[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by ghaffari46

The International Energy Agency expects over 14 million EVs to be sold globally in 2023, which would account for about 18 percent of total car sales. The figure would represent a 35 percent increase year over year, accounting for as much as 18 percent of total car sales in 2023, so unlike popular belief many people globally embrace EVs.
The breakpoint is 20%, which will happen pretty soon, under 80% market share is not profitable for car companies to keep making ICE. Considering significant environmental changes that are happening now, many more people will embrace EVs( my 10 year old told me this morning I should take tesla instead my m5 to work to be more responsible, go figure!).
So as much as traditional car companies wanted to drag their feet to stay away from EVs, but market and governmental policies make them to be less dependent on ICE cars.

There are no environmental changes. Stop listening to your 10 year old school brain wash. Tell the kid to buy his own when is time. Thereis mass media and brain change. Is all about politics, money and power shifting. Oh! And control…

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

It's worse than that. It's downright false. This quote:

" And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars"

Is utterly, utterly false.

First of all, 'shrinks to a fraction' is completely false. Like patently so. There are hundreds of thousands of EV's on the road, so there is very reliable data. This loss in capacity simply doesn't happen with modern batteries.

Second...'electrical issues'? Yeah, you have some. But what about...

• Rod bearings
• Spun Crank Hubs
• HPFP's crapping out
• Carbon build up on DI engines
• Batteries dying due to on-demand alternators
• VANOS actuators
• Self-destructing cooling systems

And on and on. There are way, WAY more things that can (and have!) gone wrong with BMW Turbo engines. Like..way more.

I'm a former EV owner and a fan. What I can tell you is that there ARE real issues to mass EV adoption. Like, where you charge if you don't live in a single family house. How do you balance emotion with performance. Where do we get all the raw materials to make all these batteries. How good is it if you regularly tow or do hundreds of miles a day on a consistent basis. Etc.

But "loss of capacity" and "electrical issues" are completely solved at this point.

Umm, no theyare not. bring your EV in Canada and drive it when we have -45 degrees and lets see how far you get, how warm you will be and for how long… in a new car, forget about a few years old EV.

[ghaffari46]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

There are no environmental changes. Stop listening to your 10 year old school brain wash. Tell the kid to buy his own when is time. Thereis mass media and brain change. Is all about politics, money and power shifting. Oh! And control…

I think we are living in two different planets.
No point to discuss.
Have fun

[vbb]

Originally Posted by DO444

I don’t know what newsmax is, but nothing you said is real.

You’re just regurgitating talking points from MSNBC. You have no point so you resort to insults. It’s been the playbook of the unthinking for at least a decade.
🥱

So as long as we’re within your circle of comfort then we’re healthy and skeptical, but outside of it and we’re nihilists and… idk who gives a fuck frankly whatever else the hell you said.

The world is black and white now by the way and these are the people you are defending.


It goes on and on… and on, (race anyone?) but the point of this post is not to cite reality, that would be a waste of time on a person such as yourself.

People like you are so boring.
Get out from your “we can work it out” hotbox. I think you’ve had enough.

Seeing as how you quoted my post before you typed out your response, I would presume you actually read it. I did not throw out one single insult or name-call. You on the other hand... well, let's just say you are the one that seems to be unable to have a debate without the ad hominems.

My point is it seems you are the very definition of that which you seem to dislike so much. Either we think like YOU do, or we're sheep, lemmings, leftists, Fauci devotees (I mean how did we even get on the Fauci and vaccine subject), MSNBC watchers and everything else under the sun. You don't know me or anyone else on this site. You have NO IDEA what I believe or don't believe unless I've said it, which I didn't. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling, but it sure seems that in the relatively short time you've been on this forum, you've spent a lot of keystrokes on being generally unhelpful and unfriendly. I'm not sure why you've decided to spend your time that way, but I don't know you any more than you know me. I'm not going to insult or namecall you though because that's not my style. You do whatever makes you feel good though.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by vbb

Seeing as how you quoted my post before you typed out your response, I would presume you actually read it. I did not throw out one single insult or name-call. You on the other hand... well, let's just say you are the one that seems to be unable to have a debate without the ad hominems.

My point is it seems you are the very definition of that which you seem to dislike so much. Either we think like YOU do, or we're sheep, lemmings, leftists, Fauci devotees (I mean how did we even get on the Fauci and vaccine subject), MSNBC watchers and everything else under the sun. You don't know me or anyone else on this site. You have NO IDEA what I believe or don't believe unless I've said it, which I didn't. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling, but it sure seems that in the relatively short time you've been on this forum, you've spent a lot of keystrokes on being generally unhelpful and unfriendly. I'm not sure why you've decided to spend your time that way, but I don't know you any more than you know me. I'm not going to insult or namecall you though because that's not my style. You do whatever makes you feel good though.

