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      02-23-2021, 11:37 PM   #23
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I have a feeling that this car will be very fast on road/track but at the same time very very boring to drive.

Lots of insulation, sound deadening, weak exhaust sound, slushbox tranny (smooth but geared tall).

sounds alot like the x3m I drove... totally numb driving experience.
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      02-24-2021, 01:11 AM   #24
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These handling comments align with what laps on the N'Ring have shown. It is obvious by observation the G8X is far more composed than the F8X.
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      02-24-2021, 08:19 AM   #25
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The "zero lag" comment is interesting. Can you expand on this? I have heard people whisper this about turbo motors and it's always incorrect. Was this more a comment that, at corner exit RPMs, the S58 has you well into boost range where the S55 struggled a bit? FWIW I found the S55 really bad in this regard--enough for me to skip the F8x and M2 comp. If this is what you were saying then it really sounds like the S58 has had some work done in this regard.

BTW great news on the sound insulation. I like how you put it--feels faster at lower speeds. AKA the entire point of a sporty car. Nice!
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Originally Posted by pcai View Post
The auto they put in new M cars are solid. When you're on throttle, upshifts are very crisp. The box fires out the upshifts quite literally (if you have a non-EU spec exhaust) and it will never upshift automatically at redline in manual mode. There's minimal delay in shifting period. Not once have I wished that the gearbox would respond quicker when I'm driving my car. Be wary that launch control shifts are limited to ~100 launches over the entire lifespan of the gearbox.
Sure.. it's "good". But with the M3/M4 being one of the few cars you can still get in manual, for the love of god, buy the manual! I am curious if the uptake on manual models on the M3/M4 is similar to the M2--or if the M2 is still viewed as that more driver-involved choice. This new M4 sounds like it takes steps to move back toward driver engagement (well.. minus the insane weight gain).
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      02-24-2021, 10:37 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcai View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
I thought that was only an issue with the M5? I wonder if you can launch it with DSC off without worrying about that limit becuase in my experience you launch better that way.
What do you mean? The 8 speed auto box that's going in the G8X will be fundamentally the same ones from the M5/M8/X5M/X6M etc. And from the LC limit thread on the F90 forum we already have M8 owners running into the same LC limit. So why would this just be a M5 issue? And you need to have DSC off to activate launch control anyways. The car will automatically short shift if it feels that it doesn't have enough traction.
Basically, the launch control shifts are different from the normal shifts (S1-S3). LC shifts aren't crisp (no exhaust crackle on the upshift, and instead the gearbox tries to "blend" the gears together and you feel the gearbox "slingshot" you forward with every gear change). After the ~100 LC limit, the gearbox will intentionally stop this shifting strategy in order to "preserve" its lifespan and during LC you will get the normal S3 shifts from that point onwards. The controversy exists because BMW does not explicitly state this limit even though it exists.

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1798332

Don't know if the DCT in the F8X has a similar LC limit. If it doesn't, then that would be probably one of the only big areas where the DCT is better than the auto.
becuase from what I read it was due to the torque of the S63 more so than just a native limit for all ZF8 boxes as a whole. maybe there was some misinformation going around but in non M cars you only use TSC off to launch not DSC off so I wonder if it's applicable to every single one or not
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      02-24-2021, 10:44 AM   #27
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The manual version's acceleration is identical to the f80. I feel that most of the driving experience would be the same which is why the competition is slightly more appealing with a 3.8 0-60. Just my reasoning.
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      02-24-2021, 10:59 AM   #28
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Is it more fun to drive than previous gen?
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      02-24-2021, 12:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehifi View Post
I have a feeling that this car will be very fast on road/track but at the same time very very boring to drive.

Lots of insulation, sound deadening, weak exhaust sound, slushbox tranny (smooth but geared tall).

sounds alot like the x3m I drove... totally numb driving experience.
I'm frequently critical of how BMWs drive, but I found the X3M to be relatively fun for a crossover. Steering definitely feels straight out of a video game but at least it's quite tight. Porsche's EPS takes the cake for providing the most "natural" feel.

But I see your point. Most of these cars are so capable and so refined that they feel boring unless you're pushing them to their limits. These limits are so high that exploring them on public roads is dangerous. That's the impression I came away with from the M340 after driving it both on the road and on autocross.
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      02-24-2021, 12:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I'm frequently critical of how BMWs drive, but I found the X3M to be relatively fun for a crossover. Steering definitely feels straight out of a video game but at least it's quite tight. Porsche's EPS takes the cake for providing the most "natural" feel.

But I see your point. Most of these cars are so capable and so refined that they feel boring unless you're pushing them to their limits. These limits are so high that exploring them on public roads is dangerous. That's the impression I came away with from the M340 after driving it both on the road and on autocross.
Don’t underestimate the impact of sharp front end bite and stability. It transforms even heavier and larger cars to responsive fun to drive cars. To me it’s one of the most important aspects of a driver’s car.
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      02-24-2021, 12:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Glad the false notions about this new iteration not being superior in driving dynamics to that of the F80 being refuted.
I'm thinking more capable but maybe less dynamic/engaging - certainly on the street. I say this given grip is so high, power is so linear, shifting is smooth and automatic, NVH is so low, cabin is more insulated, and steering is still unobtrusive in terms of chatter, bump steer, tramlining, etc. You can drive above your skill level on the track w/o any daily discomfort on the street. Honestly, you could say the same thing about new 911s. Sounds like this will check the box for the majority of target audience, and there is still the M2 for those that long for a more engaging experience.
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      02-24-2021, 12:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcai View Post
What do you mean? The 8 speed auto box that's going in the G8X will be fundamentally the same ones from the M5/M8/X5M/X6M etc. And from the LC limit thread on the F90 forum we already have M8 owners running into the same LC limit. So why would this just be a M5 issue? And you need to have DSC off to activate launch control anyways. The car will automatically short shift if it feels that it doesn't have enough traction.
Basically, the launch control shifts are different from the normal shifts (S1-S3). LC shifts aren't crisp (no exhaust crackle on the upshift, and instead the gearbox tries to "blend" the gears together and you feel the gearbox "slingshot" you forward with every gear change). After the ~100 LC limit, the gearbox will intentionally stop this shifting strategy in order to "preserve" its lifespan and during LC you will get the normal S3 shifts from that point onwards. The controversy exists because BMW does not explicitly state this limit even though it exists.

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1798332

Don't know if the DCT in the F8X has a similar LC limit. If it doesn't, then that would be probably one of the only big areas where the DCT is better than the auto.
BMW has been doing this for awhile specifically on the MINIs with Sport automatics. They also have a LC limit.
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      02-24-2021, 12:39 PM   #33
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Track Review

Thank you very much for the feedback!!
So far so good.

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      02-24-2021, 12:58 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Hey OP, you mentioned that you track your F80 regularly and that you had this car felt faster than the F80, but you also mentioned that you couldn't push the cars either.
Do you mind clarifying that? So does the G80 feel faster than the F80 at 5/10s or 7/10s?
I'm wondering about the brakes too, since the fronts are a good size but the rears are almost nonexistent, would they hold up if you were pushing the car on a 30 minute HPDE session?

Thanks for providing some real world feedback.
Quote

Only 4 laps and no numbers in order to compare tracks laps speed and others parameter
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      02-24-2021, 01:12 PM   #35
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Down under you can already sign up to drive these on the track while in the US the cars aren’t even allowed to be released and displayed at dealers.

How is that fair...or maybe it is taken what these things cost in Aussie
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      02-24-2021, 01:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Down under you can already sign up to drive these on the track while in the US the cars aren't even allowed to be released and displayed at dealers.

How is that fair...or maybe it is taken what these things cost in Aussie
I just checked Aus prices out of interest... wow. About US$142k for a fairly lightly spec'd car (what would be maybe $78k in the US). Add in exterior carbon + carbon seats and it's about US$160k - over A$200k. That's insane.
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      02-24-2021, 01:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
becuase from what I read it was due to the torque of the S63 more so than just a native limit for all ZF8 boxes as a whole. maybe there was some misinformation going around but in non M cars you only use TSC off to launch not DSC off so I wonder if it's applicable to every single one or not
The LC limit doesn't just apply to the S63 engine. As another poster said in this thread it applies to even minis. Also, BMW explicitly stated in some X1 manual that LC is limited to 100 uses. In M cars there's only 2 TC programs-MDM and DSC off (full off). I think you need to have it in DSC off to activate LC.
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      02-24-2021, 01:53 PM   #38
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They really should just release the journos reviews, it's like the longest launch in history.
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      02-24-2021, 02:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
They really should just release the journos reviews, it's like the longest launch in history.
Agreed, I wasn’t around at the last launch during a pandemic of similar scale but I’m sure the reviews for this baby was out much quicker.

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      02-24-2021, 02:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
I'm thinking more capable but maybe less dynamic/engaging - certainly on the street. I say this given grip is so high, power is so linear, shifting is smooth and automatic, NVH is so low, cabin is more insulated, and steering is still unobtrusive in terms of chatter, bump steer, tramlining, etc. You can drive above your skill level on the track w/o any daily discomfort on the street. Honestly, you could say the same thing about new 911s. Sounds like this will check the box for the majority of target audience, and there is still the M2 for those that long for a more engaging experience.
I hear yah but I will say cabin being more insulated and smoother driving car is what many M3 owners wanted. I have seen countless comments on this forum from prior F80 drivers who proclaim the car was too harsh and uncomfortable for daily use. Some even attest to those attributes being why they switch to the M340i.

Anyhow this was expected since it's a new generation. The biggest mistake we all make is that what's good for me or what I desire is what everybody else wants. However, that's not the case, some want manuals, some want auto combined with all the electric gizmos on this planet. Then we wonder why it's challenging for manufacturers to build the perfect car. Many of these cars will be driven like camry's. Let's focus on the positive, we can still get a manual in 2021, that right there is epic and outshine the majority of the negatives one can find with this car.
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      02-24-2021, 02:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Let's focus on the positive, we can still get a manual in 2021, that right there is epic and outshine the majority of the negatives one can find with this car.
This! In 2021, there's a very sporty family sedan you can own as an only car, that starts at 70k and is available brand new with 6MT.

Like all M3s of past generations, in that same car you use to drive your significant other, parents, friends, kids, clients, you can also go to the track on the weekend and tear it up. You can ski with it, pick people up at the airport, etc. This is extraordinary. It's like it's friggin Christmas all over again.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 02-24-2021 at 02:51 PM..
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      02-24-2021, 02:44 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Down under you can already sign up to drive these on the track while in the US the cars aren't even allowed to be released and displayed at dealers.

How is that fair...or maybe it is taken what these things cost in Aussie
They are basically back to normal with regards to covid, we're still number 1 at cases and deaths, so not surprising.

I did see it the other week at the dealership though in the Bay Area, you should call around you and see if they are stopping by any near you.
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      02-24-2021, 02:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
I'm thinking more capable but maybe less dynamic/engaging - certainly on the street. I say this given grip is so high, power is so linear, shifting is smooth and automatic, NVH is so low, cabin is more insulated, and steering is still unobtrusive in terms of chatter, bump steer, tramlining, etc. You can drive above your skill level on the track w/o any daily discomfort on the street. Honestly, you could say the same thing about new 911s. Sounds like this will check the box for the majority of target audience, and there is still the M2 for those that long for a more engaging experience.
I hear yah but I will say cabin being more insulated and smoother driving car is what many M3 owners wanted. I have seen countless comments on this forum from prior F80 drivers who proclaim the car was too harsh and uncomfortable for daily use. Some even attest to those attributes being why they switch to the M340i.

Anyhow this was expected since it's a new generation. The biggest mistake we all make is that what's good for me or what I desire is what everybody else wants. However, that's not the case, some want manuals, some want auto combined with all the electric gizmos on this planet. Then we wonder why it's challenging for manufacturers to build the perfect car. Many of these cars will be driven like camry's. Let's focus on the positive, we can still get a manual in 2021, that right there is epic and outshine the majority of the negatives one can find with this car.
Well said

Its like it is forgotten that the main driver of car development is the market, so customers.

I'm sure BMW would build a very raw car and save the r&d for all the tech bits and so on, if thats what they could sell at a profit and high numbers.

They are a big car manufacturer and have to follow the demand and as you said, people often think what they demand is the majority, in reality it's often not.
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      02-24-2021, 03:31 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Deep View Post
Well said

Its like it is forgotten that the main driver of car development is the market, so customers.

I'm sure BMW would build a very raw car and save the r&d for all the tech bits and so on, if thats what they could sell at a profit and high numbers.

They are a big car manufacturer and have to follow the demand and as you said, people often think what they demand is the majority, in reality it's often not.
And M3s has never been raw except to some extent the GTS, CRT track type of models. M3s are in my experience 3 series cars with a track ready engine and chassis. As the 3 series they are luxury cars but even more so, the interior is the most premium in high end materials, seats, instruments look and feel of all 3 series models. The M3s retain the smooth, well oiled but athletic BMW characteristics. Communicative they usually are (the F80’s steering is the exception) but not raw.

Last edited by solstice; 02-24-2021 at 04:09 PM..
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