[///AVM]

weinerj100

Thank you for the kind words.

I am not loyal to a brand; only to my own driving entertainment.

///M cars have been ticking the boxes, but I always keep an open mind toward what's next.

Thank you for sharing your QV experience.

///AVM

[cpippolo]

When the Alfa came out I was sure I was going to get it. It sounded like a fantastic car, and being of Italian descent the make of the car had some appeal. I must have configured a car a dozen times on their website. Then I read the reviews from the major car magazines, and I recall that every one of them had major problems arise during the test drives. In cars presumably hand picked by Alfa. The quality just wasn't there, and this was going to be a daily driver for me. I eventually got an M2C, and after a couple of years I decide it wasn't practical or comfortable enough for me (but like my other BMWs, has been bulletprrof and a blast to drive, even with a somewhat balky 6-speed). So I ordered a G80 M3C that I'm picking up at PCD Friday. I have not driven the Alfa, but based on all the reviews and member comments it seems like a great car to drive. I'm guessing it will bring a smile to the driver's face every time they drive with enthusiasm, and the design certainly has some flair. But the G80 is also pretty fantastic, and I gravitated towards the greater comfort, tech and reliability of the G80. But I get why someone would pick the Alfa. Its been out for a while now so hopefully they've solved most of the quality problems, but not a chance I was willing to take.

[Jacky Treehorn]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Jacky

My prior post pretty much went ignored; I suspect I did not glamor enough over the G80C . . . which I really do like a lot.

Your comments are spot one . . . 'better' for who? Only each individual can determine the answer.

I am very intrigued by this QV that I have never even driven or given much prior thought . . . seems the G80C has prompted quite a bit of quality QV advertisement on Bimmerpost.

I am now personally really interested to give this QV a spin. I have no doubt it is a performer. Curious to know if the QV 'it factor' involves that rawness that, for example, the F87C possesses. . . and the G80C seems to lack?

The 'raw' versus 'refined' topic is a real tough one for me because it almost suggests the refinement is a bad thing. In fact, the refinement reflects advanced performance as much as it does, for example, interior comfort features. Just seems improved performance is tied to this 'refinement' that enthusiasts, such as myself, have a difficult time syntheszing.

Anyway, my working assumption is the QV possesses an element of rawness that I THINK, in comparison, is missing in the G80C???

///AVM

It's like choosing between a Ducati Panigale vs BMW S 1000RR. V twin vs Inline, German vs Italian. Both great bikes, both accomplish similar things, just slightly different in some ways. You'll ride both bikes and either choose one or the other based on your experience. Some of it is totally intangible. I could elaborate a lot more on these two cars and plan to do a Youtube review at some point on my long term experience owning a QV, I'll send ya a PM when I get around to posting it !

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I suspect that with a better exterior design, the M3 would have won.

The Motor Trend comparo is the outlier. Every other comparo has the G8X coming out ahead.

I don't find anything Alfa makes to be attractive in design.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The Motor Trend comparo is the outlier. Every other comparo has the G8X coming out ahead.

Not really, I’ve seen others where the Giulia came on top.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not really, I've seen others where the Giulia came on top.

Such a strong showing from Alfa to absolutely obliterate the F80 and maintain an edge over the G80 as well. Just wish they'd had the balls to make it with a stick

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Such a strong showing from Alfa to absolutely obliterate the F80 and maintain an edge over the G80 as well. Just wish they'd had the balls to make it with a stick

Not really, the F8X finished ahead of the Giulia QV more often than it finished behind in comparative reviews…

Win some, lose some, it depends on the reviewers preferences.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not really, the F8X finished ahead of the Giulia QV more often than it finished behind in comparative reviews…

Win some, lose some, it depends on the reviewers preferences.

Huh, maybe we just remember differently.
I remember the F80 getting taken to task for poor interior materials, rough transmission, bad torque curve, lack of steering feel, etc. it really got hammered on launch.