Seeing as how you what?
Lol.

What kinda psycho babble is that. How am I supposed to quote your post lmao.

I don’t ever feel good, but thanks.
Nothing you said in this reply has any meaning. So why bother writing it?

You waded into the thread and threw mud at me and now you’re crying because I responded to you?

I’m sorry you hurt your feelings on something I said.


Isn’t this you?
So you waded into a sidecar on a thread to throw shit and then cry when someone responds to you?

Lol.

Why is it that so many people see the world in such stark dichotomies? I'm seeing a lot of posts where a belief in science somehow equals a blue pulled lemming that has been duped by the government. That's not only wrong, but dangerous. It's healthy to be skeptical, but to be a nihilist or a tin-foil conspiracy theorist isn't the only other answer. It is still shocking to me that people actually lean in to this way of thinking… stay off newsmax…

You don’t seem to understand the difference between believing in science and being a skeptic, of which actual science is based on.

There is zero wrong with the guy making a statement that oil fields can refill and everything wrong with the people slandering him. Whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant.

That has clearly flown way over your head.
That’s rich about reading the post before you reapond, it’s clear you didn’t.




Sigh,
I don’t know you.
But, you know that I watch newsmax.


Always the same.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by vbb

Why is it that so many people see the world in such stark dichotomies? I'm seeing a lot of posts where a belief in science somehow equals a blue pulled lemming that has been duped by the government. That's not only wrong, but dangerous. It's healthy to be skeptical, but to be a nihilist or a tin-foil conspiracy theorist isn't the only other answer. It is still shocking to me that people actually lean in to this way of thinking.

Governments are pushing electric vehicles for profits, sure (the battle should be with commercial carriers, not personal vehicles), but that doesn't mean that all science is BS. And oil wells recharging? Seriously? Stay off Newsmax bro.

Originally Posted by DO444

Seeing as how you what?
Lol.

What kinda psycho babble is that. How am I supposed to quote your post lmao.

I don’t ever feel good, but thanks.
Nothing you said in this reply has any meaning. So why bother writing it?

You waded into the thread and threw mud at me and now you’re crying because I responded to you?

I’m sorry you hurt your feelings on something I said.

The above is what I initially typed. I quoted it again for your convenience. Somehow that led you to a.) believe I was throwing mud at and/or insulting you, and b.) reply with a long response talking about Fauci, embedding videos and all kinds of other things that have zero to do with electric cars.

Some science is accurate and verifiable through experimentation and the scientific method, and can be repeated. Then we have scientific opinion that is theory and hypothesis that some people try to pass off as fact. A lot of people can't tell the difference between the two, but that doesn't mean there isn't a difference.

But really, you seem to be more interested in arguing and ranting then discussing. I can assure you that my feelings aren't hurt. You must be enjoying yourself, as am I.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by vbb

The above is what I initially typed. I quoted it again for your convenience. Somehow that led you to a.) believe I was throwing mud at and/or insulting you, and b.) reply with a long response talking about Fauci, embedding videos and all kinds of other things that have zero to do with electric cars.

Some science is accurate and verifiable through experimentation and the scientific method, and can be repeated. Then we have scientific opinion that is theory and hypothesis that some people try to pass off as fact. A lot of people can't tell the difference between the two, but that doesn't mean there isn't a difference.

But really, you seem to be more interested in arguing and ranting then discussing. I can assure you that my feelings aren't hurt. You must be enjoying yourself, as am I.

Sure, it’s fun.
Words don’t seem to have any meaning to you so I’m not taking it too seriously.

You’re also super passive aggressive.
You throw shade then run away and hide behind, “I didn’t say that, you cn’t readz.”

[vbb]

Originally Posted by DO444

Sure, it’s fun.
Words don’t seem to have any meaning to you so I’m not taking it too seriously.

You’re also super passive aggressive.
You throw shade then run away and hide behind, “I didn’t say that, you cn’t readz.”

I'm not hiding.

Your posts suggest that you believe that somehow it is all connected... Covid, electric cars, oil wells, Fauci, race, politics, MSNBC. Your arguments aren't cohesive or persuasive. You're just stating conclusions. And when I (or someone else) points it out, you claim that I don't understand language and my words have no meaning.

I don't happen to believe that mandating personal/passenger vehicles switch to electric power makes any sense. It seems a lot of people in this thread don't believe this either. That said, my thoughts on this have zero to do with my thoughts on covid and the other topics you keep inserting into the discussion.

