[Draper]

Originally Posted by SpeedyATL

In socialism you have extremes of haves and have-nots caused by limited supply and rampant inflation. What we are seeing here is not capitalism, its a glimpse of where we might be headed.

Supply and demand is literally capitalism 101.

[Vishal50028]

Originally Posted by SpeedyATL

And you have a knack for reading whats not there.

This thread is about a 15k markup and crazy dealer market adjustments in the current economic environment. One comment referred to capitalism possibly being the issue and i pointed to the chip shortage, covid, inflation and out of control govt sspending and gave my opinion that it was not capitalism to blame.

If you don't see a link there then just don't read my comments going forward as i actually try to put some real thought into many of my responses in the forums i participate in.

You also made a cute lil comment about heading towards socialism. That's not even true unless you listen to certain boogeymen who spout bs instead of truth.

[SpeedyATL]

Originally Posted by Draper

Supply and demand is literally capitalism 101.

Actually, I think this is more short term Opportunism by dealers taking advantage of what I hope is a short term shock to the market (covid, chip shortage, etc). Not saying I blame them or agree with them, just making a point.

[SpeedyATL]

Originally Posted by Vishal50028

That's not even true unless you listen to certain boogeymen who spout bs instead of truth.

One person's truth is another person's BS (to use your terms). That's the beautiful thing about this and other free countries, we are able to believe what we choose to believe. And in the end, none of it really matters as we're all just visiting this place....

PS - I'd love to know which "boogeymen" you think I listen to....Please DM me a list for laughs. Might as well send me a list of your truth talkers as well.

PSS - Still waiting for my list....very curious to see whom I should start listening to make sure I'm getting the truth and nothing but the truth.

[barryc365]

Originally Posted by SpeedyATL

Actually, I think this is more short term Opportunism by dealers taking advantage of what I hope is a short term shock to the market (covid, chip shortage, etc). Not saying I blame them or agree with them, just making a point.

Opportunism might be a bit strong. From what I've heard, most dealers don't like
This situation. They would rather have a lot more cars available to sell. I think the mark ups are required for them to cover their fixed costs.

If you think about it, they're actual sales volume has to be way down so they need to try and make up for it with adjustments.

[SpeedyATL]

Originally Posted by barryc365

Opportunism might be a bit strong. From what I've heard, most dealers don't like
This situation. They would rather have a lot more cars available to sell. I think the mark ups are required for them to cover their fixed costs.

If you think about it, they're actual sales volume has to be way down so they need to try and make up for it with adjustments.

Hey Barry,

I think BMW-only sales are actually up close to 20% over 2020 and pretty much flat with 2019. One of my local dealer's CAs told me their dealership numbers are way up over 2019 (not just 2020) and they are selling everything at MSRP. So they are killing it. But, that might not be the case in smaller markets as ATL is a fairly large market for BMW (5 dealers + 2-3 more more within 2 hours or so).

[adr_M3]

During my quest for a G80 allocation I noticed that all of the dealers that had ADMs also had lamentable customer service. Virtually all of the CAs I spoke to were either disinterested or in the worst cases ill-mannered and rude. My guess is that if they're able to sell vehicles at a high margin there's not point in trying so hard.

[osteome]

Originally Posted by Draper

Plus 4.5% 😉

Judging by the first service tag coming out of Weiden Germany, this is a military sales car purchased in the Grafenwhoer/Vilseck area. The owner presumably moved to Fort Gordon, GA.

The same dealer serviced my US spec E93 M3 when I bought it in 2009 and was stationed in the area.

The seller will do well, considering that military sales is a fixed 10% off MSRP for all models.

That fixed discount made it easier for me to order my 2022 'vert....

[barryc365]

Originally Posted by SpeedyATL

Hey Barry,

I think BMW-only sales are actually up close to 20% over 2020 and pretty much flat with 2019. One of my local dealer's CAs told me their dealership numbers are way up over 2019 (not just 2020) and they are selling everything at MSRP. So they are killing it. But, that might not be the case in smaller markets as ATL is a fairly large market for BMW (5 dealers + 2-3 more more within 2 hours or so).

2020 was a bad year though because of lock downs so it was a below average year I would have thought

Interesting though re 2019, would love to see the data on this to know what the volume has been like and if they are actually being opportunistic or just making up for a lack of inventory

[SpeedyATL]

There's a bigger thread on this somewhere, but here are the 2021 unit sales figures for BMW and Mini vs 2020 and 2019.

https://g29.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1890202

[ARMYG80]

Originally Posted by Likeanowl

If some dealership told me to pay a 25k markup on this car I’d tell them to suck my balls and buy a Porsche.

Porsche also has mark up lol

[razman]

Originally Posted by SpeedyATL

Hey Barry,

I think BMW-only sales are actually up close to 20% over 2020 and pretty much flat with 2019. One of my local dealer's CAs told me their dealership numbers are way up over 2019 (not just 2020) and they are selling everything at MSRP. So they are killing it. But, that might not be the case in smaller markets as ATL is a fairly large market for BMW (5 dealers + 2-3 more more within 2 hours or so).

This is true across the board. Not only did BMW have a record breaking number of car sales in 2021 over 2020 and 2019, the M division especially has been crushing it. In 2019, 139k M cars were sold. In 2020, 144k. In 2021, 163k! So the market adjustments we're seeing at dealerships is not at all about a sudden drop in the supply of chips and CIDs at the factory because BMW is making and selling more cars (and M cars) than it ever has.

What the market adjustments are really a reflection of instead is overwhelming demand. Everyone should ask themselves a single, simple question. Are you making more money now than you ever have? Like way more than you ever have? Well guess what? You're not alone. Wages in the US are going through the roof because of the increased money supply. (As just one small example, Goldman Sachs announced today that the average compensation of its employees went from $329k in 2020 to $404k in 2021.) Wage inflation means there are more people in the US that can afford $80k cars than ever before, and those people are descending on these cars at such volumes that BMW and other luxury carmakers are having difficulty keeping up. Eventually, BMW will pump out even more M cars to meet all this increased demand (along with some modest price hikes along the way), but until then the car dealerships will be really reaping the rewards with their market adjustments.

[Spiffx]

Originally Posted by mikezmoney

Nice. Where is the car headed? Mines at the port for over a week now. Also week 1 build

I'm week 4, still on status code 150. Headed for Galveston.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by BMWnation

Ha ha, this is so true. Porsche mark up is x___ of BMW

I've heard Porsche 911 GT3 markups are now at $100-150K over MSRP. People who show up there after refusing to pay the relatively paltry BMW markups may be laughed out of the dealership. You'll still see them pointing and laughing as you drive away.

[wfydaniel]

I'm in China and I paid 25k extra in CHY which equals to 5k USD for a November allocation. Estimated delivery is May this year. We all facing the same issues globalwise

[GDBimmer]

Originally Posted by kjx

I've heard Porsche 911 GT3 markups are now at $100-150K over MSRP. People who show up there after refusing to pay the relatively paltry BMW markups may be laughed out of the dealership. You'll still see them pointing and laughing as you drive away.

The Turbo S is also going for a pretty penny, and from what I've heard build dates for custom specs are around 1.5-2 years out. McLaren is at around one year but those allocations can be had for MSRP. Crazy times.

[2022M4COMP]

Originally Posted by GDBimmer

The Turbo S is also going for a pretty penny, and from what I've heard build dates for custom specs are around 1.5-2 years out. McLaren is at around one year but those allocations can be had for MSRP. Crazy times.

And your not gonna get one over a loyal customer…

[kjx]

Originally Posted by 2022M4COMP

And your not gonna get one over a loyal customer…

This too. I went to a Porsche dealership just as all this madness was starting before placing the M4 order. Back story was a friend with a current gen 911 Carrera S was convincing me that it was better than an M4 for the money I was spending. Anyway, the wait then for that was around 6 months for a slot.

And the GT3? They "couldn't sell me one even if I wanted to buy one". They graciously sent me on my way with a couple of high quality Porsche magazines. My only upgrade from the M4 will be to a higher spec 911. And they will hopefully still have European Delivery when the time comes. So I can redo an ED some 12-14 years after my last one (with BMW).

[bhmax16]

I walked away from an M4 allocation @ MSRP over a $1k add on that the dealer wouldn't remove (StarGard). Stick to your guns. $15k is ludicrous. We as consumers have the power to bring the market back to some level of normalcy if we do our part.

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by bhmax16

I walked away from an M4 allocation @ MSRP over a $1k add on that the dealer wouldn't remove (StarGard). Stick to your guns. $15k is ludicrous. We as consumers have the power to bring the market back to some level of normalcy if we do our part.

No , we do not.

You made a huge mistake and I wouldn't be surprised if they recovered that sale easily for 5-10k over.

The issue is not with consumers, it's with production.
Dealers cannot go negative selling us cars at sticker when they barely get any allocations. It's simple.

[ARMYG80]

Originally Posted by bhmax16

I walked away from an M4 allocation @ MSRP over a $1k add on that the dealer wouldn't remove (StarGard). Stick to your guns. $15k is ludicrous. We as consumers have the power to bring the market back to some level of normalcy if we do our part.

you are wrong. it is production issue.

If you stick to your guns with expecting $1k over on M3 lol

Answer is you are not getting BMW at all. Any premium brand cars.

I just do not get that people still asking for MSRP or $1k over on M cars or any brands.

This shortage been going over an year and it will not end soon.

Wow.... wake up people!

[MMM.PWR]

Originally Posted by ARMYG80

you are wrong. it is production issue.

If you stick to your guns with expecting $1k over on M3 lol

Answer is you are not getting BMW at all. Any premium brand cars.

I just do not get that people still asking for MSRP or $1k over on M cars or any brands.

This shortage been going over an year and it will not end soon.

Wow.... wake up people!

MSRP can still be found if you look hard enough. I cancelled an order from a dealer who was charging some 2k BS package. Days later I had an actual allocation from another dealer who gave me a deal BELOW msrp.