Conversely, I remember the Alfa essentially be the darling of the auto world (reliability aside) essentially since the jump.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Such a strong showing from Alfa to absolutely obliterate the F80 and maintain an edge over the G80 as well. Just wish they'd had the balls to make it with a stick

dialogical

Please fact check me on this, but I BELIEVE Alpha did offer the MT in certain markets and it did not go over too well.

Kind of odd that I really had no interest, or even much knowledge of the QV until I took G80C ownership and started following this subform.

Now I am quite intrigued and would like to take one of these babies for a spin . . . see what they are all about.

///AVM

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

dialogical

Please fact check me on this, but I BELIEVE Alpha did offer the MT in certain markets and it did not go over too well.

Kind of odd that I really had no interest, or even much knowledge of the QV until I took G80C ownership and started following this subform.

Now I am quite intrigued and would like to take one of these babies for a spin . . . see what they are all about.

///AVM

It did, 2 years, EU only.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Huh, maybe we just remember differently.
I remember the F80 getting taken to task for poor interior materials, rough transmission, bad torque curve, lack of steering feel, etc. it really got hammered on launch.

Conversely, I remember the Alfa essentially be the darling of the auto world (reliability aside) essentially since the jump.

Just to state a few F8X wins over the Giulia from a quick search:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1345187
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1382408
https://www.pistonheads.com/features...mg-c63-s/36258

Like I said, win some, lose some...

[Macheins]

I believe the simple fact that so many people are comparing the QV to the new G80 is a testament to just how much Alfa Romeo really did nail the Giorgio platform. There's a reason so many M3/M4 owners are in here saying good things about the car as well.

The QV driving experience is just excellent. I have a lot of love for my F80, but I admittedly have more fun when I drive my wife's QV. I think the upgrades that Alfa made to specifically target the interior quality were the right move and if you asked me to pick a G80 or QV today, that would be a hard choice. This is why we picked both, I'm ordering a G80 (parting with the F80) and keeping the QV.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Huh, maybe we just remember differently.
I remember the F80 getting taken to task for poor interior materials, rough transmission, bad torque curve, lack of steering feel, etc. it really got hammered on launch.

Conversely, I remember the Alfa essentially be the darling of the auto world (reliability aside) essentially since the jump.

I remember same as CanAutM3, some preferred the F8x some preferred the Alfa, but the F8x had the slight edge overall. Chris Harris summed it up (go to the 7:26 mark):

"So is it as good as an [F80] M3? Objectively, no, I don't think it is. But it's not a million miles off."

[02M3ForMe]

Test drove the QV again. I'm going to reserve ultimate judgment on the QV because the car I tested had exterior mods and non-standard Hankook tires and I'm not confident that the car was stock (engine yes, suspension no).

Sitting in the car, it's very "M2" - small and tight. I think that's a good thing, and the interior quality compares much more favorably to the F87 than to the G8x.

The steering is very fast and light, noticeably faster than the G8x's, but my impression of this particular car is that the steering is faster than the chassis. Coming out of the composed G82, the Alfa body moved around more than I'd like. Lots of "wiggle" when making aggressive movements; the hypersensitivity of the controls felt less like the true sharpness of a flat-cornering sports car and more like just an extremely aggressive calibration (I drove in Dynamic the entire time). My instant impression was that it lacked refinement, especially in comparison to the G8x. The G8x has a significantly smaller latency between input and chassis response and stays stable at higher loads, both qualities which inspire confidence. Coming out of my G82, I did not find this specific QV particularly confidence-inspiring.

The steering, while super fast, did not seem meaningfully more communicative than the G8x's. In fact, paired with the rack's speed, I found dialing in appropriate turn-in on fast, tight corners to be less natural than I was hoping. This is very different from my experience with the 992 C2S and C4S a couple of weeks ago, where cliche words like "telepathic" instantly came to mind. The car does grip hard when asked, so the capability is there.

