[hellcat2m4]

Originally Posted by evidence

6MT with OTS stage 2 flex tune, catted DPs, ~E55. Clutch slipping, 100F, granny shift. 7.76s on the 60 - 130.

Have to stay under E30 to avoid slip until I can grab the PTB clutch :/

This is good!

I got these same times with e30 ots on the zf8. Fasest ive seen with OTS e30 was 7.45 in about 1800 DA.

[hotsauce_bukkake]

Originally Posted by evidence

6MT with OTS stage 2 flex tune, catted DPs, ~E55. Clutch slipping, 100F, granny shift. 7.76s on the 60 - 130.

Have to stay under E30 to avoid slip until I can grab the PTB clutch :/

Mine was just delivered yesterday and I can't wait to get it on. O/S/P config for me.

[M4Martin]

I know this thread is a few months old but I put together a side by side comparison of my car when it was stock compared to how it sits now, Stage 2: downpipes, drop in filters, Bootmod3 OTS Stage 2 flex fuel tune (ACN91 map with E38 in the tank). DA on the stock run was around 3,500ft and on the Stage 2 run it was around 4,850. Car is XDrive.

[M4Martin]

I went to the dragstrip last night. On the way to the strip i filled up with an E55 blend and I flashed an E50 tune once I got to the drag strip. It was an unorganized mess at the track and I only got 3 passes in despite going straight to the staging lanes after each run. But my first pass was 10.9, my second and third were 10.8. Im.mot sure what's going on when the car was 100% stock it ran 11.0 and when I ran it with an E38 blend and flex fuel OTS tune it ran a 10.5.

[SwankPeRFection]

If it’s not a traction problem, then you’re making less power for some reason or you’re not putting it all down because something is bleeding off torque transfer… possibly the trans. Any coding or other aftermarket flash done to that? DA is also high. What was it on these last runs.

Have you logged the car at all since going BM3. Just because it has a certain flash on it doesn’t mean it happy and running more E or higher E fuel doesn’t always mean the engine will make more power and be happy. Could simply be shit fuel and timing and even boost being dialed back which equates to less power.

[M4Martin]

The only flash or coding I have is the Bootmod3. I don't have a ton of logs and only got 1 from that night. But the boost target for the whole pass was between 20 psi and 24 psi. It only targeted 24 psi briefly. But it looks like the pre-throttle boost kept going over the target boost slightly and cutting throttle angle.

When I compare it to my flex fuel log on 10% ethanol the car targets 21 to 24 psi but it's closer to 24psi most of the time and when the pre-throttle boost goes over target boost it doesn't cut throttle angle as drastically.

I wish I had a log from running my e40ish flex fuel that I ran the 10.5 on but I didn't log it. I thought the dedicated e50 tune would run a slightly higher boost target than the flex fuel tune on 10% ethanol. But maybe it didn't because I didn't drive it around enough for the dme to give full power beforehand.

[SwankPeRFection]

You’re probably going to want to flip the map back to a stock one, run it and log it and then flash stage 1 and see how happy it is or if there’s any differences. This can be easily done almost anywhere. There is also some live logging you can watch on BM3 while driving to see if it’s pulling timing or some other stuff. Use that during normal driving to see what’s up.

And last, I just want to make sure you truly do have a physical FLEX sensor installed on the car and integrated properly… correct? I’m only asking because I’ve seen the rare instance where someone didn’t, and was trying to make things work without it and manually calculating their E content in the tank and it was always WAY off. You should be able to tell what E content you’re at at any point in terms of what the engine is seeing so you know what it should be trying to run timing wise.

[M4Martin]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

You’re probably going to want to flip the map back to a stock one, run it and log it and then flash stage 1 and see how happy it is or if there’s any differences. This can be easily done almost anywhere. There is also some live logging you can watch on BM3 while driving to see if it’s pulling timing or some other stuff. Use that during normal driving to see what’s up.

And last, I just want to make sure you truly do have a physical FLEX sensor installed on the car and integrated properly… correct? I’m only asking because I’ve seen the rare instance where someone didn’t, and was trying to make things work without it and manually calculating their E content in the tank and it was always WAY off. You should be able to tell what E content you’re at at any point in terms of what the engine is seeing so you know what it should be trying to run timing wise.

