[codestar]

As a current 6MT 435i xdrive owner looking to upgrade to the new m4, I'm now torn between a base model to keep the stick or go auto to keep xdrive and have all of the comp bits included...

Sad

[Wills2]

I wonder where the additional torque comes in compared the current X3M, 479 vs 442, will be interested to see the graph curve.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Difference is around 0.1 sec for downshifts. That's big enough difference for drivers to notice when they are driving fast. With ZF8, you request a downshift and the car does not respond for a split second (while also losing boost being a turbo car). In 10 corners and you already lose 1 sec from shifting time alone.

ZF8 is not only slow but also inconsistent in shifting especially on downshifts, because the gearbox hates to rev high. This combined with a high revving engine is just pure bottlenecking introduced by our magnanimous BMW accountants who seek to offer a comfortable, slow shift on a so-called ///Motorsport 3.

If you downshift while accelerating you’re driving style is already so slow that the 0.1s is the least of your problems

[Wills2]

Those that are worried about the ZF replacing the DCT, I wouldn't. The M tuning on it makes it far more alert and sporty in its reactions compared to the standard versions in the non M cars.

I went MDCT (F80) - ZF8 (G11) - ZF8 (X3M) and the M version is much more like the DCT, they have aped the qualities of the DCT where they can, it's very good.

Of course you don't get the same thump in the back at WOT in S3 but that was mostly annoying and broke traction on imperfect roads and it goes into reverse quickly when you're doing a 3 point turn so that's good.

[Germanauto]

Somebody brought up a plausible theory that since the MT will only be available on lower-spec cars, the take rate will be extremely low and therefore, BMW will have the perfect excuse to kill it off.

Dealers don't want to sell stripper models, they want to sell more expensive models that have more features and power. I wouldn't be surprised if more sticks are special-order cars to an increasingly smaller group of die hard enthusiasts. Drive around LA and you'll notice that a fair proportion of M3/4 buyers, if not the majority, are not enthusiasts.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by codestar

As a current 6MT 435i xdrive owner looking to upgrade to the new m4, I'm now torn between a base model to keep the stick or go auto to keep xdrive and have all of the comp bits included...

Sad

Manual will be much lighter, 8AT is going to have a weight penalty significant enough, that the manual might feel faster. But, I would never buy an automatic, so take my opinion as you wish.

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by Pinkoboe

We now live in a bizarre World where BMW M cars come with slush boxes and the new Kia K5 comes with a DCT.

Wierd but no surprise, they have a good guy since a few years:

—
Albert Biermann, who joined BMW in 1983, can look back on over 30 years of experience in high-performance car development. Since 2008, Biermann was Vice President of BMW M GmbH and BMW Individual

Albert Biermann was initially responsible for the development of high-performance models at Hyundai and its subsidiary brand Kia.
Since December 2018 he moved further up and is now Head of Research & Development for the whole group...
—

Some very interesting and capable cars are coming from Hyundai since then...

[JCZ5]

I may have missed this. But the biggest announcement is for the new M3/4, auto-rev matching can be disabled without turning off traction control!

I think this is newsworthy for MT lovers, which I have been told are only a handful on this forum 😂😏

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by Daaan

Wierd but no surprise, they have a good guy since a few years:

—
Albert Biermann, who joined BMW in 1983, can look back on over 30 years of experience in high-performance car development. Since 2008, Biermann was Vice President of BMW M GmbH and BMW Individual

Albert Biermann was initially responsible for the development of high-performance models at Hyundai and its subsidiary brand Kia.
Since December 2018 he moved further up and is now Head of Research & Development for the whole group...
—

Some very interesting and capable cars are coming from Hyundai since then...

It's unfair to compare transverse automatics to longitudinal automatics. Longitudinal automatics are really good right now. Transverse ones are really bad. That's why almost all performance oriented transverse cars like the Civic Si/Type R, GTI, Focus ST/RS, Veloster N, etc. come either with manual trans only or DCT. Very few hot hatches and performance FWD cars will have a torque converted automatic.

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

It's unfair to compare transverse automatics to longitudinal automatics. Longitudinal automatics are really good right now. Transverse ones are really bad. That's why almost all performance oriented transverse cars like the Civic Si/Type R, GTI, Focus ST/RS, Veloster N, etc. come either with manual trans only or DCT. Very few hot hatches and performance FWD cars will have a torque converted automatic.

I agree with you that they are good, I had one before DCT, but I personally think that DCT just fits especially an M car better from a personal feeling and experience.

But I mainly wanted to point out what Hyundai is doing with their „N" cars since Biermann moved over from BMW M.
Pretty cool direction they are going there with the cars and options they offer, and DCT is just one of the good things...

[Imola3]

I'm so ready for this!

[SYT_Shadow]

Pretty exciting.

We'll get the 6MT RWD, a 8sp RWD ZCP and a 8sp AWD ZCP. I was concerned they'd keep the 8sp+ZCP for the AWD version.

It'll be interesting to see what they each weigh and what weight gain they have vs the F8X generation.

I have sub zero levels of interest for the AWD so I'm happy they've made that completely optional.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

I wonder what will be the manual take rate. I assume most people will go for the competition model as it's the top tier model. And a good chunk of buyers will not be hardcore enthusiasts, unlike people on this forum.

..I'm guessing this generation will be the last manual M4. So happy at least one version of the 4-series coupe will have a 6MT even if one needs to step up to the M4 from the M440i to enjoy that connection..

While i'd definitely notice the AWD I do not know if the HP boost is something a person not tracking the car would notice?

