[CMW33]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

Absolutely right!

Cup2s are definitely on my list; however, several Porsche guys were not very complimentary of them, they seem to prefer RE71RS or Advan 0052 type tires. Talking to the BMW guys, they recommended GoodYear Super something 3, which I will check out as well. I walked around the paddock checking tires of various cars, besides many slick tires, preferences varied a lot, I did not see a lot consistency. I think that is a good thing, there must be many choices out there. I am also wondering about the Nankang CRS tires. Next event will be with the BMW club, I'll talk with that group as well.

RE: the goodyear tire: they are talking about Goodyear Supercar 3 or possibly the Supercar 3R. I think both come in something like 285/35/19 and 285/30/20. I may be wrong on sizing but I think they have sizes you can make work on stock wheels.

The Cup2s are fine in the rain if: you drive conservatively, you are avoiding standing water, and they aren't severely worn. But as a consumable, they get expensive fast compared to something like the A052 or RE71RS. I speak from personal experience. I cannot speak to the Cup2R though.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I experimented with Normal setting for brakes initially, then I tried Sport for the sake of trying, and it felt much better. The 'better' part wasn't about how applied the braking, but more during the release of the brakes. I was much smoother releasing the brakes, but I cannot say why that was the case. So, I left it in Sport afterwards.

Other M settings that worked really well for me were:
- Engine: Sport
- Suspension: Sport+
- Trans: S3
- MDM
- AWD Sport

Did you happen to try 4WD with DSC on? MDM can still introduce a lot of slip angle and I’ve actually lost traction in MDM / 4WD sport at the big end of a track at about 120mph after hitting a bump and wet spot even though the car was going perfectly straight.

For low temp track days 4WD might actually be faster out of tight corners and DSC on isn’t much of a penalty given the safety net it provides.

Something to consider until the temps warm up.

[Hit_Apex]

Also curious why MDM with all the reports of rear brake wear and since you have M TC. Start your day in 9 or 8 and work your way towards 6 as you learn/reacquaint the track and car behavior. Trying various settings will accelerate confidence and reinforce corrective inputs in stages. I may be splitting hairs but something to consider next time. Awesome write up and video.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by CMW33

RE: the goodyear tire: they are talking about Goodyear Supercar 3 or possibly the Supercar 3R. I think both come in something like 285/35/19 and 285/30/20. I may be wrong on sizing but I think they have sizes you can make work on stock wheels.

The Cup2s are fine in the rain if: you drive conservatively, you are avoiding standing water, and they aren't severely worn. But as a consumable, they get expensive fast compared to something like the A052 or RE71RS. I speak from personal experience. I cannot speak to the Cup2R though.

I appreciate the feedback on Cup2s. And yes, they were talking about the "Supercar 3" of Goodyears. In those sizes you mention, maybe the best way to go is buying two new 20" wheels for the fronts matching the rears, and going square with 285/30/20s.
Thank you!

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

Did you happen to try 4WD with DSC on? MDM can still introduce a lot of slip angle and I’ve actually lost traction in MDM / 4WD sport at the big end of a track at about 120mph after hitting a bump and wet spot even though the car was going perfectly straight.

For low temp track days 4WD might actually be faster out of tight corners and DSC on isn’t much of a penalty given the safety net it provides.

Something to consider until the temps warm up.

Yes, I forgot to mention. During first day, on damp track, I left full DSC on, but still used 4WD Sport. There are so many settings frankly... I just wanted to drive

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Also curious why MDM with all the reports of rear brake wear and since you have M TC. Start your day in 9 or 8 and work your way towards 6 as you learn/reacquaint the track and car behavior. Trying various settings will accelerate confidence and reinforce corrective inputs in stages. I may be splitting hairs but something to consider next time. Awesome write up and video.

Thank you!

This being my firs track day with the car, I did not have the confidence to turn off the nannies. Also, I ran in 4WD Sport, not RWD, so the traction control levels weren't available, unlike your CSL

Next event, if dry and sunny, I will turn off the nannies and just drive. The car feels easy to drive to me (again, given my level and speeds), but I am assuming I would have seen the MDM flashing if it was intervening. The only way to find out is to turn it off and see what happens.

