[evoi19]

15k is crazy!

I'm definitely grateful to have no markup and sold at MSRP. Was 3rd on the waitlist but got a production number 2 weeks later. 2.5 months from production to delivery.

If you're in norcal, you can try the dealer I went to. Not sure what the wait list is but PM me if you were looking to order.

[bhmax16]

Originally Posted by ARMYG80

you are wrong. it is production issue.

If you stick to your guns with expecting $1k over on M3 lol

Answer is you are not getting BMW at all. Any premium brand cars.

I just do not get that people still asking for MSRP or $1k over on M cars or any brands.

This shortage been going over an year and it will not end soon.

Wow.... wake up people!

I did not say there was not a production issue, so no, I'm not wrong. We all know there are issues with supply chain. That still doesn't change the fact that we can help drop prices if we as consumers reduce the demand. Dealers can only command a price that consumers are willing to pay, otherwise they do not sell vehicles and must drop prices to move inventory. Demand is still part of the equation regardless of the current environment and we control that variable.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by bhmax16

I walked away from an M4 allocation @ MSRP over a $1k add on that the dealer wouldn't remove (StarGard). Stick to your guns. $15k is ludicrous. We as consumers have the power to bring the market back to some level of normalcy if we do our part.

If BMW bumps up MSRP like other OEMs, you might see a price hike more than that.

MY22 base price was hiked by $1k and other models by $200 this month. I wouldnt be surprised if there is a significant bump for MY23 or a small one even before that.

[bhmax16]

Originally Posted by DK__LA

No , we do not.

You made a huge mistake and I wouldn't be surprised if they recovered that sale easily for 5-10k over.

The issue is not with consumers, it's with production.
Dealers cannot go negative selling us cars at sticker when they barely get any allocations. It's simple.

"Huge mistake" lol not a chance. Plenty of dealers still selling at MSRP and not forcing you to pay for add ons. The M4 is nowhere near the demand of the M3 either. They were already sitting on the allocation for 2 weeks with no bites. Oh, and this particular dealer said they would remove the charge but changed their story when I asked for that in writing. I don't do business with the lying, the deceptive, or the shady.

I don't know about you, but I don't want an aftermarket GPS tracker on my $85k+ vehicle. They lost a sale because they wouldn't wave the add on. I don't need the car now or ever, so I walked. I could care less if others are willing to pay $5k-$10k above, it's still idiotic and I won't partake in that. I'd rather pick up an Emira next year for that kind of money.

We all know there is a production issue, I never said there was not, but that's only one variable. Dealers make far more money in the service department than the sales department and a dealership can stay afloat on service alone. If consumers stop paying stupid high prices dealers are forced to drop prices to move inventory regardless of what disruptions happen on the production side. But hey, you do you.

[yami sukehiro]

Yeah it's definitely not hard to find a MSRP dealer assuming you're fine with waiting. I've probably contacted approximately 50 dealers and only 3-4 had a guaranteed allocation with an over MSRP price + another 4-5 dealers that had no allocation and were still asking for above sticker.

[ARMYG80]

Originally Posted by MMM.PWR

MSRP can still be found if you look hard enough. I cancelled an order from a dealer who was charging some 2k BS package. Days later I had an actual allocation from another dealer who gave me a deal BELOW msrp.

wait til you are walking into the dealership and order vehicle. most of dealer will tell ppl that will do below msrp on M cars or regular cars...
They are try to get you in. Because they can not sell the vehicle without customer in the dealership.
Then they will tell you, dealer aftermarket add ons or mark up.

Wherever you got that quote below MSRP, Good Luck!

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by MMM.PWR

MSRP can still be found if you look hard enough. I cancelled an order from a dealer who was charging some 2k BS package. Days later I had an actual allocation from another dealer who gave me a deal BELOW msrp.

Yea I can find MSRP deals right now too even in Cali , with a 12 person waitlist.

