[Tag]

Originally Posted by M2siast

This might be what I’m looking for, where is this comparo?

29:40 Carbon Wheels

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

I admit they’re drool-over cool looking.
Downside is you need a full Pit Crew to use them… one person to center and hold the socket, two more people to pull on a 6-foot breaker bar to loosen, and another to hand them the 6-foot torque wrench. The center nut requires torquing to 930Nm (that’s about SEVEN HUNDRED foot pounds).

holy sh!t that's even more than Porsche's.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

This.

A stupid idea when P cars do it, and just as stupid when BMW does it.

Insider baseball:

My buddy is a big time track rat and is awaiting delivery of his 992 GT3 RS. He's owned 2 991 GT3's, a 997 GT3 and two 997 Cup cars. He does a bunch of Porsche experience trackdays around the world (spain, nurburgring, iceland) and has chatted up the Porsche engineers a bunch.

He asked a few of them about the CL's. Every single one of them HATE Cl's. Two of them told him the CL mechanism has been subtly re-engineered like 7 times. It offers no weight savings, no performance benefit unlike CCB's. It's pure motorsports theater. Guys who do track and change wheels a lot general either hate them or have gotten used to them by now, but the Porsche tightening spec is less than these, like 440 ft-lbs. You have to have the huge breaker bar and massive torque wrench, or plump for the $5k hytorc system (which, by the way Porsche does NOT endorse).

So yeah....this is PURELY show. No go. Get some lightweight wheels and titanium lugs for way cheaper and you're same or ahead. Sorry, there's no performance benefits from CL's.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Tag

I'm not arguing for center locks, that's a different question. I personally think they're overkill for the street or on an M car. What I'm saying is lighter wheels in general make a difference. Light wheels don't only affect acceleration, they also affect turn in and braking improving the cars overall handling. And as an added bonus they improve ride comfort.

It's fine that you don't see any value in lighter wheels but to say they make no difference, that's where we part ways.

Perhaps you should read the entire chain of replies? I never said they make zero difference. I also started out my posts in this thread talking about the CL, not lighter wheels in general. It was some guy replying to me that took it down the road of wheel weight.

Still, they make very little difference for the $$ as the data provided by GM illustrates.

You are again making claims with no substantiation like ride quality improvement. Why does an S class use heavy wheels if this is an important component of ride quality? Where is any accelerometer data? I am not claiming there is ZERO improvement. I highly suspect there is very little real-world improvement, however, within the bounds of available wheels. My M2C winter setup weighs 10-15 lbs more per wheel and tire and rides better than my summer setup. Same sizes and profile. Whatever effect there is, it's swamped by the tire.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by chris719

Perhaps you should read the entire chain of replies? I never said they make zero difference. I also started out my posts in this thread talking about the CL, not lighter wheels in general. It was some guy replying to me that took it down the road of wheel weight.

Still, they make very little difference for the $$ as the data provided by GM illustrates.

You are again making claims with no substantiation like ride quality improvement. Why does an S class use heavy wheels if this is an important component of ride quality? Where is any accelerometer data? I am not claiming there is ZERO improvement. I highly suspect there is very little real-world improvement, however, within the bounds of available wheels. My M2C winter setup weighs 10-15 lbs more per wheel and tire and rides better than my summer setup. Same sizes and profile. Whatever effect there is, it's swamped by the tire.

I’m not making unsubstantiated claims.

[KiloCo]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Other than honoring the marketing copy of the announcement, what would be the value of using these in daily driving?

Reduction in Wheel Theft.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by KiloCo

Reduction in Wheel Theft.

Now THAT is a benefit!

[oz555]

This looks very good!

[Skyscraper]

When Porsche went to center locks there were threads on Rennlist on how to convert to 5 lug with GT parts. That’s how bad center locks are on street cars.

In addition there were track rats removing the carbon rotors from their GT3 RS and installing GT3 steel rotors because of the cost to replace the carbon rotors.

Reduced weight doesn’t matter at HPDE events.

This kit is a money flex.

[HotRodM4]

So, guess we not changing tires on the side of the road with this?

[carseatsm5]

They look really cool.

[TJR_///M3]

While ‘discussing’ performance benefits don’t forget that the rotational inertia reduction will have a positive effect on acceleration…

[6speed_M2]

What are the benefits of the center lock rim versus the traditional set up?

[BMthusiast]

Either way these photos are opulent.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by Skyscraper

When Porsche went to center locks there were threads on Rennlist on how to convert to 5 lug with GT parts. That’s how bad center locks are on street cars.

In addition there were track rats removing the carbon rotors from their GT3 RS and installing GT3 steel rotors because of the cost to replace the carbon rotors.

Reduced weight doesn’t matter at HPDE events.

This kit is a money flex.

I agree, besides generally speaking the majority of bmw owners don’t track their cars. Having said that, I like the CLs on my 991 gt3.

[baj_baj]

You can see them installed and weighted here, sadly in german:

[bandersen]

Anyone see the part # for the G05/X5?

What's the price, btw? Interesting comments from the Porsche guys...

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

What are the benefits of the center lock rim versus the traditional set up?

