[jackaleyess]

Originally Posted by robopp

41% of expected sales in the US, but let's design it for the Asian market? <shakes head>

Coz asian market more lucrative with higher margin.

[thaalrasha]

Cheapest M you can buy is probably in the US. This generation of M is so screwed because of carbon taxes with the new CO2 rating, making it well over 100k€ car for europeans (UK is not really europe and is more gentle for performance cars). That's also why there is no manual except in very few countries in EU, because the CO2 emissions is higher on those and would make the car more expensive than the auto most likely (was already the case with the M2).

Not surprised to see the biggest share in the US where the car is basically half price as the other side of the Atlantic.

That being said all these last gen pure ICE cars value will probably rocket once it's forbidden to sell new ones. Especially if battery range and charging speed is still so bad and no real solutions for track days for those type of cars yet. Might as well buy the last ones while you can... I personally will get the G81 when available just because it's going to be the last of its kind and it's going to cost me well over 140k € XD

[VIERsr]

We have to thank the Americans if Bmw still offers the manual transmission

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by Casone238

These numbers don't surprised especially for the AWD version. I know a lot of people that wanted a f80 M3/M4 that ended up getting a M340 or another M model car that is awd just based on the fact that with rwd it wouldn't be a reliable daily up here in the north east. Also for people who are going to drag race them are most likely going with the AWD to get better launches. I'm even planning to get the AWD M3 next year, but if lived in state like Florida I wouldn't care for the awd

People are so averse to getting snow tires and automatically default to this mindset that AWD as "more usable" year round. I don't think many people realize just how usable snow tires make a car.

I understand if it snows so much that you need AWD for months at a time, but in the majority of states, esp in the North East you really only need AWD for a few days.

I'd rather rent a car, Uber/Lyft, get a beater, or carpool then have an AWD for those handful of days where you really really need it.

Cant comment on track use or drag race use, but if that's your jam, then go for it. I don't know how this BMW AWD/RWD system is, but without a manual it makes it a no go (for me). This is completely anecdotal, but I still think the manual RWD take rate will be higher than predicted by these percentages, and I hope it is bc someone needs to keep making a stick shift.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

Watch this becoming the most sold M3/M4 despite being launched in the midst of a pandemic and with BEVs eating into the luxury market with ever-increasing vengeance. The MT, RWD, AWD, Touring and overall increased excellence across segments should pay dividends. Grills be damned

This is very likely, because they made it more mainstream, washed down. It is also the reason why it is not longer the car for me.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

Cheapest M you can buy is probably in the US.

It’s actually in Canada, and has been as such for quite a few years now.

[M2Cmtl]

yeah, I get it. They want to sell more cars. But this will be way more mainstream then previous generations. Expect to see loads of these on the road in a year or two.

[Sjokosaus]

Originally Posted by robopp

41% of expected sales in the US, but let's design it for the Asian market? <shakes head>

you are literally contradicting yourself. If BMW expects 41% of sales from USA that just means it's a design based on the US market.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

This is very likely, because they made it more mainstream, washed down. It is also the reason why it is not longer the car for me.

This has been occurring iteration over iteration. This was the same complaint made about the F8X in the beginning.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

Cheapest M you can buy is probably in the US. This generation of M is so screwed because of carbon taxes with the new CO2 rating, making it well over 100k€ car for europeans (UK is not really europe and is more gentle for performance cars). That's also why there is no manual except in very few countries in EU, because the CO2 emissions is higher on those and would make the car more expensive than the auto most likely (was already the case with the M2).

Not surprised to see the biggest share in the US where the car is basically half price as the other side of the Atlantic.

That being said all these last gen pure ICE cars value will probably rocket once it's forbidden to sell new ones. Especially if battery range and charging speed is still so bad and no real solutions for track days for those type of cars yet. Might as well buy the last ones while you can... I personally will get the G81 when available just because it's going to be the last of its kind and it's going to cost me well over 140k € XD

The downfall of manual in Europe is however not due to taxes. Even in countries where there is no tax difference between auto and manual the manual share of market is very low. Was quoted between 5 and 10% for M2 when buying a manual M2C in 2018. This is even lower on M3/M4 and I am pretty sure no dealership here will have a manual G80/G82 on demo or in the showroom.

[TheStanman]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

That being said all these last gen pure ICE cars value will probably rocket once it's forbidden to sell new ones. Especially if battery range and charging speed is still so bad and no real solutions for track days for those type of cars yet. Might as well buy the last ones while you can.

I agree that used ICE vehicles will likely increase in value once new ICE sales are banned. However, I think it'll be the most "pure" ICE vehicles (GT350, M2CS, GT3/4, etc) that benefit the most because it'll be focused on experience rather than performance.

The biggest risk to this theory is that ICE are banned from driving on public roads, which we are starting to see in some European cities.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by TheStanman

I agree that used ICE vehicles will likely increase in value once new ICE sales are banned. However, I think it'll be the most "pure" ICE vehicles (GT350, M2CS, GT3/4, etc) that benefit the most because it'll be focused on experience rather than performance.

The biggest risk to this theory is that ICE are banned from driving on public roads, which we are starting to see in some European cities.

I don't think we'll see that happen here in the U.S., but that sucks for Europe.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

People are so averse to getting snow tires and automatically default to this mindset that AWD as "more usable" year round. I don't think many people realize just how usable snow tires make a car.

I understand if it snows so much that you need AWD for months at a time, but in the majority of states, esp in the North East you really only need AWD for a few days.

I'd rather rent a car, Uber/Lyft, get a beater, or carpool then have an AWD for those handful of days where you really really need it.

Cant comment on track use or drag race use, but if that's your jam, then go for it. I don't know how this BMW AWD/RWD system is, but without a manual it makes it a no go (for me). This is completely anecdotal, but I still think the manual RWD take rate will be higher than predicted by these percentages, and I hope it is bc someone needs to keep making a stick shift.

I concur. I run snow tires all winter and find my RWD M3's have out performed Quattro Audi's I owned with all season tires.

[killhour]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

People are so averse to getting snow tires and automatically default to this mindset that AWD as "more usable" year round. I don't think many people realize just how usable snow tires make a car.

I understand if it snows so much that you need AWD for months at a time, but in the majority of states, esp in the North East you really only need AWD for a few days.

I'd rather rent a car, Uber/Lyft, get a beater, or carpool then have an AWD for those handful of days where you really really need it.

Cant comment on track use or drag race use, but if that's your jam, then go for it. I don't know how this BMW AWD/RWD system is, but without a manual it makes it a no go (for me). This is completely anecdotal, but I still think the manual RWD take rate will be higher than predicted by these percentages, and I hope it is bc someone needs to keep making a stick shift.

I'm looking for AWD because 500 HP is just too much for the rears. (Basing this on my friend's C63s with 503 and my DB9 with 540). If I'm paying that much for the power, I want to be able to put it down all the time off the line. Being able to smoke the rears on demand is fun, but you can still do that in the AWD with a button press. Still going to put winters on between October and March.

That being said, my local dealership (Buffalo) has sold 4 of them so far - all manuals in white or black.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by killhour

I'm looking for AWD because 500 HP is just too much for the rears. (Basing this on my friend's C63s with 503 and my DB9 with 540). If I'm paying that much for the power, I want to be able to put it down all the time off the line. Being able to smoke the rears on demand is fun, but you can still do that in the AWD with a button press. Still going to put winters on between October and March.

That being said, my local dealership (Buffalo) has sold 4 of them so far - all manuals in white or black.

My dealers have sold their cars as well.

[GOLFFRR]

hmm interesting.

[cubsnlinux]

Originally Posted by danf72

I agree that BEVs are the bigger factor that will impact G8x sales.

But do not think for a second that a Tesla depreciates slower than a BMW. I learned that the hard way. A Model S depreciates exactly like any other luxury vehicle, and probably worse. If anything, the G8x will not depreciate as badly because it's the last of its kind.

May be I should have elaborated a bit more. Because of the uptick in BEV sales and the noose tightening around ICE technology there is an added implicit drop in value. This will not affect the crowd that to date enjoy and take pride in stick shifts. For the overwhelming majority that has moved on to automatics they see Tesla/Lucid/Rivian etc. as their next car of choice both for bragging and performance. A family of 5 that goes on a joy ride through a scenic route once in a while appreciate the lack of rear hump in a BEV. I I love the G8x and care less about the grill because it's "ugliness" is a drop in the bucket compared to everything else it offers. Long story short, folks who want to get a M3 will get one, grill or not. People on the fence and the new generation see the latest ICE cars as cassette players.

[low135]

Originally Posted by solstice

The M4 now looks like a $120k car and you can have it for sub $80k. They are going to be popular today and as resell later if they are reliable which they should be (very) borrowing a proven engine from the X3M and a proven driveline from the M5 (transmission and Xdrive).

The M4 looks like a $40k infiniti.....

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by BimmerFix

M is the only & correct option at that price point.

Either that or you fork up for a P-Car.

Regardless of manual or auto.

No other vehicle gives you the performance, everyday drivability, & dual purpose ness of an M3/M4.

Just my opinion of course . Yes there's Vettes, Mustangs, Alfa Romeos, & C' AMG .

But overall package , I think BMW does it the best.

Very well said. The most balanced package at the right price will lead to a convincing sales volume. I think BMW got it right regardless of aesthetics which some do not find appealing.

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Very well said. The most balanced package at the right price will lead to a convincing sales volume. I think BMW got it right regardless of aesthetics which some do not find appealing.

Can't say they got it right if you haven't driven the car nor read/watched reviews on the G8x (if you put stock in that sort of thing, ofcourse). Jk

[walmark]

Originally Posted by Sjokosaus

you are literally contradicting yourself. If BMW expects 41% of sales from USA that just means it's a design based on the US market.

I think there is a misunderstanding. The snout design is not M-car specific!

The 418/420/430 models for "the masses" have a similar ugly snout, will probably outsell the M-cars 10:1 or 20:1, and might have a dramatically different regional sales distribution.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

Why does everyone think the design was catered to Asia?

It's definitely not everyone, but yes, there is a small, vocal minority that believes nonsense like this.

The reason is simple: bigotry is a thing and confirmation bias is also a thing.