[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by m3nerd

Not sure about who is fastest etc but wanted to say that if you listen to the first 3 seconds of the video I dig the M4 exhaust note! And that's against the hard-to-compete-with flat plane crank NA V8 of the Z06!

Compare this to the new C63 AMG that is a 4 cylinder 2 liter engine... How can they still call it a "63" with a straight face...

We should be happy for what we have.

I want what you are smoking please 😳🤣. The Z06 is in a completely different universe than ANY S-55/S-58 exhaust note. For my ears, the last 2 M 3/4’s are some of the worst if not the they worst sounding sports car at this price range. Maybe I should have my hearing checked😂🦻🏼

[The_Werm]

I’d really like to see a comparison between CSL and GTS on the same day/surface with equal tires.

Has anyone seen this?

[deneed4spd]

Originally Posted by Ristau

"Land Barge"

It's like the exact same weight as the M5 CS (which is a better comparison than the M4 CSL).

GM knows how to make performance cars. This isn't your Grandma's El Dorado. Still think BMW has better quality/tech though

EDIT: I think maybe I'm mistaken what you meant by that. Now that I think about it the way I think you meant, it's pretty pathetic that the M5 CS is beaten out by the standard model CT5V, so it's even more ridiculous that the ultra-light M4 CSL is as well. Sorry about that

It’s confusing but a CT5V is a twin turbo, the CT5V Blackwing is the V8. The blackwing is what beat both, not the CT5V. Still think it’s odd that the M4CSL which has a faster 1/4 mile time still lost to a car that weights 500 lbs more with street tires and minimal aero downforce. The Porsche which is lighter with more aero with less power thrashed the CSL. CSL didn’t fair to well against heavier, minimal aero car. Maybe this is where the clar platform comes short. Gt3 is based on a track platform, same as the alpha GM chasis. But maybe clar is a street chasis and u can only push it so far.

[buckybadger]

M5 CS is so close to the M3 CS on this lap. Why not get the M5 CS as a track car then? It’s probably the more balanced, ride wise and also has more space. I have heard only glowing reviews of it. Heard the chassis and steering tuning is reminiscent of the classic BMWs from the fatherland.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Indeed

Soon we'll have semi-affordable sports cars with Plaid power, less weight, better brakes, and lower placement of the batteries for better COG...imagine how fast they will be around a track??? Available soon by Porsche and Chevrolet at a dealer near you.

The only thing missing will be the sound, but you know manufacturers (and audio engineers) are working on that.

If you love speed and performance, the future is bright for car enthusiasts (and hec, the future is now, people are already placing orders). We got over not having a V8 or V12 soundtrack when many manufacturers went to turbos, we adjusted. My hunch is we'll adjust again. And they'll probably find a way to pump your favorite V8, V12, or turbo V6 soundtrack right into the cabin, right behind your head. It will be a new form of ASD that many will complain about (but some will enjoy it).

In this world, the way it is?

By the time soon comes at least a few of us will probably be dead.

Live for today.

Except that it's not slower than the Blackwing.... You must have missed where they mentioned that these cars were run in "freezing temps" which undoubtedly would have a big impact on traction. The fact that the Blackwing and CSL are virtually even while the CSL was run in freezing temps shows just how much quicker the CSL is if the track conditions were more similar.

So, yet another pointless “test”.

Sigh,
I’d rather see them race against a lambo tractor, paging Mr. Clarkson.

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

I want what you are smoking please 😳🤣. The Z06 is in a completely different universe than ANY S-55/S-58 exhaust note. For my ears, the last 2 M 3/4’s are some of the worst if not the they worst sounding sports car at this price range. Maybe I should have my hearing checked😂🦻🏼

I think the Z06 sounds synthetic and devoid of any texture. Reminds me of an arcade game from the 80’s.

[GOLFFRR]

I saw this the other day, love the production of their vids! Makes them so much more entertaining. Kudos to them for being creative, love it!