Absolutely nothing. It's pure motorsports theater. I mean, they look cool AF, for sure. But please don't try to sell me on any performance benefits, or ease of use changing wheels at the track. nuh uh.

Supposedly "easier to change wheels" because of one locking nut...but these don't go on like racing wheels.

Here's a GREAT video that Matt at Obsessed Garage has made to sell the $5,000 Hytorc tool for CL's. Look at what a mess it is to do the CL's.

1. Car has to be jacked in the air. Do NOT loosen on ground. Which means.
2. Someone has to be in the car holding the brakes. Some people use a clamp to press the brake pedal down (spreader clamp pressed against the front seat) but that doesn't...
3. Hold the steering wheel straight for the front wheels.
4. Pop off the centerlock cap
5. Properly depress the locking pin. This can be a giant pain.
6. Deploy your 5' breaker bar to loosen the center nut. Matt is a strong dude...crossfitter. Look how much he is pulling up on the bar (oh, you can't push down, you have to pull up).
7. Pull wheel off.

Re-installation is as follows:

1. Again, do in air, do not tighten on ground
2. Completely clean the CL nut and mating surface on wheel of old optimoly paste.
3. Apply new, very thin, layer of optimoly paste. This stuff gets everywhere, reportedly.
4. Reinstall wheel and nut.
5. Get your 440 ft-lbs huge torque wrench out.
6. Tighten wheel.
7. Loosen wheel and turn breaker bar 90 degrees.
8. Re-tighten wheel.

Does this sound faster than zipping off 5 bolts with an impact? And everyone goes on about lightness...that locking mechanism isn't exactly small guys.

Keep in mind, with this video, Matt has probably done a centerlock wheel like few hundred times, literally. The amount of times he's had his CL's off on his 991 GT3, 991 RS, 991.2 RS and now this 997 RS is....a lot.

The biggest drawback of using these if you're not tracking and don't have the equipment is that you MUST go to the dealer, unless you carry the equipment with you and plan on doing it for an independent tire shop if you should need to....

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Absolutely nothing. It's pure motorsports theater. I mean, they look cool AF, for sure. But please don't try to sell me on any performance benefits, or ease of use changing wheels at the track. nuh uh.

Supposedly "easier to change wheels" because of one locking nut...but these don't go on like racing wheels.

Here's a GREAT video that Matt at Obsessed Garage has made to sell the $5,000 Hytorc tool for CL's. Look at what a mess it is to do the CL's.

1. Car has to be jacked in the air. Do NOT loosen on ground. Which means.
2. Someone has to be in the car holding the brakes. Some people use a clamp to press the brake pedal down (spreader clamp pressed against the front seat) but that doesn't...
3. Hold the steering wheel straight for the front wheels.
4. Pop off the centerlock cap
5. Properly depress the locking pin. This can be a giant pain.
6. Deploy your 5' breaker bar to loosen the center nut. Matt is a strong dude...crossfitter. Look how much he is pulling up on the bar (oh, you can't push down, you have to pull up).
7. Pull wheel off.

Re-installation is as follows:

1. Again, do in air, do not tighten on ground
2. Completely clean the CL nut and mating surface on wheel of old optimoly paste.
3. Apply new, very thin, layer of optimoly paste. This stuff gets everywhere, reportedly.
4. Reinstall wheel and nut.
5. Get your 440 ft-lbs huge torque wrench out.
6. Tighten wheel.
7. Loosen wheel and turn breaker bar 90 degrees.
8. Re-tighten wheel.

Does this sound faster than zipping off 5 bolts with an impact? And everyone goes on about lightness...that locking mechanism isn't exactly small guys.

Keep in mind, with this video, Matt has probably done a centerlock wheel like few hundred times, literally. The amount of times he's had his CL's off on his 991 GT3, 991 RS, 991.2 RS and now this 997 RS is....a lot.

The biggest drawback of using these if you're not tracking and don't have the equipment is that you MUST go to the dealer, unless you carry the equipment with you and plan on doing it for an independent tire shop if you should need to....

What if you have your own person 12-man pit crew???

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by baj_baj

You can see them installed and weighted here, sadly in german:

Ok so utterly pointless confirmed.

21.1 kg 19" forged center lock front wheel + tire
22.7 kg 19" forged m3 front wheel + tire (just measured mine)
24.1 kg 19" cast m2 front wheel + tire

334 grams stock lug bolts
1350 grams center lock

22.45 kg 19" forged center lock front wheel + center lock
23.00 kg 19" forged m3 wheel + lug bolts
24.40 kg 19" cast m2 wheels + lug bolts

So 2 kilo savings for m2 owners or 550 gram saving for m3 owners... how much are these again? You're better off buying lighter aftermarket forged wheels or even carbon fiber ones than this center lock crap.
And they didn't even weigh the actual hub, which will probably be heavier than a stock one.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

What if you have your own person 12-man pit crew???

Then you're driving a Ferrari FXX or a Huracan Trofeo and you're not worried about BMW Centerlocks.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by forcefed

Utterly pointless

This...... Bragging rights is all it is and $12k Euros for the right.

No functional use at all for the street and marginal even for the track. You are limited in wheel choice too.

I can find a bunch of other upgrade north of $12k that would be more fun.