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      12-09-2020, 06:56 AM   #1
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Harman Kardon audio details?

So I ordered 2021 BMW M4 Competition and saw on the standard features was Harman Kardon system. Does anybody know which one it comes with? Thanks
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      12-09-2020, 08:29 AM   #2
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From the BMW (UK) M4 configurator:

"Loudspeaker system - harman/kardon surround sound
Superior surround sound: the outstanding harman/kardon loudspeaker system produces an extremely harmonious sound that reproduces voices, instruments and musical subtleties precisely and naturally.

The system has a 464 W digital amplifier with individually adjustable equalising, nine channels and 16 speakers that produce superb sound characteristics.

The speaker bezels have a harman/kardon badge.

Available as standard."
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      12-09-2020, 09:58 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naywa01 View Post
From the BMW (UK) M4 configurator:

"Loudspeaker system - harman/kardon surround sound
Superior surround sound: the outstanding harman/kardon loudspeaker system produces an extremely harmonious sound that reproduces voices, instruments and musical subtleties precisely and naturally.

The system has a 464 W digital amplifier with individually adjustable equalising, nine channels and 16 speakers that produce superb sound characteristics.

The speaker bezels have a harman/kardon badge.

Available as standard."
Hi, thanks just looked up on Harman Kardon website is called the 3. Tells you everything about it.
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      12-09-2020, 12:48 PM   #4
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the HK system is okay, nothing special. I wish we had an option for the B&W or at least a better system as a whole
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      12-09-2020, 01:53 PM   #5
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I added the individual audio system to my e92 build. By far the best system for the 3/4 series. Nothing in the HK space even comes close... Wish BMW continued to offer a premium sound option in later generations.
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      12-09-2020, 02:01 PM   #6
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I have the B&W in my M5 and I drove a 530i loaner with the HK system while my car was in for service a few weeks ago. Neither vehicle was a 3 series but I can tell you that as long as the settings are in the "surround" mode ("ON STAGE" for the B&W and whatever the surround setting is for HK) the quality of sound is fantastic for both.

You can only hear a slight difference between the two systems in the high and low frequencies at really HIGH volume levels. Volume levels that are uncomfortable for very long, frankly. At normal listening levels the difference was very small, if at all, noticeable.

In the smaller soundstage of the 3 series I'm guessing it would be difficult to discern the difference between HK and B&W (even if it was offered).

The HK will be great in the M3/4 I'm sure.
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      12-09-2020, 02:20 PM   #7
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Hopefully the bass is decent, always found HK a little weak there.
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      12-09-2020, 04:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weingarm View Post
I have the B&W in my M5 and I drove a 530i loaner with the HK system while my car was in for service a few weeks ago. Neither vehicle was a 3 series but I can tell you that as long as the settings are in the "surround" mode ("ON STAGE" for the B&W and whatever the surround setting is for HK) the quality of sound is fantastic for both.

You can only hear a slight difference between the two systems in the high and low frequencies at really HIGH volume levels. Volume levels that are uncomfortable for very long, frankly. At normal listening levels the difference was very small, if at all, noticeable.

In the smaller soundstage of the 3 series I'm guessing it would be difficult to discern the difference between HK and B&W (even if it was offered).

The HK will be great in the M3/4 I'm sure.
I have the B&W now I'm my X5, it's fantastic to say the least. My X3 had the HK and I've driven a few with HK. all were disappointing to say the least.

I hope they made some big changes to the HK so it's not awful
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      12-10-2020, 08:17 AM   #9
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I have the HK in my new G22. I would have preferred to order a B&W or similar but I’m not disappointed. I would compare this HK to the upgraded Bose in the C8 Corvette. I generally keep all of my equalizer settings flat and I don’t like booming bass. Volume wise most of the time I don’t crank it up excessively high, unless I am listening to particular music that just begs to be louder. So in my parameters the HK is decent.
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      12-11-2020, 04:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Hopefully the bass is decent, always found HK a little weak there.
I find with my F82 the bass on the HK system is a bit all or nothing, its either too emphasised or a little lacking.

It would be nice if the DSP was better at compensating bass response for speed (rather than just adjusting volume), I think that seems to be part of the issue.

Either way, I find between the engine and road noise in the F82 you're never going to get real hi-fi quality on the move anyway - but it sounds alright when you're stood still with the engine off
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      12-19-2020, 08:36 PM   #11
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I'm going to chime in here because most people do not realize that BMW actually downgraded the Harman Kardon audio system in the G20 3 Series compared to the F30. Although upgrade price remains the same, you receive a noticeably inferior product. The amplifier wattage has decreased significantly. And the G8x M3/M4 will have that same audio system.

I owned an F30 with HK audio and was very pleased with it. I was also one of the first to get a G20, again with HK audio. The system is noticeably less competent both in loudness and bass. If you turn the volume up to reasonably loud levels, you can really hear it struggling. I still remember driving my G20 for the first time and trying out the audio -- I was really disappointed and didn’t understand why BMW would downgrade a well-performing product.