[evanescent03]

nice! I enjoyed my G80 M3CS for a single event and it was at Summit Point also! Fun track. I absolutely blew through my brake pads (and into my rotors) shockingly. The car stopped great the whole time though and man was it fun! Glad you got to enjoy it in that environment…

My car also had a nice blued appearance to the muffler afterwards and my license plate frame melted!! crazy.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

My car also had a nice blued appearance to the muffler afterwards and my license plate frame melted!! crazy.

Haha, that is too funny, although I know what you mean. Thankfully, no sign of melting on mine, yet!?

[FLOSS M]

Did you take the part out of the front of the wheel well to help with brake cooling ?

[omgdee]

Just wow 🤩

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

How dare you drive that car at 40 degrees and those tires!!! According to many Karens on this forum, you have to be an idiot to not put winter tires on in those conditions You could have hit black ice and killed a whole family. Hope you can sleep at knowing you played Russian roulette this past weekend. This is 1000% sarcasm by the way. Cool write up bud. Keep driving the shit out of her.

There’s so many things that could have gone wrong. 1-2 psi off will cause cars to skip a curb, water bottles left in trunk, needing to avoid the kid on the tricycle on the track etc.

Awesome job on the track event.

[SexyRoger]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I took BoB to Summit Point Main circuit for the PCA event this past weekend. I am so glad I did

For reference, here is the track map:

Attachment 3418591

The event started grim with heavy rains that lasted until about noon, leaving a wet track with few rivers across the track. Thankfully, most of the track dried out by early afternoon with few spots left damp. Unfortunately, those few spots were at the critical points on the track that caught me by surprise, such as at the turn-in of T3.

I was nervous and anxious even before the event, and I did not want to run in the rain, so I skipped the first two sessions of the first day. I got onto the track in the afternoon and ran conservatively trying to figure out my bearings and settling down my nerves. It was overwhelming, everything coming at me at the same time, I felt a bit of overloading of the brain. The last session of the day, I focused on slowing down my perception, observing the track, the drivers, flag stations, etc. This helped tremendously. I was able to concentrate on getting into a rhythm, running the driving line, ensuring I gave timely point-bys. The best I could do was to test the car, trying to understand how it communicates, figuring out the tires, the gearing and see how well the brakes would hold up. All looked promising, except the tires.

The paddock:

Attachment 3418317

There were about a dozen BMWs in the event, from E36/E46 M3s, F90 M5 to F87 M2s and a Z4:

Attachment 3418315

The next day was much better, although we started at below freezing temperatures. First session, again, I focused on my surroundings, and maintaining a rhythm and not being in the way of other drivers. The tires, the Michelin PS4S, were clearly the weakest point of the car for this type of driving. Regardless, this first session increased my confidence and I started to enjoy being on the track.

In subsequent sessions, my confidence and my speed increased steadily. I was certainly catching other cars on the straights with so much power on tap, but also under braking, which was surprising to me. However, I was losing a lot of ground to others in the infield. Regardless of my confidence, I asked an instructor to ride with me to point out any bad habits I might have developed, areas for improvement and hopefully a validation that I am doing okay in the run group, not overdoing anything.

The instructor was superb. He corrected my braking technique, entry into turns 3 and 6, which all combined, made for a much smoother ride and faster laps. The feedback was invaluable, and he confirmed that I was running in the right group, intermediate. Following this feedback, in my last session of the event, I felt I was much faster, safer and smoother at the same time.

About the car's performance:

I bought this car for multiple duties. To use it as a daily driver, run a few autoxes and hopefully be able to go to a few track events as well. I always had the impression that BMWs need, at least, a moderate amount of modifications to be able to hold their own on track, and possibly compromise streetability a little in the process. So, buying this car was a bit of a gamble. The gamble paid off beyond my expectations. The only modifications I did to the car was install track brake pads, change brake fluid, and add cooling ducts to the front brakes.

