[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by vj123

This might work in a typical market.

But in the current market, most dealers would move on to the next customer as they currently have the upper hand and are trying to take advantage on every possible way.

Agreed. But even a dealer's rejection of such a proposal, would highlight the very risk you flagged in the post which prompted my response above...namely, paying a mark-up for an allocation, to then still encounter delayed delivery.

Someone in this equation (manufacturer, dealer, and/or customer) needs to bear delivery-timing risk. It's not going to be BMW. And I agree with you that a dealer, particularly in this market, is unlikely to take on that risk either. Personally, I have no issue with that position at, or under, MSRP. Above MSRP...well that's why I personally wouldn't pay a mark-up to place an order, but I probably would have been willing to pay a mark-up had I found a perfect (or close to it) spec G80 manual on the ground at a dealer, where the only risk of timing is how quickly I can get there to sign and drive home.

[astroricardo]

Just do it, if the market changes by the time your car comes you can always back out.

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

People often forget that MSRP is the manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price. I'm not supporting dealer mark-ups, nor am I rooting against my fellow BMW M enthusiasts who in normal times could get this car with nice discounts and relatively reasonable time frames.

But clearly right now, with everything that's going on in the world, the market price of G8x cars, either custom ordered with immediate allocation, or not to customer spec but sitting on the lot somewhere, is somewhere slightly north of manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price.

As to the Camry comment, I have to laugh, because there's probably a wait for those too right now. And at least on Tacomas, I've been hearing about relatively huge (frankly, absurd) mark-ups, particularly on TRD pros.

Originally Posted by HorsePower

People often forget that MSRP is the manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price. I'm not supporting dealer mark-ups, nor am I rooting against my fellow BMW M enthusiasts who in normal times could get this car with nice discounts and relatively reasonable time frames.

But clearly right now, with everything that's going on in the world, the market price of G8x cars, either custom ordered with immediate allocation, or not to customer spec but sitting on the lot somewhere, is somewhere slightly north of manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price.

As to the Camry comment, I have to laugh, because there's probably a wait for those too right now. And at least on Tacomas, I've been hearing about relatively huge (frankly, absurd) mark-ups, particularly on TRD pros.

That was the point, Camry's literally have mark ups right now
And TRD's do have absurd mark ups.
So 5k for an M3 dream build is peanuts.

And yes in regarding to MSRP, most ( by most I mean 99% ) don't understand that dealers don't make the same money as they did a year ago.
BMW doesn't provide kickbacks anymore and so a dealer selling at MSRP is earning scraps ( I've seen their invoice prices ) combined with the fact they don't have a lot of inventory to begin with.
This is why mark ups are going to get worse not better and people have to start getting used to them.

In LA I'm already starting to see 15k mark ups for on the lot M3's , and would not be surprised if it ever reaches 25k.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by DK__LA

That was the point, Camry's literally have mark ups right now
And TRD's do have absurd mark ups.
So 5k for an M3 dream build is peanuts.

And yes in regarding to MSRP, most ( by most I mean 99% ) don't understand that dealers don't make the same money as they did a year ago.
BMW doesn't provide kickbacks anymore and so a dealer selling at MSRP is earning scraps ( I've seen their invoice prices ) combined with the fact they don't have a lot of inventory to begin with.
This is why mark ups are going to get worse not better and people have to start getting used to them.

In LA I'm already starting to see 15k mark ups for on the lot M3's , and would not be surprised if it ever reaches 25k.

Escondido is 25K!

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by gohawks23

Escondido is 25K!

Not surprised lol

[snareman]

What state is it coming from? You could go pick it up and have a nice test drive home, but you'd have to make sure you didn't run into Chicago winter with those summer tires.

[amuk]

Originally Posted by raywai2

I started as #7 at the end of September. They received 2 allocations in the first week of October and I moved to #5. Then I moved to prod on 11/1. I didn’t ask exactly how many allocations they received as I was just over the moon. I spoke to the general sales manager there and he said in a good month they get up to 5 allocations for the m3s. Also I got a feeling that not all allocations are created equal. My guess is there are preferences given to certain dealership in regards to build week delays and stop sales. My build week has never been delayed and I don’t have any stop sale. Obviously that’s anecdotal but personally I would keep my bet on Bill Jacobs if I were you.

