[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

No, they don't want to get rid of manual, as they're the only manufacturer who is still sticking with manuals. And I'm pretty sure it's not profitable to offer manual for a dozen people in US... They don't need to lower the demand to blame the demand, as the demand is already non existent.

So there is no demand, no profit, very few additional sales, and they're still offering it. But Internet has to be toxic and cynical. 'They're plotting a conspiracy'. Sure.

+1!

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

The DCT that BMW uses is limited ( If memory serves me correct the Getrag was limited for around 516ft lbs), the ZF auto (depending on which version they are using has a max of 737) has higher max torque limits from the factory before you need to reinforce it. That is what my point was.

Surely it's just a matter of BMW putting in stronger clutch packs.
There are BMW DCTs holding nearly 1000 ft-lbs at the wheels with aftermarket clutch packs.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Surely it's just a matter of BMW putting in stronger clutch packs.
There are BMW DCTs holding nearly 1000 ft-lbs at the wheels with aftermarket clutch packs.

No point in crying over spilled milk; the DCT in BMWs is as gone as SMG of the past and is never coming back.

After the the G-Generation, 90% of all BMWs will then be all electric, so even the manual transmission will then become extinct..

It's tragic but you can't stop progress.. Just enjoy it while it lasts.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Surely it's just a matter of BMW putting in stronger clutch packs.
There are BMW DCTs holding nearly 1000 ft-lbs at the wheels with aftermarket clutch packs.

Could be but I bet it's bigger than that, the DCT that's in the F80 dates back to 2008 so who knows.

Brace for change and let's see what the end result is. They (BMW) have a lot of smart people behind the scenes. This time next year we will know if the ZF sucks and if so how bad.

[Ftpohyeah]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

No, they don't want to get rid of manual, as they're the only manufacturer who is still sticking with manuals. And I'm pretty sure it's not profitable to offer manual for a dozen people in US... They don't need to lower the demand to blame the demand, as the demand is already non existent.

So there is no demand, no profit, very few additional sales, and they're still offering it. But Internet has to be toxic and cynical. 'They're plotting a conspiracy'. Sure.

Yeah we 6 spd drivers really are the last of the mohicans... more people went electric than 3 pedals! I actually see that as a good thing. People care

I dont even know why i want a manual. I love the quickshift on my motorcycle. Maybe just to be different from most or some weird nostalgic thing im not ready to let go of it yet.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Could be but I bet it's bigger than that, the DCT that's in the F80 dates back to 2008 so who knows.

Brace for change and let's see what the end result is. They (BMW) have a lot of smart people behind the scenes. This time next year we will know if the ZF sucks and if so how bad.

Yes I look forward to the reviews of the new M3 and M4 especially with the ZF transmission. The potential M4 CSL could be interesting if it is not overpriced.

[Bumpinjeep]

I can't think of any 6 speed AWD performance cars on the market. i think BMW really missed an opportunity. I also think not having a 6 speed Comp model is really dumb too. Not really building excitement for the brand.

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I can't think of any 6 speed AWD performance cars on the market. i think BMW really missed an opportunity. I also think not having a 6 speed Comp model is really dumb too. Not really building excitement for the brand.

+1000

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I can't think of any 6 speed AWD performance cars on the market. i think BMW really missed an opportunity. I also think not having a 6 speed Comp model is really dumb too. Not really building excitement for the brand.

Only one that comes to mind is the 911, and that requires a large $100k+ payment. Other than that there are a few hot hatches with AWD+Manual but not really "performance" vehicles.

I 100% agree BMW, the king of filling in niches and then some more, should have filled that niche. I just feel that with AWD available this will likely convert more past manual buyers, especially since everyone only cares about 0-60 times rather than steering feel or driving engagement.

[Colinv6]

I’d go AWD manual for sure! What a beast that thing would be!

[Colinv6]

The worrying thing with BMW is you never know with the million editions they bring out, they may well offer it in the future. Shafting any early buyers.

[Ftpohyeah]

I need the m3! There is still a chance that i go with the m2c though but the new engine and those CF seats are reallyyyyyyyy tempting.. the extra choices on paint color and upholstery is just icing on the cake.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Ftpohyeah

I need the m3! There is still a chance that i go with the m2c though but the new engine and those CF seats are reallyyyyyyyy tempting.. the extra choices on paint color and upholstery is just icing on the cake.

FYI, there's going to be about a $30K difference in price if you option out the M3 like that.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I can't think of any 6 speed AWD performance cars on the market. i think BMW really missed an opportunity. I also think not having a 6 speed Comp model is really dumb too. Not really building excitement for the brand.

Yes, I agree, I wanted an AWD/base with 6MT. It could have less horsepower. I will get the RWD because I am a diehard 6MT guy who has 3 kids, but an AWD would have been ideal for wintertime in Western Mountains.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

Yes, I agree, I wanted an AWD/base with 6MT. It could have less horsepower. I will get the RWD because I am a diehard 6MT guy who has 3 kids, but an AWD would have been ideal for wintertime in Western Mountains.

I, too, would've loved and AWD/6MT option. I've never owned an AWD car, so there's a bit of curiosity there for me. I wonder if they just chose not to develop one because it was easier to transplant the M5's AWD system over to the G8X and save development time.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I, too, would've loved and AWD/6MT option. I've never owned an AWD car, so there's a bit of curiosity there for me. I wonder if they just chose not to develop one because it was easier to transplant the M5's AWD system over to the G8X and save development time.

RWD is more fun to drive and feels lighter. The only reason, I want AWD, is for steep mountains and snow in winter which is an absolute blast for having fun, but for the rest of the year, RWD would be more preferable IMO.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

RWD is more fun to drive and feels lighter. The only reason, I want AWD, is for steep mountains and snow in winter which is an absolute blast for having fun, but for the rest of the year, RWD would be more preferable IMO.

I agree, which is why I'm not too upset.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I, too, would've loved and AWD/6MT option. I've never owned an AWD car, so there's a bit of curiosity there for me. I wonder if they just chose not to develop one because it was easier to transplant the M5's AWD system over to the G8X and save development time.

That's exactly what they did; rather than going back to drawing board and engineering a compatible manual/AWD setup, from scratch, they just simple dropped the same unit they had on the shelf, in all their vehicles and bridle them with software.

The M5 AWD/RWD is also the same unit in all the X M vehicles but with the RWD toggle option, electronically disabled.

Although, in theory, having the ability toggle AWD/RWD sounds cool, remember, the vehicle is now lugging around an extra 400lbs or so for the extra components. That's like walking around with skiing equipment strapped on, all year round, in case of that off chance that one day, you might end up at a skiing lodge. So to speak..

BMW basically threw us a bone by still offering a manual option, in a 2021 MY vehicle, so I'm not complaining. Which I assumed is the same manual gearbox from the F-Generation, just polished up with a bit, with a few of the marketing lingo switched around, to make it sound new.. The BMW way..

Regardless, it's better than nothing or else I was honestly headed elsewhere or maybe the used market, for my next car..

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Poochie

That's exactly what they did; rather than going back to drawing board and engineering a compatible manual/AWD setup, from scratch, they just simple dropped the same unit they had on the shelf, in all their vehicles and bridle them with software.

The M5 AWD/RWD is also the same unit in all the X M vehicles but with the RWD toggle option, electronically disabled.

Although, in theory, having the ability toggle AWD/RWD sounds cool, remember, the vehicle is now lugging around an extra 400lbs or so for the extra components. That's like walking around with skiing equipment strapped on, all year round, in case of that off chance that one day, you might end up at a skiing lodge. So to speak..

BMW basically threw us a bone by still offering a manual option, in a 2021 MY vehicle, so I'm not complaining. Which I assumed is the same manual gearbox from the F-Generation, just polished up with a bit, with a few of the marketing lingo switched around, to make it sound new.. The BMW way..

Regardless, it's better than nothing or else I was honestly headed elsewhere or maybe the used market, for my next car..

400lbs is a bit of a stretch

The last-gen M5 manual to the current-gen M5 was actually lighter with the AWD system.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...5-test-review/


"Even with the roughly 150-pound penalty of all-wheel drive, the new M5 weighs in at 4288 pounds—which sounds like a lot, but that’s 110 pounds lighter than the most recent previous-gen M5 we tested
(which had a manual) and 299 less than the E63 S. In addition to a carbon-fiber roof panel and a lithium-ion battery, the new 5-series platform uses more weight-saving aluminum than before. Fifty-one of those saved pounds are from the optional $8500 carbon-ceramic brakes, which along with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires stopped the M5 from 70 mph in a tidy 147 feet. "


Per BMW USA the curb weight of the 2020 M340i (3849lbs) vs 2020 M340xi (3968lbs)- 119lbs.

I am betting that the M3 AWD will be lighter than the M340xi and may even be in the 3700s with CC.

The F80 Comp DCT was 3662 and the F30 340i 6speed was 3686 all per Car and Driver.

The weight gained will be more than made up for with the increased power. Additionally the full "M" awd is different vs whats used in the rest of the non true M lineup.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...i-test-review/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

Karmic Man
jstein55
Sedan_Clan

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

400lbs is a bit of a stretch

You're right, 400lbs was a rough, maximum estimate, cumulatively..

I remember on the M340i, BMW touted a weight decrease because of their use of the CLAR platform, only to add it back with standard options and AWD components (link below). So who knows which direction in mass, the new M4 will sway, with mandatory features & AWD.

M340i Weight Increase https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1599263

Regardless, if you want an AWD vehicle and can live with the drawbacks, then no judgement but I lived in NorthEast and have been driving RWD, for last 15 years, without an issue.

In my humble option, unless you're off-roading, AWD is an overkill.

In my experience, RWD works just fine, with an LSD-equipped vehicle and season-appropriate tires.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Poochie

You're right, 400lbs was a rough, maximum estimate, cumulatively..

I remember on the M340i, BMW touted a weight decrease because of their use of the CLAR platform, only to add it back with standard options and AWD components (link below). So who knows which direction in mass, the new M4 will sway, with mandatory features & AWD.

M340i Weight Increase https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1599263

Regardless, if you want an AWD vehicle and can live with the drawbacks, then no judgement but I lived in NorthEast and have been driving RWD, for last 15 years, without an issue.

In my humble option, unless you're off-roading, AWD is an overkill.

In my experience, RWD works just fine, with an LSD-equipped vehicle and season-appropriate tires.

Agree --- But Bmw's tend to be be the lighter of the class set. So time will tell. People are going to freak if the new C63 is a Turbo Hybrid 4 with AWD... Worse than some are now

I agree a good set of winters and skill will win over an AWD system any day if ill-equipped. However, a well-tuned AWD system can add a lot of performance. I drove my F80 in many a winters storms. Now, I would not dare drive the F90 in RWD mode in the snow even with winters as the system is faulted to turning all aids off.

Time will tell how good the M3 AWD is vs the RWD version.

[whatnotsomuchf80]

So AWD will only be available on Competition models? When will the those arrive?