[weingarm]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

I understand that. All I am saying is that the purpose (and the biggest value) of winter tires in winter is to increase SAFETY. The biggest safety risk in winter is not being able to stop. That's where winter tires are worth at least looking in to. The incline of your commute as an argument to forgo winter tires is not very convincing and its disingenuous to say you'll be fine in winter with inadequate tires because you have awd.

Perhaps I am biased from my location but a lot of provinces in Canada mandate winter tires and you'll have an issue with an insurance claim if you're on inappropriate tires and you cause an accident.

Physics are physics and all season tires are a compromise. From the compound flexibility in the cold to the tread patterns and such. They compromise everything good that independent summer and winter tires do best and therefore are pretty mediocre in all areas. Why buy a 100k car and not invest an extra 5k to have the best performance for conditions in both winter and summer, while maximizing winter safety?

Fair points.

[weingarm]

I agree with much of what’s been said here. I agree that dedicated winter / summer tires are the best choice for the two seasons.

However I guess personally I’m willing to compromise on my cold weather tire and roll with the Michelin Pilot Sport AS4 which is a solid tire for 95% of my cold weather needs.

In summer, I remount the standard Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires to maximize this car’s capabilities. Actually, they’ll be going back on the car in about a week!

Let’s get summer driving season started!

[Hendo741]

Add another vote for DWS 06+. Run them on my M4, and ran them on my M240i in the past. Will run them on the X3M come fall.

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

I understand that. All I am saying is that the purpose (and the biggest value) of winter tires in winter is to increase SAFETY. The biggest safety risk in winter is not being able to stop. That's where winter tires are worth at least looking in to. The incline of your commute as an argument to forgo winter tires is not very convincing and its disingenuous to say you'll be fine in winter with inadequate tires because you have awd.

Perhaps I am biased from my location but a lot of provinces in Canada mandate winter tires and you'll have an issue with an insurance claim if you're on inappropriate tires and you cause an accident.

Physics are physics and all season tires are a compromise. From the compound flexibility in the cold to the tread patterns and such. They compromise everything good that independent summer and winter tires do best and therefore are pretty mediocre in all areas. Why buy a 100k car and not invest an extra 5k to have the best performance for conditions in both winter and summer, while maximizing winter safety?

Why assume everyone who is planning on buying AS or winters is driving in places that have so much snow like your provinces in CA. The OP lives in MA and most of us dont see as much snow as what you folks do. Even with your snow tires, Im guessing you arent driving your 100K performance car like a performance car in a snow storm by speeding and making fast lane changes. So trying to do a blanket statement that all performance cars should be on winters is more biased towards what you are doing. The stopping distance is good with the snow tires, but what good is it if the person behind you isnt able to do that and rams you in the back. You still have to drive cautiously in the snow and be aware of your surroundings. Just becoz u have winter tires doesnt mean you can just zip around and hope someone doesnt ram into you. So winter safety isnt just about handling and stopping distances, its more about your driving habits and people around you. Just drove in the snow storm last Saturday with 8 inches of snow on my X3 with Blizzaks. About 3 inches of unplowed snows on the freeway. I drove 40 mph in a 65 mph but there were people around me speeding on their 2WD cars. Now if they crash, even if Im able to stop before hitting someone, the same cant be said about the person behind me who was tailing me so closely. So performance car or not, you still have to drive sensibly. Just becoz you got a 100K car doesnt mean you need to keep spending unnecessarily on things. 5K is still 5K even if you make a million dollars. So if the need is not there, then why do the overkill. It all depends on peoples needs and utility. People have driven well on AS in snow and done it safely. You dont need a winter tire to drive safely. Just common sense. Different strokes for different folks !!!

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

I understand that. All I am saying is that the purpose (and the biggest value) of winter tires in winter is to increase SAFETY. The biggest safety risk in winter is not being able to stop. That's where winter tires are worth at least looking in to. The incline of your commute as an argument to forgo winter tires is not very convincing and its disingenuous to say you'll be fine in winter with inadequate tires because you have awd.

Perhaps I am biased from my location but a lot of provinces in Canada mandate winter tires and you'll have an issue with an insurance claim if you're on inappropriate tires and you cause an accident.

Physics are physics and all season tires are a compromise. From the compound flexibility in the cold to the tread patterns and such. They compromise everything good that independent summer and winter tires do best and therefore are pretty mediocre in all areas. Why buy a 100k car and not invest an extra 5k to have the best performance for conditions in both winter and summer, while maximizing winter safety?

The fact most people are associating WINTER tires and calling them snow tires is already the problem lol.

They are called winter tires for a reason. For WINTER. Meaning colder climates. They have studded tires for real extreme snowy areas also.