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by bhmax16

I did not say there was not a production issue, so no, I'm not wrong. We all know there are issues with supply chain. That still doesn't change the fact that we can help drop prices if we as consumers reduce the demand. Dealers can only command a price that consumers are willing to pay, otherwise they do not sell vehicles and must drop prices to move inventory. Demand is still part of the equation regardless of the current environment and we control that variable.

Again, we do not control anything lol:

Supply & Demand


As long as there are supply chain issues and constant delays , dealers will up charge and consumers will pay because of limited supply.
The few remaining MSRP deals will soon vanish and 25K ADM will be the new normal nationwide very soon.

Your logic only applies when supply is high and demand is low , that's how I was able to get 12K off on a brand new 18' LCI F82 in 2017.
I also don't believe in paying over sticker , shit I don't even know what it's like to pay anything over BELOW INVOICE until I ordered a G80 but in these times , things are different.

[bhmax16]

Originally Posted by DK__LA

Again, we do not control anything lol:

Supply & Demand


As long as there are supply chain issues and constant delays , dealers will up charge and consumers will pay because of limited supply.
The few remaining MSRP deals will soon vanish and 25K ADM will be the new normal nationwide very soon.

Your logic only applies when supply is high and demand is low , that's how I was able to get 12K off on a brand new 18' LCI F82 in 2017.
I also don't believe in paying over sticker , shit I don't even know what it's like to pay anything over BELOW INVOICE until I ordered a G80 but in these times , things are different.

But the consumer drives the demand. Specifically, demand is the willingness of we as consumers to purchase goods under current market conditions. That logic still applies here. Sure demand right now is high, but it doesn't need to be. We don't all need to be buying cars, especially M cars which are a luxury, at the current asking prices of price gouging dealers. Several of us simply have more money than brains, thus here we are.

I really walked away from my deal over principle. It wasn't the fact that it would have effectively been $1k over sticker, I could have lived with that given the current market conditions. It was the fact this dealer lied about "removing it when I take delivery of the vehicle" then backtracking when I asked for that in writing. They would have been better not to list the add on as a line item in my quote at all and just rolled it in as a $1k market adjustment. I would have bought the car had that been the case. But including StarGard as a mandatory add on because it is "installed on every vehicle we sell" and my knowing the true motive is so they can track the vehicle if they need to repossess it just rubbed me the wrong way. I found it borderline offensive.

We as BMW owners deserve better treatment and should not tolerate bait and switch tactics. The ownership experience is about more than just the car, the service and overall treatment of customers is just as important as the driving experience.

[wfydaniel]

Originally Posted by DK__LA

Yea I can find MSRP deals right now too even in Cali , with a 12 person waitlist.

you're right, and dealers just use MSRP as an excuse to collect your deposit. who knows how long you will wait until you are granted with an allocation. it's all empty and invalid promises.

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by wfydaniel

you're right, and dealers just use MSRP as an excuse to collect your deposit. who knows how long you will wait until you are granted with an allocation. it's all empty and invalid promises.

Yup 100% all BS

I hopped on an allocation which was days away from flipping to 150 end of Dec , and even that just got delayed till god knows when.

So I can only imagine the wait to even get an allocation.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Just walk away. You don't need this car bad enough to be ripped off with big markups.

[mikezmoney]

Absolutely everything is marked up in this market. Get used to it. It's inflation and it will never go away. We say the price is high but in 5-10 years this will be considered low. Times are changing as must the way we think.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by mikezmoney

Absolutely everything is marked up in this market. Get used to it. It's inflation and it will never go away. We say the price is high but in 5-10 years this will be considered low. Times are changing as must the way we think.

Its bad. But if you think it's that bad then you should be buying a Honda

[mikezmoney]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Its bad. But if you think it's that bad then you should be buying a Honda

Oh I don't think it's bad at all. It's the norm. I'm paying a markup and totally understand why.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ARMYG80

you are wrong. it is production issue.

If you stick to your guns with expecting $1k over on M3 lol

Answer is you are not getting BMW at all. Any premium brand cars.

I just do not get that people still asking for MSRP or $1k over on M cars or any brands.

This shortage been going over an year and it will not end soon.

