[ShockArrival]

Solid video and review, well above average overall!

[P1]

Before she became an influencer on social media, she used to have (or perhaps still has) the cleanest E21.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

It's not at all? In manual mode with the DTC, press kickdown with the accelerator pedal and pull the downshift paddle. It'll then drop down and SKIP to the lowest gear possible. At 70mph it'll drop from 7th to 3rd in an instant I've found, anyone that thinks ZF is in anyway 'faster' is delusional or suffering from confirmation bias if you think the ZF gearbox is faster.

Same with kickdown in auto mode, the ZF drops down the gears. Engaging gears as it drops down. DTC however, skips gears.

ZF - Example - *Kickdown Requested* 7-6-5-4th

DTC Example - *Kickdown Request* 7-4th

ZF is no where near as responsive as DTC, sorry

That's the problem with you people.
you mix up emotion with facts.

Get your facts straight if you want to argue.
Your post is full of nonsense and absoloutely zero know-how, and even I haven't got that much but at least I understood how the ZF works, you didn't. Not a bit.

[TEGRITY]

I don't agree that the interior is better than F8x and as good as an M5 and yes, it's subjective. It does look modern but that does not always mean better as F8x is simple and classy .This is just my humble view and being very picky.

The G8x dashboard is very plain and has plastic subwoofer cover. In person, you can spot that cheap plastic straight away. In photos it does look great!
There is also no stitching on the dash, which reduces the leather feel until you touch it.
The F8x subwoofer cover is proper metal and the dual stitching lines really enhance the leather feel. It looks classic/ dated but it feels like better quality.

The G8x AC vents are the worst (well it's the same in most new generation BMWs). The middle vents looks different to the side ones and the plastic in these vents is so much flimsier and looks cheaper in comparison to the F8x. The air vent turning wheel is also different for the centre vents and the side vents. Why can't they look and feel the same?!?

The touch sensitive buttons for the drive modes, etc in the G8x could have been solid buttons like in the F8x. It just lacks that feel and response when you press them.

Digital dials vs Analogue dials. Won't say more on this topic.

And I sorely missed the good old handbrake.

Specially on the G82, the front door speakers have no HK badging. There is a placeholder for the badge but it's just plain. In the G80 it does have it. Silly.

[stevehifi]

I dont think the ZF auto is such a big deal, many high HP cars have it. The way to make the car raw is just adding more engine/exhaust noise and reducing sound deadening, etc.

BMW wants the new G80 to feel more like an AMG Merc than a traditional BMW of old ... so they muted the car to the extreme in all aspects - not just the smoother transmission

[GerryM5]

Becky's F80 is one sweet looking car. The color combination is great.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

Whichever way you look at it, DTC is a better transmission for what the car is trying to be. People keep saying "I don't mind it's smoother around town than the DTC blah blah"

If you want smoothness, go buy a 335d/340i. Smooth should never be used to describe an M car.

The thing is with ZF is that it inherently restricts the cars performance. Due to oil cavitation you simply car spin the torque converter gearbox as fast as DTC, ZF hates high RPM. Which is why the S58 doesn't Rev as high as the S55. It also hates being banged off the redline and then told to upshift, there's that awful up change delay.

I'm sorry but ZF being in this car is not because 'we had to make it work X Drive' but because they couldn't be bothered and it cost money to keep making it.

Price of the car has gone up, quality of the product has gone down. G80 is essentially a M340i plus, I'm sorry to say

Ah yes, the old "my car is too high performance to be launchable" argument. "It's so high performance, that's why it loses to a Camaro off the line. Because of how high performance it is."

The torque in low gears in the F80 is a liability to driving performance. That's a fact, and a well established one. We can argue until we are blue in the face about whether the mechanical nature of the DCT is more engaging, but if you're after engagement you should be in the 6 speed anyway.

If the g80 is the new 340 then where does that leave the old f80? Is that the new 2er?

[Beemer5to3]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

It's not at all? In manual mode with the DTC, press kickdown with the accelerator pedal and pull the downshift paddle. It'll then drop down and SKIP to the lowest gear possible. At 70mph it'll drop from 7th to 3rd in an instant I've found, anyone that thinks ZF is in anyway 'faster' is delusional or suffering from confirmation bias if you think the ZF gearbox is faster.

Same with kickdown in auto mode, the ZF drops down the gears. Engaging gears as it drops down. DTC however, skips gears.

ZF - Example - *Kickdown Requested* 7-6-5-4th

DTC Example - *Kickdown Request* 7-4th

ZF is no where near as responsive as DTC, sorry

You're talking complete shite.

In no way does the ZF8 cycle down through gears to kick down. The BMW DCT (not DTC as you put it - just saying), is a deeply flawed transmission. It made my M6 really skittish to drive and was the worst part of the car. The ZF is a much better 'box for everyday driving.

[xcusem3]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

It's not at all? In manual mode with the DTC, press kickdown with the accelerator pedal and pull the downshift paddle. It'll then drop down and SKIP to the lowest gear possible. At 70mph it'll drop from 7th to 3rd in an instant I've found, anyone that thinks ZF is in anyway 'faster' is delusional or suffering from confirmation bias if you think the ZF gearbox is faster.

Same with kickdown in auto mode, the ZF drops down the gears. Engaging gears as it drops down. DTC however, skips gears.