And all season tires are called no season tires for a reason as well lol

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

The fact most people are associating WINTER tires and calling them snow tires is already the problem lol.

They are called winter tires for a reason. For WINTER. Meaning colder climates. They have studded tires for real extreme snowy areas also.

And all season tires are called no season tires for a reason as well lol

Wow…thanks for the explanation captain obvious. All seasons - Summer, Spring, Fall and winter. I guess those rnt any seasons at all. Most places studded tires are illegal unless u live in the mountains or in the boonies. When was the last time u even drove on all seasons..i mean no seasons…lol

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

The fact most people are associating WINTER tires and calling them snow tires is already the problem lol.

They are called winter tires for a reason. For WINTER. Meaning colder climates. They have studded tires for real extreme snowy areas also.

And all season tires are called no season tires for a reason as well lol

This is just not true. An extreme performance all season like the Goodyears/AS4/DWS6 will out perform a summer or a winter tire in 40 degree dry weather/rain on a track. So for me if my track day between November and March is raining my tire will outperform everybody else on summers or a "winter" performance snow.

We got no snow this year in DMV area. So location matters.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

Why assume everyone who is planning on buying AS or winters is driving in places that have so much snow like your provinces in CA. The OP lives in MA and most of us dont see as much snow as what you folks do. Even with your snow tires, Im guessing you arent driving your 100K performance car like a performance car in a snow storm by speeding and making fast lane changes. So trying to do a blanket statement that all performance cars should be on winters is more biased towards what you are doing. The stopping distance is good with the snow tires, but what good is it if the person behind you isnt able to do that and rams you in the back. You still have to drive cautiously in the snow and be aware of your surroundings. Just becoz u have winter tires doesnt mean you can just zip around and hope someone doesnt ram into you. So winter safety isnt just about handling and stopping distances, its more about your driving habits and people around you. Just drove in the snow storm last Saturday with 8 inches of snow on my X3 with Blizzaks. About 3 inches of unplowed snows on the freeway. I drove 40 mph in a 65 mph but there were people around me speeding on their 2WD cars. Now if they crash, even if Im able to stop before hitting someone, the same cant be said about the person behind me who was tailing me so closely. So performance car or not, you still have to drive sensibly. Just becoz you got a 100K car doesnt mean you need to keep spending unnecessarily on things. 5K is still 5K even if you make a million dollars. So if the need is not there, then why do the overkill. It all depends on peoples needs and utility. People have driven well on AS in snow and done it safely. You dont need a winter tire to drive safely. Just common sense. Different strokes for different folks !!!

Huh? When i talk about performance i am saying in terms of safety as in being able to stop, not lap times to Target. Also winter tires are designed for much more than snow. Being made of a compound that works in cold temperatures is probably the most important part of a winter tires design.

Also i may live in Canada but I'm in the driest part of the country and I guarantee the NE USA sees way more snow than I do.

And you're also saying that winter tires are unnecessary for you because the guy behind you may rear end you anyway? Your logic is puzzling.

At the end of the day I don't care what you put on your car but to say that all season tires are capable in winter conditions is completely insane. I swear some of you will nitpick between Shell and Castrol oil non stop or spend 5k on a goofy new grill but when it comes to tire safety you're like F it, these Frankenstein all seasons are good enough for me.

[antzcrashing]

Tires are a very passionate topic. Let’s step back and try to keep it civil. All opinions are welcome, lets just keep it civil

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Huh? When i talk about performance i am saying in terms of safety as in being able to stop, not lap times to Target. Also winter tires are designed for much more than snow. Being made of a compound that works in cold temperatures is probably the most important part of a winter tires design.

Also i may live in Canada but I'm in the driest part of the country and I guarantee the NE USA sees way more snow than I do.

And you're also saying that winter tires are unnecessary for you because the guy behind you may rear end you anyway? Your logic is puzzling.

At the end of the day I don't care what you put on your car but to say that all season tires are capable in winter conditions is completely insane. I swear some of you will nitpick between Shell and Castrol oil non stop or spend 5k on a goofy new grill but when it comes to tire safety you're like F it, these Frankenstein all seasons are good enough for me.