It is possible to believe some things that "the government" or "the media" tells us, without believing everything they tell us. You seem to disagree with that. And to repeat my first post on this, I find that kind of thinking to be wrong and dangerous.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

Umm, no theyare not. bring your EV in Canada and drive it when we have -45 degrees and lets see how far you get, how warm you will be and for how long… in a new car, forget about a few years old EV.

80% of all new cars in Norway are EV’s. Don’t see them having issues.

Nice try though.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by vbb

I'm not hiding.

Your posts suggest that you believe that somehow it is all connected... Covid, electric cars, oil wells, Fauci, race, politics, MSNBC. Your arguments aren't cohesive or persuasive. You're just stating conclusions. And when I (or someone else) points it out, you claim that I don't understand language and my words have no meaning.

I don't happen to believe that mandating personal/passenger vehicles switch to electric power makes any sense. It seems a lot of people in this thread don't believe this either. That said, my thoughts on this have zero to do with my thoughts on covid and the other topics you keep inserting into the discussion.

It is possible to believe some things that "the government" or "the media" tells us, without believing everything they tell us. You seem to disagree with that. And to repeat my first post on this, I find that kind of thinking to be wrong and dangerous.

Look, been fun.
Be well.

[zinner]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The EV road car is not a track car. You are comparing apples and bananas.

There are EV race cars; look at Formula E.

If you want a track car buy one. Most M buyers are not tracking their cars.

This thread is about an m3, a factory track capable car. And you literally just compared apples to oranges with your formula e comment....

[hufington]

[Th3DarkSide]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

NEW cars. Why problems when new? More densed populates per area and small distances compared to Canada. In Canada distances are huge and an electric car in some instances is pure suicide. There are areas where you can see signs like “next service or gas station in 400 or 500 km.”

Ask the fellow that I picked last winter when his new Tesla was out of juice on highway. We become friends. Oh, and Tesla got sold a week later. He drives a petrol Cayenne now. No return to EV.

Norway has a governmental imposed EV agenda, hence you pay through your nose for a gas vehicle as import duty so people are forced to buy an electric (zero duty) or not buy it at all. See gas prices too. So much for free choice and freedom.

Canada is way colder. And while both registered similar lower temperatures as records, Canada has stable long and cold winters (over 6 months. We had snow during summer months too and it was a snowstorm on June this year. see attached picture) with persistent periods of continuous -25 and some weeks with -40/-45, while Norway has less and warmer winters (4 months). 3-4 days outside for your EV in a canadian small town and you are dead. A petrol will start weeks later. Maybe 3-4 weeks later at such temperatures needs a boost but thats it.

It is proven that EV battery power drops at nearly 54% or lower during winter in a -15Celsius. At -45 you do the math. In fact Tesla is facing a lawsuit in Korea (almost 3 billion fine) as we speak for not disclosing this small fine print…

Why Bother? He’s a “believer”. Haha

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

80% of all new cars in Norway are EV’s. Don’t see them having issues. Nice try though.

NEW cars. Why problems when new? More densed populates per area and small distances compared to Canada. In Canada distances are huge and an electric car in some instances is pure suicide. There are areas where you can see signs like “next service or gas station in 400 or 500 km.”

Ask the fellow that I picked last winter when his new Tesla was out of juice on highway. We become friends. Oh, and Tesla got sold a week later. He drives a petrol Cayenne now. No return to EV.

Norway has a governmental imposed EV agenda, hence you pay through your nose for a gas vehicle as import duty so people are forced to buy an electric (zero duty) or not buy it at all. See gas prices too. So much for free choice and freedom.

Canada is way colder. And while both registered similar lower temperatures as records, Canada has stable long and cold winters (over 6 months. We had snow during summer months too and it was a snowstorm on June this year. see attached picture) with persistent periods of continuous -25 and some weeks with -40/-45, while Norway has less and warmer winters (4 months). 3-4 days outside for your EV in a canadian small town and you are dead. A petrol will start weeks later. Maybe 3-4 weeks later at such temperatures needs a boost but thats it.