[Asymmetrick]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Trying to understand the logic here. The slower car is better because it’s cheaper that is exactly what you are saying here. Can you explain how that matters in terms of track time ? GT3 RS is not exactly $300K car either.

The rationale is straightforward: Compare apples-to-apples. In this case, that would be high performance sports cars at similar price-points.

I was answering a post from someone who was complaining that BMW was not building cars "on par with the competition". My argument is that the price matched competition for the M4 CSL is the 911 Carrera 2S (with similar options). And at that price point, the M4 CSL is not only "on par with the competition", but it beats it handily.

The M4 CSL comparison to the 911 GT3 RS (which is >>$100K more expensive) is just not informative. All other things being equal, a reasonable person would expect a very expensive car to do better than less expensive ones. For example, is it a big surprise that the AMG One beats the 911 GT3 RS on the Nordschleife? I don't think so.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Asymmetrick

The rationale is straightforward: Compare apples-to-apples. In this case, that would be high performance sports cars at similar price-points.

I was answering a post from someone who was complaining that BMW was not building cars "on par with the competition". My argument is that the price matched competition for the M4 CSL is the 911 Carrera 2S (with similar options). And at that price point, the M4 CSL is not only "on par with the competition", but it beats it handily.

The M4 CSL comparison to the 911 GT3 RS (which is >>$100K more expensive) is just not informative. All other things being equal, a reasonable person would expect a very expensive car to do better than less expensive ones. For example, is it a big surprise that the AMG One beats the 911 GT3 RS on the Nordschleife? I don't think so.

for some weird reason Bmw owners (that I am ) love to compare it’s cars to Porsche. Which is pointless IMO. 911 is in completely different league than 4 series bmw. If it is not the case we might as well compare CSL to Buick Grand National. 2 doors after all. None of those cars are comparable. Period.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

for some weird reason Bmw owners (that I am ) love to compare it’s cars to Porsche. Which is pointless IMO. 911 is in completely different league than 4 series bmw. If it is not the case we might as well compare CSL to Buick Grand National. 2 doors after all. None of those cars are comparable. Period.

911 non-GT cars are not in a completely different league than M cars. They're actually quite comparable. G80 Comp and 992 C2S are very much on par, for instance.

You probably haven't driven an M4 CSL hard (or at all), which is why you'd come to an uninformed conclusion like that.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

911 non-GT cars are not in a completely different league than M cars. They're actually quite comparable. G80 Comp and 911 C2S are very much on par, for instance.

You probably haven't driven an M4 CSL hard (or at all), which is why you'd come to an uninformed conclusion like that.

You are right. I didn’t. But two door coupe is not two door sports car so proper 911 competitor would be AMG GT not 4 series bmw. And I will just leave it at that. You can try to compare z4 to Mercedes SL and Bentley continental GT convertible. Not comparable at all. To me at least. Each one is two door convertible. And I don’t have to drive them to know that

[imkevg]

Sheesh.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

You are right. I didn’t. But two door coupe is not two door sports car so proper 911 competitor would be AMG GT not 4 series bmw. And I will just leave it at that. You can try to compare z4 to Mercedes SL and Bentley continental GT convertible. Not comparable at all. To me at least. Each one is two door convertible. And I don’t have to drive them to know that

The comparison is more like Z4 vs. Boxster. Anyway, drive any G8x and 992 and you’ll learn that they’re actually closer than you think.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

You probably haven't driven an M4 CSL hard

Please describe driving hard, conditions etc

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

for some weird reason Bmw owners (that I am ) love to compare it’s cars to Porsche. Which is pointless IMO. 911 is in completely different league than 4 series bmw. If it is not the case we might as well compare CSL to Buick Grand National. 2 doors after all. None of those cars are comparable. Period.

They are comparable. Period. This is coming from somebody that has actually owned 911s and M cars.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

They are comparable. Period. This is coming from somebody that has actually owned 911s and M cars.

They are not. Where 911 starts M3/4 ends.
Period

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

They are not. Where 911 starts M3/4 ends.
Period

Err… you’re wrong. Just check price points but even if you don’t look at price points, the driving experiences are comparable. Period.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Err… you’re wrong. Just check price points but even if you don’t look at price points, the driving experiences are comparable. Period.

Please. Some Bmw owners will tell you that M5 competition and regular M5 is a “whole different experience” suddenly M4 and 911 are comparable ? I own 3 different BMWs but I am not fanboy that uncritically approves whatever brand is doing. So let’s hypothetically compare CSL against regular GT3. Comparison against RS model was totally pointless
Turbo vs NA
In-line vs boxer
Front engine vs rear engine
Virtually no aero vs aero car
I mean how much different two cars can be ? You also can add
Auto vs manual if you wish. Completely different price point.
No they are not comparable. And if they are I don’t know what such a comparison would prove. It’s ridiculous. I’ll leave it at that because it’s obvious to those who know.

[Asymmetrick]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Please. Some Bmw owners will tell you that M5 competition and regular M5 is a “whole different experience” suddenly M4 and 911 are comparable ? I own 3 different BMWs but I am not fanboy that uncritically approves whatever brand is doing. So let’s hypothetically compare CSL against regular GT3.

Sorry but you keep moving the goal post. This debate was started because you stated the following:

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

for some weird reason Bmw owners (that I am ) love to compare it’s cars to Porsche. Which is pointless IMO. 911 is in completely different league than 4 series bmw.

... and you got the following answer:

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

911 non-GT cars are not in a completely different league than M cars. They're actually quite comparable. G80 Comp and 992 C2S are very much on par, for instance.

This is a completely fair response to your point. But now you are trying to move the argument to the CSL vs the GT3. The debate was never about that.

Your point that the "911 is in completely different league than 4 series bmw" does not reflect reality. The G80 Comp compares very well in performance to a 992 C2 or C2S.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Asymmetrick

This is a completely fair response to your point. But now you are trying to move the argument to the CSL vs the GT3. The debate was never about that.

Your point that the "911 is in completely different league than 4 series bmw" does not reflect reality. The G80 Comp compares very well in performance to a 992 C2 or C2S.

Which was it never compared to. I have taken GT3 to stop being ridiculous which comparisons to RS is Check the post title

[Asymmetrick]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Which was it never compared to. I have taken GT3 to stop being ridiculous which comparisons to RS is Check the post title

I appreciate you point. But in all fairness, the issue that a number of us are addressing (in this latest series of posts) is your statement that:

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

911 is in completely different league than 4 series bmw.

... which is just not true. As mentioned before, the G80 Comp performance compares very well to that of the 992 C2 or C2S.

Nobody is debating that the GT3 is a very special car (but it sits at a much higher price point than the CSL, thus making it not a meaningful comparison to the the M4 CSL -> check post #96 for the explanation).

[Rafichicago]

The whole point was this. The thread title is about CSL and GT3rs and Corvette Z06. That was originally the case. I will never change my mind that M4 and 911 are not in the same class of vehicles. They just aren’t. If someone says that choice between the two was made based on practicality it means that shopping for 911 has never happened. The purpose of that car is not practicality and you do not have to see/drive one to know that. They are different vehicles for different purpose. For some weird reason M3M4 owners love to compare those cars. You don’t see that often on Porsche forums. I might’ve deviated from original point and that was a mistake however there’s no need for higher degree to understand what this is about. M3/4 is a great car for what it is at cheaper price point for the most part. It is just not direct competitor. And that is the whole point. Just like S class is not for Flying Spur although I think there’s more in common between those two. F90 that I own also was talked about that it can challenge supercars. Like in what ?0-60 ? I love that car but I also realize what it is and what it isn’t. And I don’t have to own supercar to know that it is phenomenal for what it is. But it’s in different league.