So youve driven separate summers and winters all along but then wanna make this blanket statement that when it comes to AS they are a threat to peoples safety? You've clearly said you live in Canada and winters are recommended, so why the hate when it comes to AS. Did you have an accident when u used to drive on AS and speaking from personal experience or you just spout of data from tire review sites. I know you love ur Pirellis but just becoz u drive winter tires, doesnt mean its insane to drive on AS in winters. What is insane is someone who doesnt have real world experience driving on AS spouting their mouth off and making bold claims. Ive been driving on BOTH winters AND AS like I said in my previous post. Ive used my X3 and my M3 interchangeably this winter and from actual experience Im saying you DONT always need a winter tire to drive ur car in winters. If you are a sensible driver and use common sense you can use ur AS and be able to get by during winter months. No one is saying AS are superior to winters. When the roads are plowed, there isnt a huge difference in driving characteristics if you arent pushing the limits. The temp does affect the compounds but if your arent below 0F and driving on dry pavement you can still drive ur AS as long as you are careful. Ive driven it multiple times this winter and you have people who have driven in the snow and used these with good effect. I dont see why you are so hell bent on not being able to understand that there are options other than winter tires to drive in the winter. If you are that stubborn, then go with ur winter tires. Doesnt mean someone going with AS is making a wrong choice that's endangering their safety. Asinine comments like “since it says winter tires, they r the only ones to use” is just plain ignorant. You can live in ur own bubble and keep using winters, for most of us folk who dont see the need to constantly swap tires every year and dont wanna drive like an a**hole just becoz we have a 550 hp performance car on winters, we will just stick to our AS !!!

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Allerum

This is just not true. An extreme performance all season like the Goodyears/AS4/DWS6 will out perform a summer or a winter tire in 40 degree dry weather/rain on a track. So for me if my track day between November and March is raining my tire will outperform everybody else on summers or a "winter" performance snow.

We got no snow this year in DMV area. So location matters.

So then manufacturers should design a tire specifically for 40 degree weather? lol

Come on man let's not cherry pick a scenario to help your argument. I get what you're saying but that's a bit of a reach.

Also if you read the poster's original post he said he gets a reasonable amount of snow. So you're right location matters.

It's best for OP to have a dedicated summer set and a dedicated winter set. He's already going to spend half as much getting AS tires, then sacrificing summer performance when summer comes just to have adequate performance for winter? lol

This really doesn't make sense when you think about it.

Summer for summer, winter for winter. That makes sense.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So then manufacturers should design a tire specifically for 40 degree weather? lol

Come on man let's not cherry pick a scenario to help your argument. I get what you're saying but that's a bit of a reach.

Also if you read the poster's original post he said he gets a reasonable amount of snow. So you're right location matters.

It's best for OP to have a dedicated summer set and a dedicated winter set. He's already going to spend half as much getting AS tires, then sacrificing summer performance when summer comes just to have adequate performance for winter? lol

This really doesn't make sense when you think about it.

Summer for summer, winter for winter. That makes sense.

Just giving you an actual example in a real common weather condition where an AS is better than a winter or a summer for my personal area. He also said he doesn't get that much snow in the driest part of Canada. So Unless its below 0F then 15F-80F is where most weather is and that's AS category. Like I said unless his conditions (1-6inches) snow dictate otherwise a set of AS will get the most for his money for 98% of the year.

[Bimmer5]

I went with the michelin all season, I have been really impressed with it.
Handles great in wet and dry.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Allerum

Just giving you an actual example in a real common weather condition where an AS is better than a winter or a summer for my personal area. He also said he doesn't get that much snow in the driest part of Canada. So Unless its below 0F then 15F-80F is where most weather is and that's AS category. Like I said unless his conditions (1-6inches) snow dictate otherwise a set of AS will get the most for his money for 98% of the year.

So does he get a reasonable amount or not much?

That’s 2 different scenarios.

No matter how you slice it, if there’s snow or that area gets a reasonable amount, winter tires are better period.

If you get one snow storm a season and it’s like 3 inches, sure AS will work fine.

You’re still sacrificing summer performance just to have adequate winter performance, already spending 50% of the cost for a full winter set anyway.

Winter set is 2800 bucks, that’s with wheels.

Full performance in winter, swap out in summer for full performance in summer.

Done deal.

[weingarm]

Originally Posted by Bimmer5

I went with the michelin all season, I have been really impressed with it.
Handles great in wet and dry.

To this point, Michelin Pilot Sport AS4 is a great tire for about 90% of winter driving in the lower-48 continental USA when temperatures are below 40 degrees and roads are in any condition except maybe thickly snow-covered.

What’s nice is it allows you to maximize the “fun” of driving a sports car like the M3/M4 throughout the winter. A dedicated winter sport tire (like the Pirelli Sottozero or Michelin Pilot Alpin) won’t give you the same handling and steering response as the Michelin Pilot Sport AS4. Not as good as summer Michelin Pilot Sport 4S but hey, you shouldn’t use that below 40 degrees anyways!

