BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
G80 BMW M3 and M4 General Topics M3 (G80) and BMW M4 (G82) General Forum

View Poll Results: How fast do you think the G82 competition will complete the Nürburgring
7:10s 2 4.35%
7:20s 4 8.70%
7:30s 19 41.30%
7:40s 12 26.09%
7:50s 3 6.52%
Slower than the F8x 6 13.04%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-27-2020, 10:29 PM   #1
Avaley
Lieutenant
Avaley's Avatar
608
Rep
472
Posts

Drives: f32 bm3 stg2 & 982 GT4
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 G82 M4 Competition (RWD) Nürburgring Lap Times Guesstimate Thread

I'm curious as to what your educated Nring guesstimate times are for the G82 M4C AWD will be on the Nring and why? Thank you in advance for voting and keeping this a civil, educational and informative poll/discussion.

The stock F80 non-comp is quoted here as 7:52 and the F82 GTS is quoted at 7:28.

https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m4
https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m4-gts

Based on this and putting my finger in the air based on the power/weight, I guess the G82 will do the Nring between 7:30-7:40.

Last edited by Avaley; 10-27-2020 at 10:39 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2020, 10:55 PM   #2
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
On what tires? The stock PS4S or the optional PSC2?
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2020, 10:55 PM   #3
Avaley
Lieutenant
Avaley's Avatar
608
Rep
472
Posts

Drives: f32 bm3 stg2 & 982 GT4
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
On what tires? The stock PS4S or the optional PSC2?
I'd be curious as to your guesses for each?
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2020, 10:58 PM   #4
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
I'd be curious as to your guesses for each?
I'd say high 7:3X on the PSC2 and low 7:4X on the PS4S
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates

Last edited by CanAutM3; 11-04-2020 at 12:20 PM..
Appreciate 1
Avaley608.00

      10-29-2020, 06:05 PM   #5
Avaley
Lieutenant
Avaley's Avatar
608
Rep
472
Posts

Drives: f32 bm3 stg2 & 982 GT4
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
so it seems like 7:30s is the mode with the mean perhaps high 7:30s, would love to get some more polls from everyone, thank you in advance!
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2020, 06:39 PM   #6
Avaley
Lieutenant
Avaley's Avatar
608
Rep
472
Posts

Drives: f32 bm3 stg2 & 982 GT4
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
genuinely curious as to the rationale / engineering aspects of why the G82 M4 comp would be slower than F82 comp?

I would have guessed the improved power to weight all else equal would be a faster car, but perhaps i'm missing something / people think the weight will make it corner much slower?

deceptiv.M3

zamboni
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2020, 10:16 AM   #7
Salespunk
Major
764
Rep
1,089
Posts

Drives: Slow
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SlowCal

iTrader: (0)

The AWD system is going to increase corner exit grip which will result in faster straight line speeds. I am will say low 7:30's.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2020, 12:20 PM   #8
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
The AWD system is going to increase corner exit grip which will result in faster straight line speeds. I am will say low 7:30's.
You realize the AWD F90 M5 did a 7:36 and has a rather significant power-to-weight advantage over the G8X?

But regardless, the poll is specific about the RWD G8X, not the AWD one...
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates

Last edited by CanAutM3; 11-05-2020 at 09:15 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 08:56 AM   #9
heavyD^2
Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
2209
Rep
2,009
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Not blocked from G80/G82 because I'm an adult

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
You realize the AWD F90 M5 did a 7:36 and has a rather significant power-to-weight advantage over the G8X?
The G8x will handle better and the S58 is packing way more heat than advertised. I don't believe it's a stretch that the G80x will be quicker around a track.
Appreciate 1
EXE461222.50

      11-05-2020, 09:16 AM   #10
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
The G8x will handle better and the S58 is packing way more heat than advertised. I don't believe it's a stretch that the G80x will be quicker around a track.
An AWD G80 M3 will be within 150-200lb of an F90 M5 with a ~100hp deficit...

The M4GTS that has a better power-to-weight ratio than the RWD G8X, less weight, aero and coilovers did a 7:34. I don't see the the RWD G8X beating that.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates

Last edited by CanAutM3; 12-01-2020 at 07:16 PM..
Appreciate 1
Bumpinjeep1070.00

      11-05-2020, 09:32 AM   #11
yk36
Private
122
Rep
99
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

A 7:30, 5 secs behind the 992 Carrera S? Do people really think it will be ~20secs faster than F8X when the G8X is basically an M5 without the power.

