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View Poll Results: DCT or traditional AT?
I prefer a DCT. 235 60.57%
I prefer a traditional AT. 32 8.25%
Either is fine with me. 53 13.66%
I don't care. No manual, no purchase. 68 17.53%
Voters: 388. You may not vote on this poll

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      02-12-2019, 10:42 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyoasian View Post
Problem with most DCTs nowadays (for front engines) is that they have no room to grow and can't handle as much torque as the good torque converters.
Well the problem is BMW doesn't want to develop a DCT for more power. 95% of their customer base doesn't know what that is or care, the ZF8 has a smooth launch with the torque converter. Thé ZF8 can mount an electric motor for hybrid application. The ZF8 can handle plenty of power and is mass produced right now.

We all remember how SMGs were loathed by the average Joe despite being fast and fun. DCT is slower but has the other problem, it's not special enough for people to notice it's there.

If SMG had been better received we would see development of a manual that could handle more than 470 hp and an SMG IV pump to go with it. THAT is the best scenario.

If BMW has marketed DCT better you might see more development bucks. I've heard so many old guys at the track raving about PDK being glorious and amazing. It's become a buzzword. Well SMG is faster, and M DCT is just as good by the numbers. The thing is BMW marketing didn't bother to promote either as a competitor.

In reality, SMG couldn't hack it in stop and go traffic, DCT won't work with electric motors. Manuals don't sell. I've driven all three and I recommend keeping them if you got them.

ZF8 is smooth in stop and go traffic and hybrid friendly but no soul. Shame on BMW. Sales have never been better.

We want fun driving, Leasers want comfort and they far outnumber us.

BMW would be crazy to spend money developing a new SMG/manual/DCT when 99% of buyers don't want them or care to learn to use them, and definitely won't buy them.
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      02-24-2019, 03:20 PM   #24
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I tend to think the media or more interested in 'Gesture controls' and that the manufacturer has said that ZF is as good or better than DCT. I drive a 335d currently with ZF and it's a great gearbox. But I feel one of the main things that sets fast 3 series away from the M cars is a completely different gearbox.

Makes it feel more special and like you are getting something else for your money. This just makes me feel like BMW is being lazy or the accountants have too much control... they usually do.
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      02-24-2019, 04:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dXdriver View Post
This just makes me feel like BMW is being lazy or the accountants have too much control... they usually do.
It's all about economics of scale these days, standardized OEM part suppliers across the entire product portfolio and maximize ROI.
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      02-25-2019, 03:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
You can really tell in this new generation of BMWs. The interiors are all virtually identical in styling, materials and colors choices. Cognac Vernasca leather seems to be the standard press photo choice. Even the packages have the same equipment.
This! I've been finding it really hard to get excited over the new models of late, G20 3 Series, 8 Series, X5, X3 etc... And it's down to that exact reason. They're all the same inside! Exactly same steering wheel, exactly same dashboard, exactly the same seats just about.

It's almost like they don't like making cars anymore... I like the F30 generation because I always think of it being it's own thing. I.e, it doesn't share any looks with the 5 series. Now I genuinely have to look at them for a while to make different models out.
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      02-28-2019, 10:38 AM   #27
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I vote for traditional AT. I never could figure out how to drive the dual clutch. Two feet, four pedals?
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      03-01-2019, 01:53 PM   #28
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I'll just say this. IF I choose to go auto and not manual, DCT is the only option. I will not buy the car if it's not DCT.
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      03-02-2019, 01:35 PM   #29
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DCT / MT or bust for me.
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      03-02-2019, 04:26 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norberts View Post
I'll just say this. IF I choose to go auto and not manual, DCT is the only option. I will not buy the car if it's not DCT.
Adios amagios. If I put you blind folded in my F85, you couldn't tell it was a AT, the M programmed ZF transmission is that good. BMW is NOT investing R&D into a DCT MxDrive transmission with ZF. I just returned from Arjeplog, Sweden and in discussion with BMW and ZF engineers, all the R&D is focused on developing electric power trains.
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      03-02-2019, 04:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by norberts View Post
I'll just say this. IF I choose to go auto and not manual, DCT is the only option. I will not buy the car if it's not DCT.
No G80 for you then. Maybe no more BMW for you altogether.
The G80 test mules arrived in Arjeplog last week, as I saw 2 G80's last week leaving the BMW Winter Test Area at sunset. Paparazzi were spotted in the area, as the high profile vehicles test at night to avoid being photographed. Compared to the upcoming M8 coupe, M8 Convertible, X5M, X6 and X6M that were visible during the day adjacent to the ice track I was training on.
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      03-04-2019, 06:05 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Adios amagios. If I put you blind folded in my F85, you couldn't tell it was a AT, the M programmed ZF transmission is that good. BMW is NOT investing R&D into a DCT MxDrive transmission with ZF. I just returned from Arjeplog, Sweden and in discussion with BMW and ZF engineers, all the R&D is focused on developing electric power trains.
I will be happy as long as BMW M invests in developing proper RWD-only sports car. MT/DCT is a start for sDrive(pure RWD I guess?) models.

Really hope the next M3 isn't a knockoff of AWD based models and offers distinct driving experience. Not interested in switchable AWD that relies heavily on electronics...
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      03-04-2019, 10:40 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
I will be happy as long as BMW M invests in developing proper RWD-only sports car. MT/DCT is a start for sDrive(pure RWD I guess?) models.

Really hope the next M3 isn't a knockoff of AWD based models and offers distinct driving experience. Not interested in switchable AWD that relies heavily on electronics...
Might have to consider the M2 then.
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      03-05-2019, 10:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Might have to consider the M2 then.
Might sit this one out. BMW M wants to take detour I guess..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post

Any possibility of AWD M3/M4 this generation?
No. We orientated on lightweight-ness and steering precision for M3/M4.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=973551
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      03-05-2019, 07:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Adios amagios. If I put you blind folded in my F85, you couldn't tell it was a AT, the M programmed ZF transmission is that good. BMW is NOT investing R&D into a DCT MxDrive transmission with ZF. I just returned from Arjeplog, Sweden and in discussion with BMW and ZF engineers, all the R&D is focused on developing electric power trains.
\When I drive my DCT M4 and then my ZF 8 Speed Jaguar I really have a hard time telling the difference. In manual mode they both shift instantly and smoothly. In automatic mode they both always seem to be in the right gear.
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      03-11-2019, 07:54 PM   #36
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When the ZF8 shifts as good if not better than M-DCT, then why does it matter?

Do you feel it shifts to soft? My DCT in Sport Plus is completely vicious, and will completely destroy my rear tires in nothing flat, if I am not careful. Is that what you're after, something that is adjustable characteristically wise?
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      03-11-2019, 07:58 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN. View Post
When the ZF8 shifts as good if not better than M-DCT, then why does it matter?

Do you feel it shifts to soft? My DCT in Sport Plus is completely vicious, and will completely destroy my rear tires in nothing flat, if I am not careful. Is that what you're after, something that is adjustable characteristically wise?
“Better” is subjective. I like the characteristics associated with the DCT and PDK. Every ZF I’ve ever been in has been slow and sloppy. And the “best” attribute I’ve heard about the ZF in the M5 is that it’s really smooth...not that it’s fast or has tactility. Smoothness.

I remain skeptical.
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      03-11-2019, 08:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
"Better" is subjective. I like the characteristics associated with the DCT and PDK. Every ZF I've ever been in has been slow and sloppy. And the "best" attribute I've heard about the ZF in the M5 is that it's really smooth...not that it's fast or has tactility. Smoothness.

I remain skeptical.
You'd have to drive it I guess.

It's just a cost saving measure on BMWs part.

Subjective is correct it's sort of like sex... Smooth is great, but sometimes you want it hard and fast.
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      03-12-2019, 07:19 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
“Better” is subjective. I like the characteristics associated with the DCT and PDK. Every ZF I’ve ever been in has been slow and sloppy. And the “best” attribute I’ve heard about the ZF in the M5 is that it’s really smooth...not that it’s fast or has tactility. Smoothness.

I remain skeptical.
Agreed. The ZF gearbox marketed as 'fast' but to me it feels like a super ordinary old school slushbox automatic with fancy programming.
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      03-12-2019, 11:06 AM   #40
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Audi keeps DCT for the R8. Says enough.
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      03-13-2019, 01:18 PM   #41
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Still saddened to see even more confirmations that BMW is moving their M models to automatics.

This is a cost decision, plain and simple. They could pull an off-the-shelf box from their current supplier getrag that could handle whatever torque they throw at it. ZF will make all their 3 and 4 series cars uniformly gelatinous.

Probably time for me to move on from BMW anyway.
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      03-16-2019, 02:45 PM   #42
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For me MT

Probably one off the last MT for ///M
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      03-16-2019, 07:00 PM   #43
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I would love to drive MT but I suck in this. Lol
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      03-19-2019, 06:20 PM   #44
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Got to test drive the new M5 at an M Experience Day in Thermal. That thing is a rocket, and it's got the ZF TC transmission, so...

My F80 bucks in traffic, and I can't say I enjoy it very much. I have it in comfort mode with everything tuned down, and it still struggles at times.

Before the M3, I had the Lexus ISF, which also had a torque converter transmission (not a ZF), and the shifts were pretty quick.

Bottom line is, you'll probably lose more drag races due to not being able to get the power down than the car not shifting fast enough.
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