It is proven that EV battery power drops at nearly 54% or lower during winter in a -15Celsius. At -45 you do the math. In fact Tesla is facing a lawsuit in Korea (almost 3 billion won fine) as we speak for not disclosing this small fine print…

[louderthanschnell]

I have a I3s (120ah) as a daily, i decided to give a try and give a chance to ev-s but this is my last one. During the winter if i don't want to freeze the consumption is 22-24 kw/h (and it is not to warm in the car), and the range runs out disturbingly quickly, during the summer 11-12kw/h.
I have it since 2022 January now i have 17.000km on the clock, so it is not an old car with high mileage. Luckily I only travel 15 km a day but i hate the car, when the weather is nice i drive my m2 competition. When my G80 arrives next year i will sell the i3 and the m2 and the M3 will be my daily. Never ever EV-s for me.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by evobeatsti

I’d be open to a hybrid but would not buy an all electric m3, defeats the whole
Purpose of the car…

Not even if it was a quad e-motor beast❔

The idea of such a car sounds absolutely amazing

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

It is proven that EV battery power drops at nearly 54% or lower during winter in a -15Celsius. At -45 you do the math. In fact Tesla is facing a lawsuit in Korea (almost 3 billion won fine) as we speak for not disclosing this small fine print…

I am a firm believer that EV is not for everyone, everywhere. As I have actually owned two, experienced it, and spoken to owners. Yes, even owners in, gasp, Canada.

Government mandates to push EV's are foolhardy and will be rolled back. They just cannot replace every ICE vehicle. Too many situations.

However your FUD is laughable. Just because it doesn't work in some, fringe, situations, doesn't mean it's not a viable solution for a very large portion of the driving public.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Agreed…

More fear-based story telling ❕

[Needsdecaf]

I will further follow up to say that while I am a massive fan of EV, I do believe the following:

• There is a fair amount of ignoring certain environmental impacts / outright greenwashing regarding EV's. I believe that most manufacturers are realistic about this but politicians jump on the "convenient and likely to get me re-elected" bandwagon and ignore this.
• EV's are best for people who can charge at home, or who must use public charging but have very small daily commutes. After that the difficulty of living with an EV goes up tremendously.
• Living with an EV is way less difficult than most people think it is. There is a tremendous amount of fear regarding range and charging but the reality is that almost never comes into play unless you're just a doofus
• The smoothness of the driving experience compared to your average commuter car cannot be beat. however....
• EV's do rob emotion out of performance vehicles, despite the amout of performance they provide. The lack of sound is particularly jarring to many people and does rob a lot of the emotional experience of driving a car. Hence all the wacky "sound signatures" that EV manufacturers are testing right now.
• EV's are in their infancy. The technology is growing and so is the infrastructure. Right now, it is good to continue to adopt them but it must be done on a more measured basis. Start incentivizing fleets like UPS, FedEX, USPS, DHL, Amazon, School Buses, transit buses, etc. to go EV. That makes the most sense from a technology wise.

There is a reason that after two EV's, I chose to forgo a Taycan and go to a G80 as my daily. The G80 may very well be the last non-electrified new car I buy as my kids go to college and I go on a 7-10 year car buying hiatus. As much fun as a Taycan is (and it really is), I do miss the mechanical nature of an ICE car for a performance vehicle. For my wife's Cayenne EHybrid? Well, I kinda wish it was a full EV. But I never drove a Mercedes AMG EQ and that would really have been the only thing that would have compared...for now. And no, a Model X Plaid would not have remotely been a good substitute.

So....electrify CAREFULLY BMW. Don't rush to do it for "greening" sake. And watch the weight....look at where that got Mercedes. The C63 is going to BOMB. But the 911 hybrid.....I have hopes.

[eddj]

please NO HYBRID version because as seen with the hybrid engines on the likes like XM , the new C63S ,etc the drivetrain is still a big mess and all reviewers which tested these cars until now all said the performances felt very underwhelming for their each on paper power figures...

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by eddj

please NO HYBRID version because as seen with the hybrid engines on the likes like XM , the new C63S ,etc the drivetrain is still a big mess and all reviewers which tested these cars until now all said the performances felt very underwhelming for their each on paper power figures...

Yup, those hybrid F1 cars sure are underwhelming...

...tongue in cheek, but my point being that hybrid done well can ADD to the experience. Such as:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-ride-review/

https://www.hagerty.com/media/new-ca...like-no-other/

They don't seem to be underwhelmed....

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by zinner

This thread is about an m3, a factory track capable car. And you literally just compared apples to oranges with your formula e comment....

I wasn't comparing apples and oranges.

Reality is, very few M cars see the track.

Also the thread seems to be a piling on of people that just don't like EV without any valid arguments.

If you want to say EVs are heavy; fine.
If you want to talk about range time to fuel; fine.
If you want to talk about possible heat soaking; without adequate battery cooling; fine.

But others are talking nonsense about severe battery degradation in half the warranty period. Or reliability issues that don't exist, but sure did with my E90 335. Talk about reliability; lest talk about the bearing issues in the E90 M3 and E6x M5/6.

Anyway, you can build a track ready electric, just most people that buy an M3 would find it cost prohibitive. The question isn't if BMW can build one; it's could you afford it if they did?

There is no point in a $200k+ M3.