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

BMW, please do not give us the same steering wheel as every other model in the BMW range - This is an M car not a 3 series M sport. It looks way too chunky and not very inspiring in my opinion....

Is BMW potentially too tight with money to not give us differentiation in the model line up, M8 for example has the same steering wheel as the 3 series. M customers are spending so much more money than the average Joe, give us what we pay for

Edit - The cost of the massive grill could've been used to change the interior up a bit

You have to consider that the entire point of adding the dumbed down M steering wheel to "regular" M Sport cars is to justify the M Sport badging. M Sport cars are just the regular cars with a body kit and sport suspension. They've got to put something on there to justify the "upgrade". A steering wheel is nothing. The true M cars are differentiated by having unique suspension geometry, completely new sheetmetal (a huge one here), unique wheels, unique seats, unique upholstery, unique colors, unique gauge cluster, unique powertrain, unique differential, and even unique badging. Are you really that bothered that the M Sport cars borrow the steering wheel? Even then, the steering wheel isn't identical. The trim is different and you get those fancy red buttons. Surely you like those red buttons.

[AlejoEvo]

Originally Posted by GregM4

I love the current F82 Competition, love the shape, classic BMW. I am also not a huge fan of the digital dash, but that's just me and understand why other like it.

I know we've all not seen the new M3/M4 yet in all its glory, only teasers and renders, but apart from the AWD being added, I really think I will keep the current F82 and get a Tune on the current M4 to produce the same power and wait for the LCI version.

If BMW make a design mistake here, or even a slight mistake, I think they will correct it on the LCI update. If so, then for me that is the time to buy. Saying that I must expose that I always wait for the LCI version, right or wrong!

By the way not hanging anything on the current M3, i love that too, I just don't have any kids, so only the wife and I, so Love Coupes!

Really look forward to hearing thoughts on this.

I'm on the same line of thought. I'll keep my F80 and wait for the LCI and then move to the G80.

I'm liking what they're doing performance wise, and waiting for the MXdrive version I easy for me, the G80 Comp will be a beast!

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by tareemaa

The rwd version will be enticing if it puts the power down better than the F80. The new m5 is so much faster than the f10 due to their awd, the motor is essentially the same between the two, the awd makes all the difference at these power levels. The G80 will be a beast in awd, BUT I'm gonna be crazy torn between the awd or the manual trans. Comp pack, awd, manual trans... THAT would be beast.

One can only wish that they are waiting to release manual on the awd car and will do so if they see a strong take rate on the manual in rwd guise.

... have there been any rumors of a 6MT-AWD paring? I think the same 6Mt-engine as the M2, ... I may be mistaken but the 6MT has had no paring with the AWD system.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by swagon

They will never make 50% manuals, there are not enough buyers.

The take rate of the manual gearbox is still kinda significant in certain markets such as the USA, though. If it wasn't for Americans, I suspect there would be no manual in BMW M cars and Porsches, for example.

F80 M3 6MT take rate was 19.4% worldwide; of those 5,426 6MT cars ever built were 4,548 sold in the USA alone (84%).

I suspect the numbers for this generation are going to be slightly lower as AWD now being available will sway some people over to the auto-only Competition model. .......

Thanks for those stats.... It's a luxury and fantastic to have the opportunity to get a performance coupe in a 6MT new from BMW as the analogue fades... is the 992S the next step up in a "coupe" form with a 6MT? I humbly would need to stretch to go that far in cost. ...just a joy in the 6MT for connection alone, even if there is a faster way to shift and ease of autonomy features elsewhere.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by TheStanman

It wasn't that long ago that that's exactly what M represented. Paying a premium for bespoke engines and transmissions. Now we still pay the M premium but don't get a unique product

Certainly saves BMW money though.

The times have changed and so has the cost to develop. Just like every M car before we will all hate it at first but as the generation passes we will look back and smile. Say BMW did a good job

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by solstice

I miss Honda as they used to be. Now they are just just a moldy shell with a sea of uninspiring offerings below the excellent but pricey NSX.

...hear hear... I wish I kept a couple 1995 6MT Si Preludes pampered in a garage... loved that car.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Difference is around 0.1 sec for downshifts. That's big enough difference for drivers to notice when they are driving fast. With ZF8, you request a downshift and the car does not respond for a split second (while also losing boost being a turbo car). In 10 corners and you already lose 1 sec from shifting time alone.

ZF8 is not only slow but also inconsistent in shifting especially on downshifts, because the gearbox hates to rev high. This combined with a high revving engine is just pure bottlenecking introduced by our magnanimous BMW accountants who seek to offer a comfortable, slow shift on a so-called ///Motorsport 3.

Those accountants are looking at the fact that in some regions auto sales are down 40-50% (never mind the sedan/coupe vs suv sales) in general so yeah we can't hate the business case mindset.

Maybe, maybe not. We won't know until we all get behind the wheel. But, I'm going to give it to BMW and the engineers as they know what they are doing and have other reasons outside of cost for the decisions they make.

The next-gen M3 may not even have an ICE motor or a transmission and will probably be a hybrid at least. So we all need to accept change and realize the cars of yesterday are gone.

Sounds like you will be getting a stick or moving onto a different brand?

[JTO24]

I feel the take rate of the manual and AWD comp will be high. I think the rwd comp auto will be a slow seller once the AWD option is introduced.

AWD comp makes more sense for me (DD in the northeast) but I'll still go rwd 6mt.

[themnmd]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

What being a fan of DCT counts as being a "purist?"

Tons of people on here rave about DCT though most of its benefits are on the track