[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by dialogical

The thing that kills me about these reviews is the complete lack of perspective. It's like they're comparing it to some mythical sports sedan that doesn't exist, instead of basing their comparisons on your other options in the segment.

The car is "super heavy"...unless you compare it to its main competitors, where it's actually one of the lightest.

The car is "way too big"...unless you compare it to its main competitors, where it's right in line with them.

The car has the "wrong transmission"...unless you compare it to its main sporty competitor, the Giuliano QV, which uses the exact same transmission.

On the topics of transmission - the fact that this is the ONLY sports sedan in its class with a manual doesn't even get mentioned. If you want your car with a stick, it's literally the only thing in its class.

Also, and it's unrelated, but he gets a bunch of facts wrong. He says that the car they are driving is a "stripper model", proving the car is way too expensive, but it has literally every option. He also thinks that the ventilated seats are $1k for some reason.

I think the car has issues, I'm not some crazed fanboy, but that review had some real lack of context and perspective in it.

"On the topics of transmission - the fact that this is the ONLY sports sedan in its class with a manual doesn't even get mentioned. If you want your car with a stick, it's literally the only thing in its class."

Almost correct:

https://www.cadillac.com/future-vehi...ng-reservation

[Nkr15]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

"On the topics of transmission - the fact that this is the ONLY sports sedan in its class with a manual doesn't even get mentioned. If you want your car with a stick, it's literally the only thing in its class."

Almost correct:

https://www.cadillac.com/future-vehi...ng-reservation

Can you buy that right now? I don't have a car right now I'm not waiting till "the end of summer" to buy an American couch that will be marked up by $50,000 since it's the last v8 with a manual forever.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by Nkr15

Can you buy that right now? I don't have a car right now I'm not waiting till "the end of summer" to buy an American couch that will be marked up by $50,000 since it's the last v8 with a manual forever.

Take that up with someone else. I'm just correcting misinformation.

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Why is it that my friend who owns one has been mobbed every time he goes out with the car by people who love it? He gets thumbs up, he gets horn honks and then thumbs up, he gets compliments at gas stations, etc. and these are New Yorkers who don't say anything nice to anyone.

Confirmation bias. That's why.

This is a confusing take. I've only seen people talk about it's look ALL over the internet. Confirmation bias is a bitch for sure, but I'd argue WAY more think it's ugly than beautiful. I haven't met a person who said it's good looking and I'm DEEP into the BMW forums/facebook groups/eco system (friends have a lot of ///M's). Only people from this forum think it looks good to me (which is fair).

For example: Remember the F-Type that Jaguar made (before the facelift)? Widely acclaimed for being beautiful, and while some will easily disagree with that point, the overwhelming majority would agree that the F-Type when it first came out was a gorgeous car. We're in the same boat with this car, except it's a negative in this case.

Originally Posted by dialogical

The thing that kills me about these reviews is the complete lack of perspective. It's like they're comparing it to some mythical sports sedan that doesn't exist, instead of basing their comparisons on your other options in the segment.

The car is "super heavy"...unless you compare it to its main competitors, where it's actually one of the lightest.

The F8x M was lighter.

The car is "way too big"...unless you compare it to its main competitors, where it's right in line with them.

The F8x M felt smaller.

The car has the "wrong transmission"...unless you compare it to its main sporty competitor, the Giuliano QV, which uses the exact same transmission.

The F8x M had a DCT

On the topics of transmission - the fact that this is the ONLY sports sedan in its class with a manual doesn't even get mentioned. If you want your car with a stick, it's literally the only thing in its class.

Also, and it's unrelated, but he gets a bunch of facts wrong. He says that the car they are driving is a "stripper model", proving the car is way too expensive, but it has literally every option. He also thinks that the ventilated seats are $1k for some reason.

I think the car has issues, I'm not some crazed fanboy, but that review had some real lack of context and perspective in it.

See my underlined points? If you think comparing the G8x to an Alfa or any other competitor is fair, let me tell you.. it's not.

An Alfa is a horribly unreliable car. The Audi RS's are slower. The AMG's are too heavy. The F8x minimized all those issues. It was fast. It was lighter. It was more reliable. The G8x now has the Alfa transmission, weight of a AMG (AWD model), and while it's not slow in any sense of the word, it's now terribly ugly.

Rather than improve on it's special dynamics (DCT, lightweight, etc). It ignores all of that to make it an ugly-but-mini-M5.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

This is a confusing take. I've only seen people talk about it's look ALL over the internet. Confirmation bias is a bitch for sure, but I'd argue WAY more think it's ugly than beautiful. I haven't met a person who said it's good looking and I'm DEEP into the BMW forums/facebook groups/eco system (friends have a lot of ///M's). Only people from this forum think it looks good to me (which is fair).