About three months after I got my G20, I received a survey call from BMW North America. I voiced my disappointment in the downgrade and told the representative I was baffled by their decision. My wife has a 2021 X5 with HK audio, and it has the same system wattage. You can really hear it struggle in the X5.

I mention all of this to say that I, too, am disappointed that BMW is not offering a higher-end audio setup in the M3/M4. The HK audio they are putting in it is not a worthy setup for this car if you care at all about quality audio.
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      12-19-2020, 09:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick776 View Post
I'm going to chime in here because most people do not realize that BMW actually downgraded the Harman Kardon audio system in the G20 3 Series compared to the F30.
I have HK in my F30 and it's disappointing to hear that!
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      12-20-2020, 10:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick776 View Post
I'm going to chime in here because most people do not realize that BMW actually downgraded the Harman Kardon audio system in the G20 3 Series compared to the F30. Although upgrade price remains the same, you receive a noticeably inferior product. The amplifier wattage has decreased significantly. And the G8x M3/M4 will have that same audio system.

I owned an F30 with HK audio and was very pleased with it. I was also one of the first to get a G20, again with HK audio. The system is noticeably less competent both in loudness and bass. If you turn the volume up to reasonably loud levels, you can really hear it struggling. I still remember driving my G20 for the first time and trying out the audio -- I was really disappointed and didn’t understand why BMW would downgrade a well-performing product.

About three months after I got my G20, I received a survey call from BMW North America. I voiced my disappointment in the downgrade and told the representative I was baffled by their decision. My wife has a 2021 X5 with HK audio, and it has the same system wattage. You can really hear it struggle in the X5.

I mention all of this to say that I, too, am disappointed that BMW is not offering a higher-end audio setup in the M3/M4. The HK audio they are putting in it is not a worthy setup for this car if you care at all about quality audio.

I have HK in my G20 and I think it is very solid... Good bass and overall sound when surround sound on... Mostly listen to House / Electronic Music... Have to admit I also expected a bit more power compared to the 464W at the 3 series HK in the M cars. Still the pricing seems very fair with around 650 USD / 550 Euro for that sound system!! Would recommend HK to everyone as it has good sound for a fair pricing.
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      12-20-2020, 05:05 PM   #14
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The issue is that most people are going to expect more (and rightfully so). If you get in the mood to do some spirited driving and really crank the audio you are definitely going to realize that the system simply is not as competent as it should be. The old system that was in the F30 was pretty darn good, IMO. I guess the bean counters figured out a way to make more money by dropping the wattage on the amplifier. There are several discussions about the issue on several G20 forums on bimmerfest and bimmerpost. That the HK is "standard" equipment on the M3/M4 makes it a bit more tolerable to me at least.
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      12-23-2020, 01:52 AM   #15
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Interesting to follow this discussion... I'm yet to decide if the new M3 is worth the extra investment, coming from a 2017 M6 GC, but the sound system discussion is always close to my heart...

Just remember, if you are after a real high end sound system, it won't come from a car manufacturer - any manufacturer. All of them are compromised, primarily by the business case around them. Fundamentally, upgrade sound systems are there to increase the manufacturer's margin, not to deliver "best in class" sound experience. Also, individual preferences vary - you may like techno but I possibly love Vivaldi (no I don't), and the unfortunate trend of removing superior quality source media (CD) is arguably not going to promote the positive "sound quality development"... I wish they at least kept CD player/changer as an option, this is likely going to play a role when I will make a decision what next after the M6.

So, the discussion about these OEM sound system should draw the "reference line" somewhere in the discussion - if the benchmark is 90's VW Golf, all of the available options (H/K, B&O, B&W, Burmeister, Levinson) sound pretty damn good, and the surround trickery hides sound imperfections (a bit like a home sound bar is supposed to make pretty average speaker elements inside the bar magically sound great), but if you are after distortion free sound quality that has been optimised to the type of music you like and to the acoustical specifics of the environment (cabin), the only option I can see is to go for a custom after market system. If only they (manufacturers - in my case BMW) took that into consideration and selected speaker elements based on size that leaves plenty of options to choose from for custom build. To be honest, I would prefer ordering the car with head unit only, and then choose my own speaker elements, amps, DSPs etc. But obviously that would cut profits, so nobody is going to offer this - and unfortunately Koenigsegg is off limits for me.

Sorry about the rant... 😂
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      12-24-2020, 09:10 PM   #16
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Best Harmon Kardon system by far was in the E60 .... it all went downhill from there... BMW should be ashamed of themselves. My parents still have the E60 528xi in their fleet and every time I get in that car I can’t believe my ears how good that hk sound system is compared to the shit I have in my new BMW cars... Sad....
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      12-25-2020, 04:52 AM   #17
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I don´t know if it is me or you guys experienced the same? When I connect my phone via bluetooth audio I have better sound compared to Apple Car Play. Any similiarities what you experienced?

PS: I have the current 3series (G20) with HK and I am in general satisfied with the bass, sound / surround sound, loudness in mostly electronic music use cases.
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      12-28-2020, 08:11 PM   #18
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I had an F90 M5C with the B&W and a 2020 RR Velar with the upgraded Meridian system. Both sounded excellent with the correct audio source (more on that below) and didn't feel the need for aftermarket audio. The bass was a little lacking, but I'm finding these high end system's philosophy doesn't seem to be strong bass for some reason. I was definitely a fan of the nice lights in the tweeters of the B&W system.

As for audio source, I use the Tidal app on my iPhone and always attempt to download the Master Quality Authenticated (MQA) audio when available for a song or album. When using this level of media quality, these systems really shine. While difficult to discern even from CD quality, it is subtle enough to know you got the best audio source. Of course you have to connect either with a USB cable or the wireless Apple CarPlay. No Bluetooth!!

I do find it disappointing that the G8x is only coming with a standard HK system.

I'm leaning towards the 2021 E63S MB (W213), but still deciding if I wanna go back to the G82 when AWD is available. Touch decisions.
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      12-29-2020, 06:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick776 View Post
I'm going to chime in here because most people do not realize that BMW actually downgraded the Harman Kardon audio system in the G20 3 Series compared to the F30. Although upgrade price remains the same, you receive a noticeably inferior product. The amplifier wattage has decreased significantly. And the G8x M3/M4 will have that same audio system.

I owned an F30 with HK audio and was very pleased with it. I was also one of the first to get a G20, again with HK audio. The system is noticeably less competent both in loudness and bass. If you turn the volume up to reasonably loud levels, you can really hear it struggling. I still remember driving my G20 for the first time and trying out the audio -- I was really disappointed and didn’t understand why BMW would downgrade a well-performing product.

About three months after I got my G20, I received a survey call from BMW North America. I voiced my disappointment in the downgrade and told the representative I was baffled by their decision. My wife has a 2021 X5 with HK audio, and it has the same system wattage. You can really hear it struggle in the X5.

I mention all of this to say that I, too, am disappointed that BMW is not offering a higher-end audio setup in the M3/M4. The HK audio they are putting in it is not a worthy setup for this car if you care at all about quality audio.
I presume that BMW went for a generic deal with HK and installs their standard proposal. I see many more cars being offered these days with HK sound upgrade (like new golf 8 which had Canton before). This would imply they have to stick to the packages that HK offers and in return can buy it in for much less and like this improve their profitability. Remember, BMWs goal is to make more profit, not deliver you more value for less.
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      12-30-2020, 08:56 AM   #20
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In Germany HK comes with an upgrade price of ~ 550 € / 600 USD. It is not a standard option but seems to have the same specs as in NA.
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      01-01-2021, 10:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelbourneFinn View Post
Interesting to follow this discussion... I'm yet to decide if the new M3 is worth the extra investment, coming from a 2017 M6 GC, but the sound system discussion is always close to my heart...

Just remember, if you are after a real high end sound system, it won't come from a car manufacturer - any manufacturer. All of them are compromised, primarily by the business case around them. Fundamentally, upgrade sound systems are there to increase the manufacturer's margin, not to deliver "best in class" sound experience. Also, individual preferences vary - you may like techno but I possibly love Vivaldi (no I don't), and the unfortunate trend of removing superior quality source media (CD) is arguably not going to promote the positive "sound quality development"... I wish they at least kept CD player/changer as an option, this is likely going to play a role when I will make a decision what next after the M6.

So, the discussion about these OEM sound system should draw the "reference line" somewhere in the discussion - if the benchmark is 90's VW Golf, all of the available options (H/K, B&O, B&W, Burmeister, Levinson) sound pretty damn good, and the surround trickery hides sound imperfections (a bit like a home sound bar is supposed to make pretty average speaker elements inside the bar magically sound great), but if you are after distortion free sound quality that has been optimised to the type of music you like and to the acoustical specifics of the environment (cabin), the only option I can see is to go for a custom after market system. If only they (manufacturers - in my case BMW) took that into consideration and selected speaker elements based on size that leaves plenty of options to choose from for custom build. To be honest, I would prefer ordering the car with head unit only, and then choose my own speaker elements, amps, DSPs etc. But obviously that would cut profits, so nobody is going to offer this - and unfortunately Koenigsegg is off limits for me.

Sorry about the rant... 😂
I had the B&O in my M6 GC CP and I thought it was just sooo good. I also thought the HK in my 2016 M3 was pretty good, but less detail than the B&O.

I've gone to B&W for our home theater and honestly it has blown me away and it's only the "entry level" 600 series stuff.

Hard to know if the money is well spent on the upgraded/premium factory stuff without hearing it first and it's hard to find them on the lot ... BMW does charge a pretty penny for the high end systems which would probably buy a pretty nice aftermarket kit. Did you put in your own system to the M6? If so, what?
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      01-03-2021, 07:27 PM   #22
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In my experience, BMW peaked with the HK system in 2007-08 and every iteration or new model has taken a hit. E46 was crappy. Then the shift--08 E92 was amazing. 11 E90 was a slight step down. 13 E70 was also fantastic. 18 F80 sucks in comparison overall. Hate to imagine the G20 being worse than the F30/80.
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