This is really encouraging to hear. I'm currently next up for an allocation at Bill Jacob's. Started as number 4 on the list in late November.

What is your scheduled production date? Would love to know about your spec as well.

[raywai2]

Originally Posted by amuk

This is really encouraging to hear. I'm currently next up for an allocation at Bill Jacob's. Started as number 4 on the list in late November.

What is your scheduled production date? Would love to know about your spec as well.

I had build week 52 and the car finished production on 12/15. Currently it’s still sitting at port waiting for a vessel. No stop sale. The holiday delayed the shipping schedule so hopefully my car will be on a boat next week. I am going with red on red.

M3 RWD manual
Toronto Red exterior
Fiona Red interior
Carbon fiber trim
826M black wheels
Exe package
Laser lights
Shawdowline lights
Carbon bucket seats
Extended shawdowline trim

[Salespunk]

I paid $2500 markup for mine and it is the best money I have spent in a long time. You have to decide, but it is likely that BMW will start raising prices significantly at some point. 6% of $80K, which is the current inflation rate, is a lot more than $2500.

[yami sukehiro]

Originally Posted by amuk

This is really encouraging to hear. I'm currently next up for an allocation at Bill Jacob's. Started as number 4 on the list in late November.

What is your scheduled production date? Would love to know about your spec as well.

Hmm this is slightly concerning after reading the other reply. Is that after February allocations were released this month or have you not heard about any released allocations this month from your sales guy?

[HorsePower]

When the mark-ups get this crazy (I’m seeing 15-25k thrown around above), how do banks even underwrite those loans?? I wouldn’t think a bank would be willing to base LTV off of a grossly inflated purchase price. (Puts BMWFS and the dealers in an odd spot though - the dealers claiming that’s the current market price, but then if the manufacturer’s own bank won’t write the loan on the marked-up price, wouldn’t be a great look…)

[barryc365]

If this was spring / summer time and I would actually use the car I would probably suck it up and pay the $2500 to drive the car now but in the depth of winter in the North East I'm not so sure. Maybe

I bought mine 6 months ago when there was guys talking about 'waiting it out' and waiting for the deals to come flooding in when the market corrects…look How that worked out!

Personally I would be inclined to just get it done. $2500 is probably 3% of the value and not significant over the life of the car. Yes the principle is not great but shipping costs, wages and materials etc are all effected. The whole supply chain is getting squeezed so I think $2500 is a small enough premium to pay in this market. I wouldn't go higher tho personally I think

[amuk]

Originally Posted by avisaxena33

Hmm this is slightly concerning after reading the other reply. Is that after February allocations were released this month or have you not heard about any released allocations this month from your sales guy?

I believe December allocations were already spoken for when I put my order in at the end of November. My guess is the four customers ahead of me got the January allocations when they were released in December.

The hope is they get more m3 allocations for February this month. I don't think those have been released yet.

[yami sukehiro]

Originally Posted by amuk

I believe December allocations were already spoken for when I put my order in at the end of November. My guess is the four customers ahead of me got the January allocations when they were released in December.

The hope is they get more m3 allocations for February this month. I don't think those have been released yet.

Cool, lmk if you hear about feb allocations in case I don't hear from my sales guy!

[Murse85]

Originally Posted by avisaxena33

Am I crazy for hesitating on doing an out of state deal with a negotiated 2500 markup for a m3 allocation? Currently I'm on a local dealer waitlist at #6. Wanted to get some opinions. My biggest issue with it is that they won't cover shipping and its like a 12 hour drive which I'm not going to do (maybe). There is also a 399 etching fee ... sigh

if they have it def do it. 2500 is nothing. Even toyota corollas are going for 2000 markup. I would just use the blue painters tape and tape the whole front end for the drive back home if worried about rock chips. If you are on #6 waitlist you won't get your car till the end of this year or next year.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by Murse85

If you are on #6 waitlist you won't get your car till the end of this year or next year.

If you follow the thread, people have moved 5 spots in a month to get an allocation with a high volume M dealer. OP has a possibility to move up the ladder quick with the same dealer and might not wait for 6 months or a year.

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

When the mark-ups get this crazy (I’m seeing 15-25k thrown around above), how do banks even underwrite those loans?? I wouldn’t think a bank would be willing to base LTV off of a grossly inflated purchase price. (Puts BMWFS and the dealers in an odd spot though - the dealers claiming that’s the current market price, but then if the manufacturer’s own bank won’t write the loan on the marked-up price, wouldn’t be a great look…)

They'll ask for larger down payments. On the flip side with car values holding or even climbing in some cases, there's little increased risk to them in the near term.

[evanescent03]

I just paid $2k markup for a lowly Civic Si. I'm struggling to find a Yukon at MSRP when I've gotten most of my GMC stuff $6-8k below sticker… I'm on a waitlist for M3 and Z06 both at sticker but I'm in a relatively small town and allocations are sparse.

I was offered a GT3 allocation for $50k over sticker.. they apparently got $30k over for it from someone.

All this to say: you're not alone. Market is a mess, but do what you feel is right bc opportitnies to get the car you want may be few and far between

[Vishal50028]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

I just paid $2k markup for a lowly Civic Si. I'm struggling to find a Yukon at MSRP when I've gotten most of my GMC stuff $6-8k below sticker… I'm on a waitlist for M3 and Z06 both at sticker but I'm in a relatively small town and allocations are sparse.

I was offered a GT3 allocation for $50k over sticker.. they apparently got $30k over for it from someone.

All this to say: you're not alone. Market is a mess, but do what you feel is right bc opportitnies to get the car you want may be few and far between

Dam. That's a lot of cars lol

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

They'll ask for larger down payments. On the flip side with car values holding or even climbing in some cases, there's little increased risk to them in the near term.

Thanks. For the average 60 month loan, even if the market doesn’t correct for another year or two (or three), have to think that plenty of people financing highly marked-up cars will be underwater when the itch to sell/trade comes. I remember hearing somewhere that the average car loan in the US is 60ish months, but the average length of time before people sell/trade financed cars is closer to 30ish months (although I can’t recall where I read/heard that).

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

Thanks. For the average 60 month loan, even if the market doesn’t correct for another year or two (or three), have to think that plenty of people financing highly marked-up cars will be underwater when the itch to sell/trade comes. I remember hearing somewhere that the average car loan in the US is 60ish months, but the average length of time before people sell/trade financed cars is closer to 30ish months (although I can’t recall where I read/heard that).

I also thought the same , but where the market is heading , I doubt they will be underwater.
Car prices won't magically go down anytime soon.

Finance rates just went to 3.9% for 72 months.
I think a 2k-3k price spike is coming shortly for the G8X's too in the US , it's only downhill from here :

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by DK__LA

I also thought the same , but where the market is heading , I doubt they will be underwater.
Car prices won't magically go down anytime soon.

Finance rates just went to 3.9% for 72 months.
I think a 2k-3k price spike is coming shortly for the G8X's too in the US , it's only downhill from here :

I agree that I think actual MSRP price hikes are coming, and interest rates definitely seem to be going up. But I can't agree with your first paragraph. I think as soon as supply-chain issues resolve and cars are more readily available new (either on the lot, or to be ordered and delivered within reasonable time frames), the used pricing will plummet back to typical levels (albeit in relation to higher new pricing, so that will help a bit), while the new pricing stays increased.

Things never seem to come back down (in terms of MSRP). Watch collectors who were active at the time, tell me that when gold spiked in 1980, gold watch prices soared (MSRP, and used). Gold, of course, came way back down, for decades, but the MSRPricing never moved back down accordingly. I think we'll see the same thing with new cars...