For example: Remember the F-Type that Jaguar made (before the facelift)? Widely acclaimed for being beautiful, and while some will easily disagree with that point, the overwhelming majority would agree that the F-Type when it first came out was a gorgeous car. We're in the same boat with this car, except it's a negative in this case.

See my underlined points? If you think comparing the G8x to an Alfa or any other competitor is fair, let me tell you.. it's not.

An Alfa is a horribly unreliable car. The Audi RS's are slower. The AMG's are too heavy. The F8x minimized all those issues. It was fast. It was lighter. It was more reliable. The G8x now has the Alfa transmission, weight of a AMG (AWD model), and while it's not slow in any sense of the word, it's now terribly ugly.

Rather than improve on it's special dynamics (DCT, lightweight, etc). It ignores all of that to make it an ugly-but-mini-M5.

Have you driven the car? I only ask because I've driven multiple and I gotta tell you, it blows the F out of the water as far as dynamics go. Same as the F was a better performance car than the E9X.

If you have driven it then you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not sure how you think it's worse.

[Sedan_Clan]

The car looks good.

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

Have you driven the car? I only ask because I've driven multiple and I gotta tell you, it blows the F out of the water as far as dynamics go. Same as the F was a better performance car than the E9X.

If you have driven it then you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not sure how you think it's worse.

I have driven it. It feels like smaller M5 rather than a faster M3/M4. It has better driving characteristics than the F8x but its lack of DCT and extra weight is quite noticeable. It's really just that simple. It may be faster and has tighter turn in, but the lack of special parts really takes away from it. And this is all ignoring the extremely obvious looks of the thing.

This forums reactions to it's looks said it all to me. Also, the weight, size, lack of DCT is another negative point.

[spacecowboy85]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

Have you driven the car? I only ask because I've driven multiple and I gotta tell you, it blows the F out of the water as far as dynamics go. Same as the F was a better performance car than the E9X.

If you have driven it then you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not sure how you think it's worse.

This up here is facts. I had an F80 for two years I tracked it and it was my daily. I can wholeheartedly say from experience that my G80 is way better, I have not been to the track yet but that’s coming soon.

Every one that has seen my G80 including a cars and coffee event has said the same thing “it looks really good and aggressive”. Not to be a snob but I feel that about 60% of the haters are the ones that

1. Never have driven the previous generation and go solely on looks
2. They can’t afford it or don’t want to, so they hate instead.

Just my .02 cents

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by spacecowboy85

This up here is facts. I had an F80 for two years I tracked it and it was my daily. I can wholeheartedly say from experience that my G80 is way better, I have not been to the track yet but that’s coming soon.

Every one that has seen my G80 including a cars and coffee event has said the same thing “it looks really good and aggressive”. Not to be a snob but I feel that about 60% of the haters are the ones that

1. Never have driven the previous generation and go solely on looks
2. They can’t afford it or don’t want to, so they hate instead.

Just my .02 cents

As I just posted in my previous post. It's driving characteristics are improved for sure. It's faster, has more grip due to later boost when launching, etc. But lacks the special touch in my opinion and a LOT of this stems from lack or DCT. Manual is one thing and I'm glad they are keeping it, but once you go DCT, it's really hard to go back.

Also to answer your points:
1) I have owned the previous F82 M4, and this car is not really evolutionary, but rather subjective in what you gain with it. It's like give and take.
2) I'm not sure what income or what one can buy having to do anything with this?

[IB M]

The M6 comparison nails it for me, overall and up close the size overwhelms the design.

Always thought E92 had one of the best side views especially vs the M6.

BMW deserves kudos for available 6MT and interior.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Why is it that my friend who owns one has been mobbed every time he goes out with the car by people who love it? He gets thumbs up, he gets horn honks and then thumbs up, he gets compliments at gas stations, etc. and these are New Yorkers who don't say anything nice to anyone.

Confirmation bias. That's why.

Just like an X6, some people love it and some hate it. I always liked it but for some reason don't like the new X4, In general when my wife owned one we got more complements then I have ever gotten on a suv (more than my x3m has gotten)

Here is the thing, these forums are full of mostly men and mostly gear heads who have no or little fashion sense compared to other non forum people. BMW didn't get the opinion on the car from forum users they got it from the other 95% who buy them. Car reviewers are mostly the same way, watch the car wow review where he even points out the fashion sense of his camera man...

Just saying what the 5% think looks good maybe what 95% of buyers are bored with. Personally I am torn on the look and as much as I always wanted a AWD M3 for an everyday driver in Chicago, I might just go with another X3M with the LCI, yeah it's not as fun to drive but it's insanely practical and you do still have a lot of fun driving it, more than I ever thought I would I a car that big (doesn't feel it at all)

As others have said enjoy these cars while we can, before we know it everything will be 4500+ lbs and all electric.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I have driven it. It feels like smaller M5 rather than a faster M3/M4. It has better driving characteristics than the F8x but its lack of DCT and extra weight is quite noticeable. It's really just that simple. It may be faster and has tighter turn in, but the lack of special parts really takes away from it. And this is all ignoring the extremely obvious looks of the thing.

This forums reactions to it's looks said it all to me. Also, the weight, size, lack of DCT is another negative point.

I agree with some of your points but I have to tell you, having driven them back to back, there's no comparison. And I LOVED my E92.

https://machineswithsouls.com/2021/0...e-f82-and-e92/

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by spacecowboy85

This up here is facts. I had an F80 for two years I tracked it and it was my daily. I can wholeheartedly say from experience that my G80 is way better, I have not been to the track yet but that’s coming soon.

Every one that has seen my G80 including a cars and coffee event has said the same thing “it looks really good and aggressive”. Not to be a snob but I feel that about 60% of the haters are the ones that

1. Never have driven the previous generation and go solely on looks
2. They can’t afford it or don’t want to, so they hate instead.

Just my .02 cents

Mine is on order because...what's not to love? I did stick so the trans isn't even an issue for me anyway if that's a "thing" on here.

[spacecowboy85]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

As I just posted in my previous post. It's driving characteristics are improved for sure. It's faster, has more grip due to later boost when launching, etc. But lacks the special touch in my opinion and a LOT of this stems from lack or DCT. Manual is one thing and I'm glad they are keeping it, but once you go DCT, it's really hard to go back.

Also to answer your points:
1) I have owned the previous F82 M4, and this car is not really evolutionary, but rather subjective in what you gain with it. It's like give and take.
2) I'm not sure what income or what one can buy having to do anything with this?

Like I said it was my opinion, as far as the income deal it’s meant to make a point that most of the naysayers never actually intent to buy the vehicle, enthusiasts like us we know what we are getting into, is the front ugly sure but that’s subject to what your definition of ugly is. I remember push back when the e9x gen came out also.

Point is, most of us enthusiastically wait for a new M car every so often and I feel this is the first time almost every one is judging the car solely on looks which to me is weird since we know that BMW always make improvements but they are definitely being overshadowed by the amount of hate it’s getting.

Cheers mate

[RugbyBro]

Seemed like a pretty fair assessment to me overall. Nothing about this, or the CH, review is in conflict generally with the praiseworthy reviews from other publications and iNfLuEnCeRs. They simply have a different perspective on the things that G8X does. If you like the things G8X does well then this review should further reinforce your position that it’ll be a great car for you. If you don’t like what G8X does, then this is further confirmation that this platform probably isn’t for you. It seems like everyone wants to argue what’s the better car... to which it clearly depends on the end user. If it was solely up to objective capability, well then in addition to F8X, E30/36/46/9X would be considered dog sh*t

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Seemed like a pretty fair assessment to me overall. Nothing about this, or the CH, review is in conflict generally with the praiseworthy reviews from other publications and iNfLuEnCeRs. They simply have a different perspective on the things that G8X does. If you like the things G8X does well then this review should further reinforce your position that it'll be a great car for you. If you don't like what G8X does, then this is further confirmation that this platform probably isn't for you. It seems like everyone wants to argue what's the better car... to which it clearly depends on the end user. If it was solely up to objective capability, well then in addition to F8X, E30/36/46/9X would be considered dog sh*t

I literally just finished watching it properly and enjoyed it. Not a fan of the duo talking over each other, but from comments it sounds like they are new to this format working together? Anyway, agree with what you said, I just viewed these as some dudes that loved the F8X and feel like a lot of F8X owners do still. A lot don't like it because it's lost the best parts of what they still love about the F8X - smaller, lighter and more fun than the rest, while looking nice for them at the same time; none of which the G8X does, for them, which is fair enough.

Not seen anyone deny its performance, I love the looks and love it makes some people wince and won't miss what a lot of F8X owners would in the G80, so this review just made me really excited!

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Take that up with someone else. I'm just correcting misinformation.

It's not misinformation. That car isn't available yet.

Remember the Giulia QV that was supposed to have a manual?

I will count the blackwing when it's commercially available, and until then my statement is 100% accurate.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

These two guys look like the last people on earth to take the opinion of style on

You are right. The only popular vote that will matter for Munich is sales volumes.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

I literally just finished watching it properly and enjoyed it. Not a fan of the duo talking over each other, but from comments it sounds like they are new to this format working together? Anyway, agree with what you said, I just viewed these as some dudes that loved the F8X and feel like a lot of F8X owners do still. A lot don't like it because it's lost the best parts of what they still love about the F8X - smaller, lighter and more fun than the rest, while looking nice for them at the same time; none of which the G8X does, for them, which is fair enough.

Not seen anyone deny its performance, I love the looks and love it makes some people wince and won't miss what a lot of F8X owners would in the G80, so this review just made me really excited!

To be fair, I never got the impression that Farrah really liked F8X (at least not in the same way CH does). He even trashed M2C in his track review... but for some reason thinks M2 CS is the best thing since sliced bread - I still don’t know how he can hold such polar opposite opinions on fundamentally the same car (I.e his gripes were about weight of which M2CS is not lighter than M2C). They do both really love E46 - so that’s the M3 measuring stick for them I think.

I think the one thing they mention which potential G8X owners should possibly keep an eye out for is G8X isn’t significantly more comfortable than F8X. There’s been a lot made out about G8X ride comfort in the initial reviews, but some of it doesn’t fully add up to me given the chassis mechanics are very similar to F8X. I think it might be possible that some future owners may be overestimating how comfortable it is based on the reviews - it may be prudent for those who haven’t driven F8X to do so in order to gauge if they could live with a slightly better ride than that (worst case scenario).

But yes, all you who are excited - stay excited! This review could have been TST M440i brutal, but it wasn’t

[solstice]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

To be fair, I never got the impression that Farrah really liked F8X (at least not in the same way CH does). He even trashed M2C in his track review... but for some reason thinks M2 CS is the best thing since sliced bread - I still don’t know how he can hold such polar opposite opinions on fundamentally the same car (I.e his gripes were about weight of which M2CS is not lighter than M2C). They do both really love E46 - so that’s the M3 measuring stick for them I think.

I think the one thing they mention which potential G8X owners should possibly keep an eye out for is G8X isn’t significantly more comfortable than F8X. There’s been a lot made out about G8X ride comfort in the initial reviews, but some of it doesn’t fully add up to me given the chassis mechanics are very similar to F8X. I think it might be possible that some future owners may be overestimating how comfortable it is based on the reviews - it may be prudent for those who haven’t driven F8X to do so in order to gauge if they could live with a slightly better ride than that (worst case scenario).

But yes, all you who are excited - stay excited! This review could have been TST M440i brutal, but it wasn’t

They are allover the place on comfort, first they say the ride is really good and then that it’s quite stiff, followed up with how quite it is, more so than some luxury SUV they just drove...the whole review is a bit of a mess where they contradict themselves by one them saying something just to later agree when the other say something different.

I didn’t feel it was a negative review though, maybe because they were so inconsistent.

They sure thing it’s fast though, that was a constant

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by solstice

They are allover the place on comfort, first they say the ride is really good and then that it’s quite stiff, followed up with how quite it is, more so than some luxury SUV they just drove...the whole review is a bit of a mess where they contradict themselves by one them saying something just to later agree when the other say something different.

I didn’t feel it was a negative review though, maybe because they were so inconsistent.

They sure thing it’s fast though, that was a constant

Yeah they were a little all over but the conclusion I got from it was the chassis is still mega stiff but there is much better damping. My comment is really directed at those who haven't driven or owned F8X. If you have, then you'll likely notice and appreciate any improvement to ride quality. There seem to be a lot of new-to-brand people here that may not realize this is the case, and slightly less stiff / more comfortable F8X is not exactly what I would consider comfortable for most people

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

To be fair, I never got the impression that Farrah really liked F8X (at least not in the same way CH does). He even trashed M2C in his track review... but for some reason thinks M2 CS is the best thing since sliced bread - I still don't know how he can hold such polar opposite opinions on fundamentally the same car (I.e his gripes were about weight of which M2CS is not lighter than M2C). They do both really love E46 - so that's the M3 measuring stick for them I think.

I think the one thing they mention which potential G8X owners should possibly keep an eye out for is G8X isn't significantly more comfortable than F8X. There's been a lot made out about G8X ride comfort in the initial reviews, but some of it doesn't fully add up to me given the chassis mechanics are very similar to F8X. I think it might be possible that some future owners may be overestimating how comfortable it is based on the reviews - it may be prudent for those who haven't driven F8X to do so in order to gauge if they could live with a slightly better ride than that (worst case scenario).

But yes, all you who are excited - stay excited! This review could have been TST M440i brutal, but it wasn't

A few current owners have said it's softer than the F8X. I'm not worried, if I wanted a soft ride I'd get the RS5. But I agree it may shock some who are hoping on it being closer to a 5 than a 2.