Watch this! Remember the Corvette is also RWD!
https://youtu.be/lm6342C4CRo

[Allerum]

I don't like how AS4 ride when worn they get very very noisy. I rank the all seasons in overall performance as4 < dws06+ < Goodyear Exhilarates.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Allerum

I don't like how AS4 ride when worn they get very very noisy. I rank the all seasons in overall performance as4 < dws06+ < Goodyear Exhilarates.

Tire noise is definitely a factor for me too. Have others found rne AS4 to get noisy with wear?

I appreciate all the comments and I still and about 50/50 on getting all seasons and trying for them all year vs. getting dedicated summer and winter tires with a planned swap.

At this point leaning towards all seasons, but still listening 👂

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Tire noise is definitely a factor for me too. Have others found rne AS4 to get noisy with wear?

I appreciate all the comments and I still and about 50/50 on getting all seasons and trying for them all year vs. getting dedicated summer and winter tires with a planned swap.

At this point leaning towards all seasons, but still listening 👂

Had countless AS tires over the years. And NJ winters don't even get that bad. I'm not even talking about just snow alone but the frigid temps DESTROY rubber compounds that aren't made to withstand extreme temps over and over. There is a sacrifice with AS. You're basically meeting right at the middle. Not good at anything, just adequate performance all year round.

You already have the summer set for your car right? Keep those on your stock wheels and spend a bit extra on another set of wheels with dedicated winter tires with good enough sipes for snow and the rubber compound to handle that extreme cold temps and be done.

Btw, i'm rocking AS tires right now on my tesla. And they're ok. I had winter tires on the M3 over the last winter. Just fine.

Had winter tires on my 5th gen camaro for 3 full winters. I never spun, got stuck or even came close to losing control. That's a RWD car.

If you want a set it and forget it route, then i suppose AS tires are the compromise for that route.

[antzcrashing]

I wanna put this to a vote, lol

For BMW M3/M4
A. All season Tires
B. Summers & Winters
C. Other, explain

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

I wanna put this to a vote, lol

For BMW M3/M4
A. All season Tires
B. Summers & Winters
C. Other, explain

Ask yourself this question
1. How much do you drive during winter months
2. Will this be a daily driver or a weekend warrior/fun car
3. How badly does it snow where you live and do u have to be at work come rain or shine or can you wait till the roads r plowed to get to work
4. Do you have an alternate vehicle that you can use when its snowing bad. Say your significant others SUV or something.
5. Do you like to do some fun things in the snow or hit the mountains or wanna do some spirited driving in the cold and take ur car for a spin

If this M4 is gonna be your DD and you need to use in during winter come rain or snow and dont have an alternate vehicle when its snowing hard, go with the winters. Like others said, you can store them at the dealership or tire shop for a paltry sum.

If you feel like you can manage these things, go with AS. The main advantage AS gives u over the winters is the flexibility. That does come with some compromises. You dont have to worry about when to swap your tires between summer and winter, dont have to wait for an appointment at ur dealership and waste time. Can still drive ur car when temps are above 50F without worrying about excessive wear on ur winters and making it more sticky.

So choose the tire that best suits your needs.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

I wanna put this to a vote, lol

For BMW M3/M4
A. All season Tires
B. Summers & Winters
C. Other, explain

IIRC, your winters are worse than NJ.

Get winter tires man lol. Idk why you're over thinking this.

You're going to spend money on tires anyway if you go AS. Do you not want an actual summer tire for summer? Because AS's are not as good in comparison to a good summer tire like a P4S. So you're going to run an AS tire in the summer, for it to perform adequately. Then run the same tire in winter, for it to perform adequately.

Or is it the switching back and forth twice a year that's annoying? That literally takes me 30 minutes, twice a year, to switch the wheel/tire setup from summer to winter, and vice versa.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

Ask yourself this question
1. How much do you drive during winter months
2. Will this be a daily driver or a weekend warrior/fun car
3. How badly does it snow where you live and do u have to be at work come rain or shine or can you wait till the roads r plowed to get to work
4. Do you have an alternate vehicle that you can use when its snowing bad. Say your significant others SUV or something.
5. Do you like to do some fun things in the snow or hit the mountains or wanna do some spirited driving in the cold and take ur car for a spin

If this M4 is gonna be your DD and you need to use in during winter come rain or snow and dont have an alternate vehicle when its snowing hard, go with the winters. Like others said, you can store them at the dealership or tire shop for a paltry sum.

If you feel like you can manage these things, go with AS. The main advantage AS gives u over the winters is the flexibility. That does come with some compromises. You dont have to worry about when to swap your tires between summer and winter, dont have to wait for an appointment at ur dealership and waste time. Can still drive ur car when temps are above 50F without worrying about excessive wear on ur winters and making it more sticky.

So choose the tire that best suits your needs.

This post is my spirit animal