I have the bootmod3 flexfuel sensor that shows the ethanol percentage in the app and on the dash by using the cruise control switch and I'm stage 2. When I left the track I switched back to the stage 2 multimap and was able to do a log on the way home but obviously it's not as long of a pull as at the track. It doesn't look like it was pulling timing but when comparing the dedicated E50 OTS map log at the track to all my other flex fuel logs the boost target looks like it is dropping as the rpms go up. Like the target pressure starts around 22 and goes to 24psi boost target but the the target boost trails off and drops to 20psi as the rpms get closer to the shift point. On the Stage 2 ACN91 OTS Flexfuel map logs the target boost is constant at 24psi when at full throttle. I'm thinking either the flash didn't go through properly or its an issue with having to drive the car a little more so the dme learns the new flash before allowing for full power as mentioned earlier in the thread. But im going to have some friends that understand data logs better than me look it over and see what they think.

[SwankPeRFection]

FYI, you can’t just flash and go to the track and expect full power out of the new calibration. The ECU needs time to get feedback from the widebands and knock sensors for timing as well as expected torque values for the vehicle. Sure, it should give you more power off the bat in terms of an immediate baseline and you will feel this, but there are slight adjustments the ECU will do as you drive it in different conditions of acceleration and even part throttle. This takes a few drive cycles to happen. Maybe this is why you’re seeing what you’re seeing. I’d suggest driving at least a couple of days on whatever flash you wanna run at the track prior to that track day and also on the same fuel you’re going to run. Either that or wake up earlier that day and put at least 50 or so miles on it with various pulls and part throttle acceleration from full stop at a light or from a roll/passing to let it dial in a bit.

If you’re going to run the flex maps and let’s say you’re not running as high an E content as you would at the track, again, the day or night before your track event, fill it up to whatever and take it out for a long drive to let it all work up to the new content in the fuel system. Technically speaking, if it’s been at that same content before and you haven’t cleared DTCs or reflashed any maps, the learned values will already be stored for the fuel differences, so it won’t take quite as long to move its values to the new E content and do slight corrections.

Also, remember that boost is usually the first controlled value when it comes to power output whether the car is trying to limit expected torque output for whatever reason or if it’s seeing high exhaust temps or issues with det or too high intake air values. It’s also an indication of how easily the engine can breathe, both in and out. Timing corrections are used to quickly take care of knock, but the ECU will generally run less boost and the same or slightly more timing to make the same power than running more boost and using less timing. I guess what I’m saying is, also look at your timing as you change your fuel quality because that in relation to your boost should give you an indicator of what’s going on.

Also, your high DA aren’t helping matters much in terms of boost. Keep that in mind.

Also, if you wanna do a mild and fairly inexpensive trans flash, look into the CS/CSL coding for your car. Currently it’s like $229 and flashes the entire drivetrain and suspension to the factory BMW values for those cars. You should be able to get a little more response and urgency from the shifts as well as higher torque output values. I took a quick peek at your Instagram and since you seem to do a mix of street/autocross/drag, I think this would be a no-brainer cheap upgrade to help in all those areas, since it covers coding for the diffs/trans/suspension/sterring… everything you want optimized for that kind of driving. Definitely look into it if you haven’t already done it.

Oh and take out your charcoal filters if you haven’t already. Every little bit helps when your DA is that high.

[M4Martin]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

FYI, you can’t just flash and go to the track and expect full power out of the new calibration. The ECU needs time to get feedback from the widebands and knock sensors for timing as well as expected torque values for the vehicle. Sure, it should give you more power off the bat in terms of an immediate baseline and you will feel this, but there are slight adjustments the ECU will do as you drive it in different conditions of acceleration and even part throttle. This takes a few drive cycles to happen. Maybe this is why you’re seeing what you’re seeing. I’d suggest driving at least a couple of days on whatever flash you wanna run at the track prior to that track day and also on the same fuel you’re going to run. Either that or wake up earlier that day and put at least 50 or so miles on it with various pulls and part throttle acceleration from full stop at a light or from a roll/passing to let it dial in a bit.

If you’re going to run the flex maps and let’s say you’re not running as high an E content as you would at the track, again, the day or night before your track event, fill it up to whatever and take it out for a long drive to let it all work up to the new content in the fuel system. Technically speaking, if it’s been at that same content before and you haven’t cleared DTCs or reflashed any maps, the learned values will already be stored for the fuel differences, so it won’t take quite as long to move its values to the new E content and do slight corrections.

Also, remember that boost is usually the first controlled value when it comes to power output whether the car is trying to limit expected torque output for whatever reason or if it’s seeing high exhaust temps or issues with det or too high intake air values. It’s also an indication of how easily the engine can breathe, both in and out. Timing corrections are used to quickly take care of knock, but the ECU will generally run less boost and the same or slightly more timing to make the same power than running more boost and using less timing. I guess what I’m saying is, also look at your timing as you change your fuel quality because that in relation to your boost should give you an indicator of what’s going on.

Also, your high DA aren’t helping matters much in terms of boost. Keep that in mind.

Also, if you wanna do a mild and fairly inexpensive trans flash, look into the CS/CSL coding for your car. Currently it’s like $229 and flashes the entire drivetrain and suspension to the factory BMW values for those cars. You should be able to get a little more response and urgency from the shifts as well as higher torque output values. I took a quick peek at your Instagram and since you seem to do a mix of street/autocross/drag, I think this would be a no-brainer cheap upgrade to help in all those areas, since it covers coding for the diffs/trans/suspension/sterring… everything you want optimized for that kind of driving. Definitely look into it if you haven’t already done it.

Oh and take out your charcoal filters if you haven’t already. Every little bit helps when your DA is that high.

Thanks, that makes sense. The challenge is the closest gas station to my house that has E85 its 45+ miles from my house but just a few from the dragstrip. I guess I'll have to plan a little ahead and fill up with an e50 blend and flash the e50 tune a day or so before going to the drag strip.

I pulled the charcoal filters when I switched to the BMC filters.

Do you think the CSL coding would be better over going XHP?

[SwankPeRFection]

XHP is a bit in the air for me. There’s happy people with it and then there’s people who are like “ehh, it could be better”. I don’t like how XHP is handling their most aggressive stage for the calibration where they flat out say it’ll wear out your box. For me, if someone’s pushing something that hard without maintaining safeties, I have to wonder how optimized and proper are they handling the other calibrations. There’s a right way and a wrong way to controls transmissions and coming from the super finicky Audi DSG camp experience, I know how easy it is to pick the wrong tuner that’s supposed to be good but end up with a shit calibration that doesn’t work or causes issues. Sometimes going the route of reliability while improving performance instead of sheer stupid values allows you to bang on stuff all the time and not have issues and if done right, you don’t really leave too much on the table.

Considering it’s less cost than XHP and tunes the other modules as part of the whole drivetrain of the car, the CS/CSL calibrations would give you a reliable OEM bump in performance where you wouldn’t need to maybe worry so much on if the revision you have was vetted enough or is smooth enough for you when you’re not banging on the car yet steps it up when you need it. Ultimately, it’s your money, but it’s fairly cheap to try the Kubax coding for it. If you’re not going crazy with power adders, this may work for you.

In terms of your fuel thing, if you’re running the flex mapping, then you shouldn’t need to keep flashing stuff. Time your fill up needs to when you arrive in the track area and then fill up to your mix level you want and drive around a little bit to get your reading to be correct on the E sensor and then just put some miles on it a bit aggressively and let it dial in. If the track is close to the highway, it’s even easier since you can do a couple of pulls. You basically just want to load the engine a few times to get it to hit the necessary load points on the map for it to dial in the trims and correct timing values if it needs to. If you’re waiting for your runs down the strip to do this, you’re wasting time and it’s definitely not going to be optimized at all.

Of course everyone mods and tunes their car differently and this may not work for you, but I’ve always been one to run what I brought. I don’t dick around with map this or map that when I show up and always want the same well balanced and quick setup everyday on the street as I would if I’m on a track or whatever. The longer your ECU has had to hit the different map values and adjust over longer periods of time, the better the car will run and the happier your engine will be and that will translate into proper power output without it still trying to figure out what the limits are based on its safety protocols.

[M4Martin]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

XHP is a bit in the air for me. There’s happy people with it and then there’s people who are like “ehh, it could be better”. I don’t like how XHP is handling their most aggressive stage for the calibration where they flat out say it’ll wear out your box. For me, if someone’s pushing something that hard without maintaining safeties, I have to wonder how optimized and proper are they handling the other calibrations. There’s a right way and a wrong way to controls transmissions and coming from the super finicky Audi DSG camp experience, I know how easy it is to pick the wrong tuner that’s supposed to be good but end up with a shit calibration that doesn’t work or causes issues. Sometimes going the route of reliability while improving performance instead of sheer stupid values allows you to bang on stuff all the time and not have issues and if done right, you don’t really leave too much on the table.

Considering it’s less cost than XHP and tunes the other modules as part of the whole drivetrain of the car, the CS/CSL calibrations would give you a reliable OEM bump in performance where you wouldn’t need to maybe worry so much on if the revision you have was vetted enough or is smooth enough for you when you’re not banging on the car yet steps it up when you need it. Ultimately, it’s your money, but it’s fairly cheap to try the Kubax coding for it. If you’re not going crazy with power adders, this may work for you.

In terms of your fuel thing, if you’re running the flex mapping, then you shouldn’t need to keep flashing stuff. Time your fill up needs to when you arrive in the track area and then fill up to your mix level you want and drive around a little bit to get your reading to be correct on the E sensor and then just put some miles on it a bit aggressively and let it dial in. If the track is close to the highway, it’s even easier since you can do a couple of pulls. You basically just want to load the engine a few times to get it to hit the necessary load points on the map for it to dial in the trims and correct timing values if it needs to. If you’re waiting for your runs down the strip to do this, you’re wasting time and it’s definitely not going to be optimized at all.

Of course everyone mods and tunes their car differently and this may not work for you, but I’ve always been one to run what I brought. I don’t dick around with map this or map that when I show up and always want the same well balanced and quick setup everyday on the street as I would if I’m on a track or whatever. The longer your ECU has had to hit the different map values and adjust over longer periods of time, the better the car will run and the happier your engine will be and that will translate into proper power output without it still trying to figure out what the limits are based on its safety protocols.

I wanted to try out the E50 tune because I thought I had read it's a little more aggressive than the flex fuel tune and was hoping to go a little faster.

[SwankPeRFection]

That won’t always be the case, especially with the high DA you’ve got. Here’s some corrected numbers if you were at sea level and ran those times, as long as the DAs you posted were correct.

First run: Corrected MSA: ET - 10.73 MPH - 129.95

Second run: Corrected MSA: ET - 10.11 MPH - 139.16

[hellcat2m4]

With E50 OTS I was able to run 7.1 60-130 with the xhp stage 3 flash with drag mode turned off.

I don't have an area to do a 1/4 mile close to me but im thinking based on the 60-130 it should trap 133-134.

[Jasinedward]

I need to get a down/midpipe soon.... I really want to get off the OTS stage 1 map and on to a custom tune. My best is a 10.5 @ 128 on the stage 1 flex tune with an e30 mix... I know it's pulling power on the top end because I can feel it at around 105mph lag a bit and when it hits 110 it takes back off...

Do you guys run in 4wd sport or 4wd sport+ mode? I've been running in 4wd sport mode for better traction. I haven't used sport+ mode yet because my 60' times are excellent at the moment.

[hellcat2m4]

Originally Posted by Jasinedward

I need to get a down/midpipe soon.... I really want to get off the OTS stage 1 map and on to a custom tune. My best is a 10.5 @ 128 on the stage 1 flex tune with an e30 mix... I know it's pulling power on the top end because I can feel it at around 105mph lag a bit and when it hits 110 it takes back off...

Do you guys run in 4wd sport or 4wd sport+ mode? I've been running in 4wd sport mode for better traction. I haven't used sport+ mode yet because my 60' times are excellent at the moment.

4WD sport for daily/rolls, and 4wd for digs.

[Jasinedward]

Originally Posted by hellcat2m4

4WD sport for daily/rolls, and 4wd for digs.

Is 4wd sport too much for digs on a prepped track?

[hellcat2m4]

It's not, it can still work. I just found my best times with 4wd in comfort suspension for the weight transfer to the rear on the launch.

[M4Martin]

Originally Posted by M4Martin

I went to the dragstrip last night. On the way to the strip i filled up with an E55 blend and I flashed an E50 tune once I got to the drag strip. It was an unorganized mess at the track and I only got 3 passes in despite going straight to the staging lanes after each run. But my first pass was 10.9, my second and third were 10.8. Im.mot sure what's going on when the car was 100% stock it ran 11.0 and when I ran it with an E38 blend and flex fuel OTS tune it ran a 10.5.

So I decided to do some testing today. I put an e50 blend in the car and drove about 2-5 miles on the flexfuel map to let the ethanol mix settle and ensure it was e50 before switching to the e50 map. Once I was confident that the mix was true e50 I pulled into a parking lot and flashed the car to the stock custom rom map. Then I flashed the E50 map. I opened it up a little bit and got a short log but it showed the (ram) boost target peaking at 40 psig and the map peaking at 36.9 psig.

After driving about 45 miles I did a pull from a standstill, I didn't have enough room to do a 1/4 mile but went a little over an 1/8th of a mile. The target peaked at 39 psig and the map peaks at 36.9 psig. Here's the map for that run.

https://bootmod3.net/log?id=660dd24192122b3ec77a799f

It looks like the car had to be flashed back to stock map before flashing the e50 map for it to try to target more boost. I know there may be more factors involved but at least to me on the surface it looks like flashing to stock has a bigger effect than the DME learning the maps Adaptations.