Power - This is the first car I had in which I have to be careful how I apply the throttle. It has more power than grip. This is such a good feeling as I could squeeze the throttle and get significant acceleration out of the corners, and know that I still have more I can apply as the track straightens. Other cars were doing all they can to get out of my way on the straights, giving very early point-bys. The rate of closure to other cars on the straights was something I was not expecting. At the end of the front straight of the track, the car would reach 150+ mph, but frankly I had a mental block getting to that number, I would back off just before reaching that speed and hit the brakes into T1. The perception of that speed was not something I was quite prepared for.

The only aspect that might be considered negative was fuel consumption. A full tank lasted only 3 sessions, and I was averaging about 5.5 mpg per session. I can live with this given the performance. The problem was that the fuel cost $6/gallon at the track

Cooling the engine after a session:

Attachment 3418316

Handling - The suspension setup on the M3CS is nearly perfect for my taste and level of driving. I set it to Sport+ and it never felt jarring or unsettling, even going over the curbs. The only time I wished it had a bit more shock support was when going through high-speed directional changes, such as between turns 8 and 9. I was just breathing the throttle momentarily to help with that transition. I think I now understand why some companies are suggesting an increase in the front swaybar, which I think might help.
The car never felt heavy, floaty or slow in any parts of the track. The camber and caster settings are certainly more than adequate for my level of driving and the tires I have. The level of compromise setup by BMW just feels right in my opinion.

Brakes - Phenomenal, just phenomenal! On the straights and particularly under braking I would close the gap I lost in the in-field to other cars. The consistency of the brakes were superb. There was never a hint of fade, degradation or worry about the brakes.

The first time I hit the brakes approaching T1, the instructor who was riding with me during that session just could not help but laugh. He got slammed to the seat belt, he just wasn’t expecting it. He would continue to giggle through all of the other turns when I had to use significant braking. They are just flawless.

On the front straight we would reach 145-150 mph and that leads to one of the slowest corners, T1, which is taken at 40-45 mph. Shedding 100+ mph lap after lap is very demanding on the brakes. The M3 never exhibited any signs of weakness, and consistently they performed.

I ran with MDM on, and the rear brakes are not showing any signs of overuse at this time; granted this is at my level of intermediate driving, it may vary for others.

Tires - There is so much to say about the tires. In short, the PS4S is certainly not the right tire for track events, particularly for intermediate and lower level drivers. Better and more experienced drivers can probably manage them more effectively, but then again, their speed would be much higher, demanding more from the tires. I don’t think these tires are suitable for anyone on track. They are superb on the street and even autox, but track driving needs a lot more. They gained heat way too much and too quickly. They behave noticeably inconsistently as they go through different pressures and eventually become rather greasy, but not dangerously so. My tires would gain between 10-12 psi within the first 6 or 7 laps, and track temperatures were not any higher than 45-50 deg.

The best part of this adventure was on the way back home. After the track “abuse,” I just got in and drove home as if I was at work or shopping. There weren’t any unwanted or strange noises, the drive was as comfortable as always. Everything was as designed, no objections of any kind. This is what I had hoped I was buying, there are no disappointments of any king. We’ll see how it holds up to multiple track days, but this has been a very encouraging start.

This is a 5 min. video of a session. My phone mount failed and could not record any, but one session. Also to note, contrary to what this video may imply, I got passed many times by much faster drivers. I hope you enjoy it.

Very quick in the straight, the miata was pulling away from you on the corners and you can definitely see the weight of the car as you go through turns. That old Cayman did sound pretty good too.

How did the brakes do after a few laps? The F80 comp would fail as the tires warmed and the 911 would just keep going on and on and on and on.

CS Looks quick in the straights. The 911 seemed to miss one of the Apex, then you wizzed past.

This just makes me want the track to open here...

[GOLFFRR]

nice post Bob

[my911fixxx]

Flipping Awesome!!! Thanks for sharing!!! Nice Work

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by FLOSS M

Did you take the part out of the front of the wheel well to help with brake cooling ?

I did, and added coolind ducts.

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

Very quick in the straight, the miata was pulling away from you on the corners and you can definitely see the weight of the car as you go through turns. That old Cayman did sound pretty good too.

How did the brakes do after a few laps? The F80 comp would fail as the tires warmed and the 911 would just keep going on and on and on and on.

CS Looks quick in the straights. The 911 seemed to miss one of the Apex, then you wizzed past.