Wow.... wake up people!

We get hurricanes from time to time in Florida. When that happens supplies of essentials become more difficult to get. Perishable foods and ice to name a couple. In the late 1980s and early 90s there were vendors that took advantage of this and seriously marked up these products taking advantage of desperate people so the states had to pass laws to stop this. Obviously buying a luxury car is different than a bag of ice when you have no electricity for two months however I personally will remember every dealership that has done this and never do business with them again. It’s my personal choice. It may be the temporary new normal but that doesn’t mean it’s not unethical.

[barryc365]

Originally Posted by bhmax16

"Huge mistake" lol not a chance. Plenty of dealers still selling at MSRP and not forcing you to pay for add ons. The M4 is nowhere near the demand of the M3 either. They were already sitting on the allocation for 2 weeks with no bites. Oh, and this particular dealer said they would remove the charge but changed their story when I asked for that in writing. I don't do business with the lying, the deceptive, or the shady.

I don't know about you, but I don't want an aftermarket GPS tracker on my $85k+ vehicle. They lost a sale because they wouldn't wave the add on. I don't need the car now or ever, so I walked. I could care less if others are willing to pay $5k-$10k above, it's still idiotic and I won't partake in that. I'd rather pick up an Emira next year for that kind of money.

We all know there is a production issue, I never said there was not, but that's only one variable. Dealers make far more money in the service department than the sales department and a dealership can stay afloat on service alone. If consumers stop paying stupid high prices dealers are forced to drop prices to move inventory regardless of what disruptions happen on the production side. But hey, you do you.

I agree with you on principle about not paying a mark
Up, I would be of the same mindset, you may just have to wait in line a little Bit which is fine

It was noted in this thread that BMW are selling more M cars than ever, so it isn't a chip shortage issue it seems. It's more like demand is just outstripping supply. The world is awash with money, liquidity and cheap credit

M division sales in 2021 were higher than 2019 so they are moving volume, it's just demand is crazy and people have the money to try skip the line and some are willing to pay that mark up to get the car now rather than wait

[Spiewakov]

BMW dealership in Long Island, NY is asking for 20k over MSRP if you live in long island and 30k over msrp if you live out of the area. LOL

[GGG333]

Originally Posted by cspiewak

BMW dealership in Long Island, NY is asking for 20k over MSRP if you live in long island and 30k over msrp if you live out of the area. LOL

I think the highest in Cali is 25k in San Diego.

[Race_Doc11]

I completely agree. I’d rather walk than surrendering my money this way. My dealer reached out to me to buy my car and get me a new M3 by June without any markups but I declined. Simply why the rush.

Originally Posted by barryc365

I agree with you on principle about not paying a mark
Up, I would be of the same mindset, you may just have to wait in line a little Bit which is fine

It was noted in this thread that BMW are selling more M cars than ever, so it isn't a chip shortage issue it seems. It's more like demand is just outstripping supply. The world is awash with money, liquidity and cheap credit

M division sales in 2021 were higher than 2019 so they are moving volume, it's just demand is crazy and people have the money to try skip the line and some are willing to pay that mark up to get the car now rather than wait

[wfydaniel]

Originally Posted by DK__LA

Yup 100% all BS

I hopped on an allocation which was days away from flipping to 150 end of Dec , and even that just got delayed till god knows when.

So I can only imagine the wait to even get an allocation.

Same here, I'm telling myself I'm just paying extra to stay ahead of time, bidding on uncertain preconditions is not a good move considering what's going on in the world.

[ARMYG80]

Originally Posted by bhmax16

I did not say there was not a production issue, so no, I'm not wrong. We all know there are issues with supply chain. That still doesn't change the fact that we can help drop prices if we as consumers reduce the demand. Dealers can only command a price that consumers are willing to pay, otherwise they do not sell vehicles and must drop prices to move inventory. Demand is still part of the equation regardless of the current environment and we control that variable.

There are millions people shopping cars. Somebody will buy it. Dealers are not stupid. Just wait til market gets back to normal. I do not know, when it will be...