Exhaust sounded great. Inspired lots of shifting to hear it do different things. The transmission is great; shifts quickly, and always gave me the gear I asked for. The paddles themselves are fantastic and increase the fun factor. Throttle in Dynamic was a bit sensitive, contributing to the impression of an overall lack of smoothness to the controls (I'm sure I can get acclimated and tame it with more seat time). Engine is great, though tails off past 7000. It seemed to really hustle when short shifted around 6500. Made one tailgater instantly disappear with impressive ease. Brakes, which were an issue at low speeds during my first test drive, were fine this time.

I'm still interested in learning more about it. The exhaust, G8x-like speed, grip, looks, steering, and all the historical positive feedback have my attention. It provides a better experience than an F8x, which is impressive for a fresh entry from practically out of nowhere. I'm going to test drive a known bone-stock QV next week.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Test drove the QV again. I'm going to reserve ultimate judgment on the QV because the car I tested had exterior mods and non-standard Hankook tires and I'm not confident that the car was stock (engine yes, suspension no).

Sitting in the car, it's very "M2" - small and tight. I think that's a good thing, and the interior quality compares much more favorably to the F87 than to the G8x.

The steering is very fast and light, noticeably faster than the G8x's, but my impression of this particular car is that the steering is faster than the chassis. Coming out of the composed G82, the Alfa body moved around more than I'd like. Lots of "wiggle" when making aggressive movements; the hypersensitivity of the controls felt less like the true sharpness of a flat-cornering sports car and more like just an extremely aggressive calibration (I drove in Dynamic the entire time). My instant impression was that it lacked refinement, especially in comparison to the G8x. The G8x has a significantly smaller latency between input and chassis response and stays stable at higher loads, both qualities which inspire confidence. Coming out of my G82, I did not find this specific QV particularly confidence-inspiring.

The steering, while super fast, did not seem meaningfully more communicative than the G8x's. In fact, paired with the rack's speed, I found dialing in appropriate turn-in on fast, tight corners to be less natural than I was hoping. This is very different from my experience with the 992 C2S and C4S a couple of weeks ago, where cliche words like "telepathic" instantly came to mind. The car does grip hard when asked, so the capability is there.

Exhaust sounded great. Inspired lots of shifting to hear it do different things. The transmission is great; shifts quickly, and always gave me the gear I asked for. The paddles themselves are fantastic and increase the fun factor. Throttle in Dynamic was a bit sensitive, contributing to the impression of an overall lack of smoothness to the controls (I'm sure I can get acclimated and tame it with more seat time). Engine is great, though tails off past 7000. It seemed to really hustle when short shifted around 6500. Made one tailgater instantly disappear with impressive ease. Brakes, which were an issue at low speeds during my first test drive, were fine this time.

I'm still interested in learning more about it. The exhaust, G8x-like speed, grip, looks, steering, and all the historical positive feedback have my attention. It provides a better experience than an F8x, which is impressive for a fresh entry from practically out of nowhere. I'm going to test drive a known bone-stock QV next week.

Solid write-up bro!

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Test drove the QV again. . . I'm going to test drive a known bone-stock QV next week.

O2

Great write-up. . . thank you for sharing!

Sounds like you drove an older model year???

If so, from the video I posted previously it sounds like many of the 'shortcomings' you feel existed have been addressed . . . or at least attempted to do so in the 2021 model.

Perhaps you could tell me your thoughts on the video and how it relates to your experience?

I do not know the guy in the video, but he seems like an unbiased and knowledgable enthusiast with some serious Alpha ownership experience.

Thank you again

///AVM

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

O2

Great write-up. . . thank you for sharing!

Sounds like you drove an older model year???

If so, from the video I posted previously it sounds like many of the 'shortcomings' you feel existed have been addressed . . . or at least attempted to do so in the 2021 model.

Perhaps you could tell me your thoughts on the video and how it relates to your experience?

I do not the guy in the video, but he seems like an unbiased and knowledgable enthusiast with some serious Alpha ownership experience.

Thank you again

///AVM

Just a heads up - I watched that guy's videos for a long time when he had the GT350.