This just makes me want the track to open here...

Yeah, there is no way of catching the Miatas in the infield, or the Z4

Brakes were superb, lap after lap, very strong and consistent.

[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

Tires - There is so much to say about the tires. In short, the PS4S is certainly not the right tire for track events, particularly for intermediate and lower level drivers. Better and more experienced drivers can probably manage them more effectively, but then again, their speed would be much higher, demanding more from the tires. I don’t think these tires are suitable for anyone on track. They are superb on the street and even autox, but track driving needs a lot more. They gained heat way too much and too quickly. They behave noticeably inconsistently as they go through different pressures and eventually become rather greasy, but not dangerously so. My tires would gain between 10-12 psi within the first 6 or 7 laps, and track temperatures were not any higher than 45-50 deg.

The fact that it was relatively cold outside is precisely the reason why your tire pressure went up dramatically. The same would not have happened on a warmer day.

Think about it. Cold air is denser, so you need more air to reach a certain PSI threshold on a cold day. As the air warms up, it expands (which means PSI goes up). If you were starting with warmer air, there would be less of a change in temperature after multiple laps.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

The fact that it was relatively cold outside is precisely the reason why your tire pressure went up dramatically. The same would not have happened on a warmer day.

Think about it. Cold air is denser, so you need more air to reach a certain PSI threshold on a cold day. As the air warms up, it expands (which means PSI goes up). If you were starting with warmer air, there would be less of a change in temperature after multiple laps.

I hope you are right. Maybe during the May event, I'll be able to better manage the tires. It would certainly improve the fun factor

Thank you.

[adc]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

The fact that it was relatively cold outside is precisely the reason why your tire pressure went up dramatically. The same would not have happened on a warmer day.

Think about it. Cold air is denser, so you need more air to reach a certain PSI threshold on a cold day. As the air warms up, it expands (which means PSI goes up). If you were starting with warmer air, there would be less of a change in temperature after multiple laps.

Sorry, but this is most emphatically not true. I mean yes to the physics, but the pressures will go up significantly. The CS is a heavy fast car, it will definitely heat up the tires and the brakes.

Even in the middle of summer, I start my first morning session at 26PSI, to end up at 34-35PSI hot.

For the rest of the sessions, it depends on how much the tires get to cool down in between runs. So ambient temps, sunny vs. cloudy, which side of the car gets heated by the sun - all are variables the driver must take into considerations. In my case, I re-adjust the tire pressures before each run - not doing so tends to ruin both the fun and the tires. Since the M cars come with a tire compressor, why not.

After a year on track you tend to develop a sense for it.

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I really appreciate the guidance, thank you. I don't think I am ready for R-comps, so the Cup2Rs would be a bit too much for me. I think I need tires that I do not need to change before/after events, use them daily, four seasons and have tires that would not go to 45 psi during a session



Yes, I know about RRT, they are really great I hear. They are a bit far away from me though.

I had the car aligned before the event. I called several shops around, including RRT, and none would do the alignment either with weight on the seat or while I am sitting in the car. I finally found a local shop that agreed, so I had it done there. I sat in the car and had great chat with the owner, who was from Columbia and huge racing fan Interestingly, after the alignment, he said "you know, it is great you are taking this car to the track, but just know that your tires will give you issues."

I hope we'll get to meet during one of the events, would love to chat more. I am constantly monitoring Discord now haha, some really fun stuff.

Which shop did your alignment

[My M3]

Great read, thanks for posting. I know you will continue to enjoy

[butraymond]

nice car! I’m in the black m2c.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by PDOT

Which shop did your alignment

Carstar Collusion Repair, https://maps.app.goo.gl/sNoPHohFTrM1hEPr6?g_st=ic

Originally Posted by butraymond

nice car! I’m in the black m2c.

Awesome! Impressive driving

[edi221]

Did you take the part out of the front of the wheel well to help with brake cooling ?

Hello, question from the other end of the corner. What did you mean by this? Is there a photo to show?

Thank you.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by edi221

Hello, question from the other end of the corner. What did you mean by this? Is there a photo to show?

Thank you.

You can see it in this video @ 46 sec. mark: