[HDMI]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

The real reason is that I had a Chevy SS. That's the Australian Holden sedan with the LS6 Corvette engine that (according to the magazines) rivals the wonderful E39 M5. I've owned three of those cars.

I think the engine LS3, same as the C5 "regular" Corvette.
LS6 is in the C5 Z06.

[HDMI]

Originally Posted by MCM4

First post here guys. Trying to ramp up my BMW knowledge.

This week, I walked into a local BMW dealer after connecting with a salesperson over the phone. I was able to sit inside a G83. I have never owned a BMW, but have been very attracted to the front end of the current generation. I asked if a deposit is refundable if I order and it is. So I gave them $1000 and ordered a new M4 Comp X in Skyscraper. The next day, I had an allocation and a production #. Apparently, I am set for Week 11.

I love the look of the BMW, and obviously it is a coupe versus a 4 door sedan (which I also prefer). My Blackwing is ordered as a 6 speed, the M4 of course auto. Every review you see on the 6MT CT5-V BW, the person driving the car cannot contain their excitement. It is so clear how enjoyable the Cadillac is to drive.

And that is my only hesitation on the M4 - is it not engaging enough? I am hoping not. No doubt the BMW interior is very appealing. The G83 seat fit me like a glove, much better than the Caddy (GM seats are oversized IMO). I give Cadillac a massive advantage on the primary driving gauges and ease at moving through driving settings. The way you can configure the driver display is awesome in the Blackwing. The M4 readout is unexciting by comparison.

The few, the proud,... Lol

[MCM4]

Apparently so! Although there do seem to be a god number of "the front end has grown on me" members here. I tend to know what I like and what I don't rather immediately (at least visually).

[playswcars]

I'd love a CT5V Blackwing manual, but GM unfortunately pulled out of the EU market due to emissions madness.

The G80 is really the only thing in its class right now. The Audis can't do what the G80 does, the AMG's can't do what the G80 does.

Apart from a GT3, nothing really comes close, save for the Blackwing(s).

[Polo08816]

The CT4-V Blackwing really needed the LT1 V8 engine in it.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by HDMI

The few, the proud,... Lol

There’s more of us than you’d think 😂. I’m sure it’s not for everyone but some people have decided they don’t like it just based on photos taken from ridiculous angles lol im never gonna lay face down in my driveway and look up at my car haha

[kassad]

[MCM4]

Looks like they answered that question rather easily. The comparison of the Tremec manual transmissions to the BMW seem universal - that there is no comparison.

[Schn3ll]

Called my local Caddy dealer on a whim and they have a CT4 BW coming in specced to $67ish (maybe a buyer dropped), and they want $10k ADM. I nearly fell out of my chair - a small Caddy sedan with a v6 for $10k over, lol. No thanks. My local Porsche dealer doesn't charge ADM, even for the new GT3 (if you don't mind waiting 4 years!)

[trey100]

I got to hear a CT4 BW in person and will say that they did a nice job of giving it a smooth growl, much nicer than my F80. Low redline as noted is unfortunate.

Interior style was "ok" but still found a lot more cheaper plastic than the new G80. So close, wish they would have just went up another notch.

The only other issues I saw was the 18" wheels look small for a car this size (same issue the ATS had) and the rear design is a let down: not sporty and just weird. Front and side profile looked good.

It's basically M2 cost for an M3 size car which seems to be their formula. My opinion is that they almost got there but fell short.

[MCM4]

I was offered an orange and black CT4-V Blackwing this week, MSRP. Car is built and awaiting transport, dealer thinks it is on lot in 1-3 weeks. I have a 5 ordered with the same dealer and remain waaaaay down the list. 6MT for 67k. It is a well priced offering, and by all accounts the driver engagement is second to none.

The looks are disappointing to me, especially the back. I'm also not a fan of the Y-shaped headlights / running lights or whatever those are. Real missed opportunities IMO. Interior, definitely a downgrade from BMW, aside from the steering wheel.

But knowing how fun the car would be to drive is very tempting.

[stevehifi]

I think they're going to be giving the CTV4Vs away.. it will probably be another flop like the ATS-V. Not because it's not a good car, but its really a niche car without the fan base of the M cars.

[VChenz]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

I think they're going to be giving the CTV4Vs away.. it will probably be another flop like the ATS-V. Not because it's not a good car, but its really a niche car without the fan base of the M cars.

Agreed. Anyone who buys a four door wants useable back seats and the ATS/CTS4 class has failed to deliver a useable back seat unless you short skinny rear seat passengers. Even then, it's still cramped regardless of who gets stuck back there. It's the same reason the IS class sedan from Lexus wasn't as popular as it should be given Toyota's reliability. Note how well the ES class done.

CTS4 will do well on the secondary market where people want cheap luxury and don't seek functionality over perceived brand clout.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

The CT4-V Blackwing really needed the LT1 V8 engine in it.

It would be pretty heavy with a V8 in the front. It already weighs the same as a G8x xDrive. It kind of gets glossed over but this is a pretty heavy RWD car.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

I think they're going to be giving the CTV4Vs away.. it will probably be another flop like the ATS-V. Not because it's not a good car, but its really a niche car without the fan base of the M cars.

yea 67k for a pretty good car is still expensive why not just shell out for the ct5v which is getting universally praised as an all time classic. ct4v is definitely in the shadow of its big brother. i was looking into ct5v blackwings while i wait forever for an M3 but the current gas prices are spooking me a bit lol

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

It would be pretty heavy with a V8 in the front. It already weighs the same as a G8x xDrive. It kind of gets glossed over but this is a pretty heavy RWD car.

I mean the CT4V is 20 pounds heavier than the G8 RWD, and its 150 lighter than the Xdrive, its not that much of a difference.

As for the engines, the LT1(425 pounds) and other LS(403 ibs for LS3) based engines are lighter than their displacement would suggest being internal cam instead of overhead(+turbo's). It really wouldn't have been a huge weight difference and it probably would have had a lower COG. I think the real reason was MPG, one of the other reasons they gave before for the ATSV being V6 was "lack of refinement" with the v8 which is kind of true but its supposed to be a sports sedan

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Towerworld

I mean the CT4V is 20 pounds heavier than the G8 RWD, and its 150 lighter than the Xdrive, its not that much of a difference.

Real life begs to differ as this is right from the latest lighting lap;

• CT4-V Blackwing, 3902 lbs
• M3C xDrive, 3917 lbs

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/

Plenty of posters with agendas here have endless praise for the Blackwings while at the same time calling the G8x overweight pigs. Reality is different though.

[strohw]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Plenty of posters with agendas here have endless praise for the Blackwings while at the same time calling the G8x overweight pigs. Reality is different though.

That feels a bit exaggerated. There are like 3 threads for BW I've seen and 2 of them mostly focus on the 5 because people like v8 manuals. So there can't be that many people pushing bias for these 2 cars.

In regards to the weight I agree that the CT4 is a bit of a porker but it is also built off a 30K car. It would have been nice if it was around 3800lbs with all options like the early Giulias. The M3 in the lightning lap has carbon buckets and brakes which save about 50lbs. This would put it pretty close to its quoted curb weight online. GM's quoted curb weight for the BW is either wrong or they used the manual to get those numbers.

Originally Posted by Towerworld

I I think the real reason was MPG, one of the other reasons they gave before for the ATSV being V6 was "lack of refinement" with the v8 which is kind of true but its supposed to be a sports sedan

I've read comments that has stated many things like it wouldn't fit, BMW does twin 6 so we should too, MPG, refinement and weight distribution of the engine itself. Realistically, I think the answer for the 4BW is that they already did the LF4 in the ATSV. So they were just looking to make improvements and not tackle an engine change out with everything else they were doing.

From a performance stand point it wouldn't matter anyway. The LT1 and the LF4 make the same amount of power which is still 60-70WHP down from what the M3c makes. So they're going to do all this work and spend all this money to drop in a V8 to give the buyer worse MPG and better sound with no other improvements. It's not like they're going to sell a lot of these cars even if they did put a v8 in them.

[blinkme323]

Local dealer has one of these in stock so I decided to stop by and take look. Really striking in person, Cadillac did a great job on it.

10k ADM though, so off to find a dealer at MSRP...

[seis-speed]

I would get one 4/5, but they do not have roof racks. The other issue: I do not need the 5’s size, but 4 might be a bit small. Really depends on the reviewer…but some say the 4 is fine others think it is too small. I think the 5 would be great for road-trips, but 4 would be more fun around town and on my local b-roads.

The number one factor for me looking at the Cadillacs is the praise for the manual, trying something new and I hate the grilles (still). I am guessing I will end up with an M3, but I am a lurker on the Cadillac boards and check weekly to see if anything is within driving distance to check it out. Really happy Cadillac made this car.

One of the best manual reviewers below

[MCM4]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

I would get one 4/5, but they do not have roof racks. The other issue: I do not need the 5’s size, but 4 might be a bit small. Really depends on the reviewer…but some say the 4 is fine others think it is too small. I think the 5 would be great for road-trips, but 4 would be more fun around town and on my local b-roads.

The number one factor for me looking at the Cadillacs is the praise for the manual, trying something new and I hate the grilles (still). I am guessing I will end up with an M3, but I am a lurker on the Cadillac boards and check weekly to see if anything is within driving distance to check it out. Really happy Cadillac made this car.

One of the best manual reviewers below

I decided to buy one as I await the M4xD. I went Week 11 > 20, and who knows what happens between now and then. I don't expect the BMW before August at this point.

I should collect my Blackwing in a few weeks. 6MT, loaded aside from carbon fiber. 69.5k versus 94k for my M4. I know the M4 will crush it in a straight line, but who cares. Not why I am interested in either one to be honest. The BMW looks sensational, it is a coupe, and the interior is outstanding. But the Blackwing is all about driving. I imagine it will get a lot more use if I keep both. I started my process 6 months ago ordering a CT5-V Blackwing, but the idea of the (2) 4s has a lot of appeal for me.

[blinkme323]

Test drove a CT4V BW yesterday and immediately put down a deposit. The MT in this thing is amazing and honestly blows anything else I've driven out of the water. I would absolutely give this an edge over the M3/M4 Pure, which is saying a lot, because I love that car.