He's crazy biased towards the cars he owns, and I wouldn't consider anything he produces a "review".

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Just a heads up - I watched that guy's videos for a long time when he had the GT350.

He's crazy biased towards the cars he owns, and I wouldn't consider anything he produces a "review".

Damn . . . he seems to be pretty reasonable in comparing his older QV to his newer QV . . . but I am not immune to fuckery.

Thank you Dialogical

///AVM

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Solid write-up bro!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by ///AVM

O2

Great write-up. . . thank you for sharing!

Sounds like you drove an older model year???

If so, from the video I posted previously it sounds like many of the 'shortcomings' you feel existed have been addressed . . . or at least attempted to do so in the 2021 model.

Perhaps you could tell me your thoughts on the video and how it relates to your experience?

I do not the guy in the video, but he seems like an unbiased and knowledgable enthusiast with some serious Alpha ownership experience.

Thank you again

///AVM

Thank you!

I watched that video before going in for the test drive, and I specifically looked for a pre-2020 car since he noted actual meaningful suspension component differences and preferred the way the earlier cars steered.

The video is a fair and accurate assessment of the car I drove (2018). He mentions the extremely fast steering in Dynamic, which he prefers. He also talks about the soft stock suspension, which is essentially what I observed and noted re: steering too fast for the chassis. He mentions that he modded his 2018, and I'm confident that the steering as calibrated paired with a stiffer car will yield an excellent and racy driving experience. It's why I'm still interested in it. However, with the stock suspension, the updated slower and heavier steering will probably be perceived as an improvement by most since it's likely a better match for the rest of the car. It makes sense to slow it down so that it's easier to be precise on turn-in.

I also got a brief "Service Throttle" error message towards the tail end of the test drive. He mentions the change to port fuel injection, so that may be another important update in favor of going with a newer car.

The QV clearly feels like it's been developed by people who developed the 458. The 458 is another car with hypersensitive controls and can be challenging to be smooth. The difference between the 458 and the QV is that the 458 is a low, wide, mid-engine, 3,200-pound car that eats up aggressive inputs and spits back out pure obedience.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Thank you! . . . The QV clearly feels like it's been developed by people who developed the 458. The 458 is another car with hypersensitive controls and can be challenging to be smooth. The difference between the 458 and the QV is that the 458 is a low, wide, mid-engine, 3,200-pound car that eats up aggressive inputs and spits back out pure obedience.

So, sounds like you are saying the QV has a Ferrari engine . . . but it's not quite a Ferrari.

Let us know how round 2 goes.

///AVM

[02M3ForMe]

Drove the stock 2019 QV with fresh PZero Corsas. It felt like a completely different car. All of the issues that I had with lack of smoothness and issues with the chassis were not present on this car. The car felt like a faster steering G8x with a more interesting exhaust. Frankly, I was thoroughly impressed. I have no idea how BMW managed to sell a single F80 with this on the market back in 2016/2017.

I was very close to trading in as they were prepared to hand me the mint Giulia and a large-enough wad of cash. Ironically, looks are what kept me in my G82. I love the way the G82 looks. The Alfa, while certainly handsome, looks a bit soft and lacks the exaggerated fenders that I like to see on taller non-exotic performance cars. The Alfa interior grew on me; I’m a fan of its size and style and no longer consider it a dealbreaker. Honestly, when pushing the car, it’s easy to overlook everything but that drive.

If you already have a QV and it’s in great condition and has been reliable, I would only trade if you need AWD or 6MT. Otherwise, I recommend keeping the QV. The hype is real.

[basscadet]

How is this surprising? Go to the Rennlist forums and see how well-represented the Alfa is there as a daily driver vs. the M3.

If you care about numbers and stats, by all means...get the M3. If you prioritize the driving experience, want the real driver's car, get the Alfa.

But I'd argue if you really care THAT much about performance numbers/stats and you are on a M4 budget, you should be looking at Corvettes which will smoke the G80 on any track anywhere, any day.