Don't make me laugh. This porker will probably do 7:40-7:50.
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 11:41 AM   #12
heavyD^2
Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
2209
Rep
2,009
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Not blocked from G80/G82 because I'm an adult

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
An AWD G80 M3 will be within 150-200lb of an F90 M5 with a ~100hp deficit...

The M4GTS that has a better power-to-weight ratio than the RWD G8X, aero and coilovers did a 7:34. I don't see the the RWD G8X beating that.
As an owner of an S58 powered vehicle I am very confident that it's going to do this. It's a big step above the S55. Time will tell as every single one of us is speculating at this point.
Appreciate 1
Avaley608.00

      11-05-2020, 11:49 AM   #13
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
As an owner of an S58 powered vehicle I am very confident that it's going to do this. It's a big step above the S55. Time will tell as every single one of us is speculating at this point.
In what terms is it a “big step above”? Technology wise, it offers nothing above the S55. Yes, makes more power, but it simply makes it through bigger turbos at the expense of increased lag and a higher boost threshold.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 01:39 PM   #14
heavyD^2
Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
2209
Rep
2,009
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Not blocked from G80/G82 because I'm an adult

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
In what terms is it a “big step above”? Technology wise, it offers nothing above the S55. Yes, makes more power, but it simply makes it through bigger turbos at the expense of increased lag and a higher boost threshold.
It's a step above in the only metric that matters and that's performance. Take a look at the 3.3 sec 0-60 mph and 11.6 mph 1/4 mile times of the X3M for proof of how potent the engine is. It's a monster and let's face it, the B58 is almost on par with the S55 performance-wise as the Supra and M340i are faster than the F80 M3/M4 in a straight line. The S58 is B58 in steroids. The S55 was and is a good engine but the B58 and S58 are simply newer and better designs.

Don't take my word for it as MB fanboy Jonny Lieberman can't even deny it;

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...n-test-review/

Quote:
"It drives much faster than only 503 hp would have you believe," Lieberman said. "It pulls hard, and then over 6,000 rpm it really starts pulling. Beast of a motor." M3 and M4 owners will be quite happy when this engine makes its way into the upcoming G20-edition M3.
In the company of TTV8's in this comparison not a single comment of it being underpowered and in fact quite the opposite. Once the G8x are released then people will realize just how good the engine is.
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 02:02 PM   #15
solstice
Major General
4599
Rep
6,458
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
In what terms is it a “big step above”? Technology wise, it offers nothing above the S55.
Nothing is a bit strong.

The compressor wheels used in the turbochargers are said to have been upgraded over the S55’s, while the entire charge-air system has been optimized for flow to mitigate pressure losses. An electronically controlled wastegate is also present, along with what BMW refers to as a water-to-air intercooler.

Like the most recent versions of the N63 and S63 V8 engines, the S58’s direct-injection system now boasts fuel pressure that has been increased from 2,900 psi to over 5,000. This mirrors a change made to the corporate V8 last year, which allowed it to reach its highest rated output yet. Benefits include further improved fuel atomization within the combustion chambers, which is best experienced under heavy engine loads with full acceleration from high speeds.

The core of the cylinder head is one of the most interesting components of the S58. Manufactured using an additive process that can best be thought of as incredibly advanced 3D printing, the cylinder-head core takes a shape that would be impossible to create using any other currently available mass-production method. If the skeletal structure seems at all familiar, that’s because the same process is used to manufacture the ultra-lightweight brake calipers of the M850i Night Sky.

One of the main advantages of the core—and the new manufacturing process—is the ability to accommodate the routing of coolant ducts where they previously could not reach, in an effort to better regulate internal temperatures.
Appreciate 1
heavyD^22208.50

      11-05-2020, 02:24 PM   #16
M3AWD
Major
M3AWD's Avatar
United_States
1105
Rep
1,124
Posts

Drives: 335i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Don't forget the larger grill means 999x more air
__________________
Waiting for the AWD G80 M3
Current Ride: '14 335i M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 02:25 PM   #17
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
It's a step above in the only metric that matters and that's performance. Take a look at the 3.3 sec 0-60 mph and 11.6 mph 1/4 mile times of the X3M for proof of how potent the engine is. It's a monster and let's face it, the B58 is almost on par with the S55 performance-wise as the Supra and M340i are faster than the F80 M3/M4 in a straight line. The S58 is B58 in steroids. The S55 was and is a good engine but the B58 and S58 are simply newer and better designs.