ZF - Example - *Kickdown Requested* 7-6-5-4th

DTC Example - *Kickdown Request* 7-4th

ZF is no where near as responsive as DTC, sorry

I agree

Even in the e9x at 65mph when you pull the paddle and tip the throttle it drops from 7th gear to 2nd as fast as any single gear downshift it can do. The high redline helps the 5-cog gear drop but if everything is timed right upon braking it's pretty dramatic

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

Whichever way you look at it, DTC is a better transmission for what the car is trying to be. People keep saying "I don't mind it's smoother around town than the DTC blah blah"

If you want smoothness, go buy a 335d/340i. Smooth should never be used to describe an M car.

The thing is with ZF is that it inherently restricts the cars performance. Due to oil cavitation you simply car spin the torque converter gearbox as fast as DTC, ZF hates high RPM. Which is why the S58 doesn't Rev as high as the S55. It also hates being banged off the redline and then told to upshift, there's that awful up change delay.

I'm sorry but ZF being in this car is not because 'we had to make it work X Drive' but because they couldn't be bothered and it cost money to keep making it.

Price of the car has gone up, quality of the product has gone down. G80 is essentially a M340i plus, I'm sorry to say

Blah blah blah. It's not enough that the new cars outperform the F8x in every single metric because some of you will continue to cling to nonsense like this. It's just kind of sad and pathetic IMO. Say you don't like the front end and that's fine but why go to extremes like this and make yourself look silly?

[CP911]

Lots of butthurt DCT/F80 fanboys coming out of the woodwork to spew total nonsense and BS about how the ZF8 works. You guys don't deserve to own a BMW...

All it took was driving a M5C and a M2C back to back for me to realize the ZF8 was a better transmission than the DCT, all things considered. The difference in shift speed (both up and down) is virtually undetectable, while the difference in smoothness and day-to-day driveability was massive. For a car that has 4 doors and is meant to be a perfect "jack of all trades" type of vehicle, the ZF8 is the proper transmission. If you want a DCT that is actually good and engineered with almost zero compromises, go buy a Porsche. They do DCTs well. BMW does not. Sorry to break it to ya.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by CP911

Lots of butthurt DCT/F80 fanboys coming out of the woodwork to spew total nonsense and BS about how the ZF8 works.

Literally just one

[PLF69]

The transmission changes the character of the car considerebly just like bucket seats, suspension/chassis stiffness and engine torque characteristics do.

No need to go deep into model X vs model X war.

[wasya152]

Wonder if the fact that the f80 is a standard m3 and non comp makes a big difference in the feel in the comparison.

[Casone238]

There's still f80s for sale if ya hate the g80 so much, but if ya really want engagement in a transmission get the manual. From my experience in the f82 dct vs my m340 is the dct was way more violent and shifts felt like I was getting donkey kicked. I do know with the aggression levels the g80 will shift more violently then my g20. I won't mind ZF tranny especially since If I had a G80 it would be a daily

[thaalrasha]

As I understand it from the video the conclusion is : G80 is better in every single way however if you want the car that feels special for the weekend drive she'd take the F80 still. Did the G80 became too capable to feel alive at reasonable speeds ?

She came with James Dean, spotted him in the video background at some point... would have loved to hear what he thinks

[GerryM5]

Why this BS. She has a sweet car and a new generation BMW should be better. I don't get this pissing contest.

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

As I understand it from the video the conclusion is : G80 is better in every single way however if you want the car that feels special for the weekend drive she'd take the F80 still. Did the G80 became too capable to feel alive at reasonable speeds ?

She came with James Dean, spotted him in the video background at some point... would have loved to hear what he thinks

That pretty much sums up her opinion. I would take the G80 as we also have an M2 which I find more suitable for the special weekend drives than our F80.

G80 can still be fun at low speeds in my opinion but it is a more grown up car than previous generation.

Maybe we can get James's opinion next time. Is is actually in some of the car to car shots - left him in there as an Easter Egg.

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by wasya152

Wonder if the fact that the f80 is a standard m3 and non comp makes a big difference in the feel in the comparison.

This would definitely be a factor but we wanted cover UK launch model vs UK launch model. We don't get the non CP G80 over here.

Over the years the software updates made a huge difference to the F8X's.

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by P1

Before she became an influencer on social media, she used to have (or perhaps still has) the cleanest E21.

She still has it.

I did a Podcast with Becky if anyone is interested in finding out more about her.

https://anchor.fm/imran-arshad0/epis...TJP-002-etij87

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by filostrato

Really enjoyed the video Imran. Thanks for highlighting the different characters and the back to back feel of the two cars. People will argue about numbers all day, but the experience behind the wheel is what most people care about when considering an M3/4 purchase

Originally Posted by golf_234

Very well done, extremely polished video work Imran.

Originally Posted by CanuckM

Great video Imran, this was much needed for those of us waiting to receive our cars. Its easy having doubts when one sees all the deals on 2020 M2/4s out there but your video reigned me back in.

Originally Posted by Digitalize

Excellent comparison, seemed pretty fair to me!

Originally Posted by W///

That was a great video, I really liked the format

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Very cool! Some gorgeous cars there to boot. Thanks Imran!

Originally Posted by IND-Distribution

Nice work once again Imran!

Originally Posted by ShockArrival

Solid video and review, well above average overall!

Thank you guys.

[BMthusiast]

Squiggly vs Smooth.