Don't take my word for it as MB fanboy Jonny Lieberman can't even deny it;

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...n-test-review/



In the company of TTV8's in this comparison not a single comment of it being underpowered and in fact quite the opposite. Once the G8x are released then people will realize just how good the engine is.
Those 0-60 and 1/4 mile ET numbers only tell me that the X3M benefits from AWD traction from a dig. Trap speed tell a better story. The 2016 M3competiton trapped at 120mph vs the X3Mcompetion at 119mph as tested by C&D. The M3 is also quicker in the 60-100mph.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mw-x3-m-drive/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

The majority of modern turbocharged engines perform better than their power ratings "leads you to believe", that is not a new story. It has to do with how the testing standards are defined. The S58 seems "underrated" in the exact same way the S55 seem "underrated". The fact is that the S58 in competition tune makes ~13% more power than the S55 in competition tune. Power-to-weight is what matters here because it is an apples-to-apples comparison.

That being said, the G8XC will accelerate faster than a F8XC, that's not a question, the power-to-weight ratios tell us that. But power-to-weight also tells us it will unlikely out accelerate a F82 M4GTS. Which was my earlier point, a faster M4GTS with its aero downforce and coil-overs did a 7:34 in the AM&S/SA supertest, so it is unlikely a RWD G8XC will be faster than that.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates

Last edited by CanAutM3; 11-05-2020 at 04:16 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 02:26 PM   #18
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-SP0RT View Post
Don't forget the larger grill means 999x more air
Sadly not, because there's a big bumper in the way behind that grill
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 1
M3AWD1105.00

      11-05-2020, 02:30 PM   #19
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Nothing is a bit strong.

The compressor wheels used in the turbochargers are said to have been upgraded over the S55’s, while the entire charge-air system has been optimized for flow to mitigate pressure losses. An electronically controlled wastegate is also present, along with what BMW refers to as a water-to-air intercooler.

Like the most recent versions of the N63 and S63 V8 engines, the S58’s direct-injection system now boasts fuel pressure that has been increased from 2,900 psi to over 5,000. This mirrors a change made to the corporate V8 last year, which allowed it to reach its highest rated output yet. Benefits include further improved fuel atomization within the combustion chambers, which is best experienced under heavy engine loads with full acceleration from high speeds.

The core of the cylinder head is one of the most interesting components of the S58. Manufactured using an additive process that can best be thought of as incredibly advanced 3D printing, the cylinder-head core takes a shape that would be impossible to create using any other currently available mass-production method. If the skeletal structure seems at all familiar, that’s because the same process is used to manufacture the ultra-lightweight brake calipers of the M850i Night Sky.

One of the main advantages of the core—and the new manufacturing process—is the ability to accommodate the routing of coolant ducts where they previously could not reach, in an effort to better regulate internal temperatures.
True, "nothing" was a bit harsh. But it still offers very limited advances. The S55 also has electronic controlled wastegates as well as a water-to-air intercooling system. The revised compressor wheel (read bigger) is exactly what I said as being the main change. The only difference of significance is the higher injection pressures which should help with off boost throttle response.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates

Last edited by CanAutM3; 11-05-2020 at 02:37 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 02:41 PM   #20
solstice
Major General
4599
Rep
6,458
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
True, "nothing" was a bit harsh. But it still offers very limited advances. The S55 also has electronic controlled wastegates as well as a water-to-air intercooling system. The revised compressor wheel (read bigger) is exactly what I said as being the main change. The only difference of significance is the higher injection pressures which should help with off boost throttle response.
It sounds like there is also internal cooling advances which could make the S58 a more consistent performer when being driven hard for extended periods like a ring fastest lap.
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 02:44 PM   #21
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16500
Rep
19,227
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It sounds like there is also internal cooling advances which could make the S58 a more consistent performer when being driven hard for extended periods like a ring fastest lap.
The S55 did not suffer from cooling problems, quite the opposite actually. The S58 likely needs the extra cooling due the added power it makes. But the advantage remains the extra power, not the extra cooling. It will be interesting to see how the 8AT cooling holds up with sustained track use.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2020, 02:55 PM   #22
solstice
Major General
4599
Rep
6,458
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The S55 did not suffer from cooling problems, quite the opposite actually. The S58 likely needs the extra cooling due the added power it makes. But the advantage remains the extra power, not the extra cooling. It will be interesting to see how the 8AT cooling holds up with sustained track use.
Cooling problems as in overheating and optimal combustion chamber temperatures for maximum power output are not the same thing. Significant power advantages can be had by cooling improvements within what is regarded as “normal range”.
Appreciate 1
heavyD^22208.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw m3, bmw m4, g80, g82, lap times, nring, performance, racing, s58

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST