[codestar]

So with the official announcements of the new caddy blackwings, what does everyone think about how they match up with the 6MT base specs of the G8x cars?

The CT4-VB is almost identical in terms of hp/tq but is slightly smaller and cheaper

The CT5-VB is a monster with over 200hp and tq difference over the 6MT g8x, but slightly larger and slightly more expensive

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022...t-look-review/

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022...t-look-review/

i was really bummed about the 6MT limitations of the base m4, which makes the ct5-vb look real enticing... Pretty slick looking cars! I still want two doors though

[M3AWD]

I watched the launch of the CT4&5 VBW last night and I was not impressed at all by the exterior & interior design.

The CT4-VBW would need to be another $10k cheaper to tempt me to move from BMW to Cadillac.

The CT5-VBW appears to have a great drivetrain, sounds awesome, and will probably drive very well too. But I can't see myself spending such money on a Cadillac tbh.

[Transfer]

If I wanted a manual transmission and RWD I would for sure be interested in the CT4 blackwing vs M3. Sadly they aren't giving us an AWD option which I'm making a requirement.

[dantm3]

The CT4 V Blackwing has an optional 6 speed, 476hp, and goes from zero to 60MPH in 3.8 seconds. From a looks standpoint, it’s a little more classic than the M3 with its radical new front bumper, but it’s still aggressive and sporty. The starting price is actually under $60k as well.

[solstice]

I’m suspecting very few are willing to trade the overall BMW experience product+company/dealer with that of GM.

[dantm3]

Originally Posted by solstice

I’m suspecting very few are willing to trade the overall BMW experience product+company/dealer with that of GM.

True.. but some may look elsewhere due to the changes to the G80 front end. I need to see it in person but it's slowly growing on me. I would love to see how the Cadillac drives compared to bmws I've owned

[TargaM2]

I realize the new M3/4 aren't going to win a beauty contest but man that Cadillac is horrid.

[codestar]

i've seen a lot of different publications going each way on which of the two is the "m3 fighter". The CT5-VB can certainly hang with the next class up (aside from no AWD), but with it being in between m3 and m5 sizing I don't think it's unreasonable to compare it to the manual m3/m4.

Comparing the ct5-vb 6MT to the m3 6MT is where I think it gets interesting: very slightly larger, very slightly more expensive with options, but loads more HP/TQ. Styling is subjective so won't really dive into that. From a reliability standpoint I've never owned a GM but I can't imagine it would cost more than some of the repairs i've had on my current car. A warranty would take care of the big ticket items anyway, and most people move on to the next greatest toy before the repairs really start to pile on anyway

Comparing the ct-4vb 6MT to the m3: costs more like an m340i, in between the 2- and 3-series for sizing, almost identical HP, and almost identical torque to the base spec ZF8 (almost like GM saw all of the people questioning why the torque rating was neutered on the 6MT g8x). I think this becomes an interesting "m3 fighter" for those who truly believe that the new G8x cars are too heavy. Caddy didn't announce weight but based purely on size I'm thinking it'll weigh less than the m3.

The ATS-V and CTS-V that both of these vehicles replace were both proven to be able to run with the big dogs from Germany, and I recall most of the detriments to those cars wasn't their chassis or engines but their interiors and pricing. It looks like cadillac addressed those issues and then spiced it up by keeping the 6MT and added even more power, which I think even BMWophiles should give them a round of applause for!

Like I said in my first post, I want 2 doors anyway, but I do think that either of the two V Blackwings certainly deserve to b,e and will be, cross shopped against the new M's!

[Jcali86]

I'd never buy an American made car so not going to be an option, the interior standards are too low. Great option for a lot of people who just want a lot of bhp, but not much else.

[trey100]

The Cadillacs always got great reviews for steering, suspension, and performance. Better than the F80s but they lost points on things like exterior design, interior design and CUE. And of course they don't have the public image of an M car. This latter point is what holds them back the most.

I've seen the CT4-V in person and it does not have the presence of my M3 but it seems they tried to address some of these issues in this black wing version. The front fascia is much improved and they put the carbon fiber bits in places, more aggressive seats, steering wheel, and added the nice digital dash. Unfortunately for Caddy they are still struggling to shake their old man stigma. I really want to see them succeed because they really invested in creating great performance cars.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by solstice

I'm suspecting very few are willing to trade the overall BMW experience product+company/dealer with that of GM.

I agree this and the Caddy stigma are where most of the issues lie. Interesting though that we consider ourselves enthusiasts above all else but in reality a car purchase is much more.

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by trey100

I agree this and the Caddy stigma are where most of the issues lie. Interesting though that we consider ourselves enthusiasts above all else but in reality a car purchase is much more.

I have a a 2018 CTS VSport (Morello Red Edition) powered by the 3.6 TT 420hp/430 ft-lbs (LF3) which is a slightly detuned version of the 3.6 TT (LF3) in the ATS-V. I have owned 18 various BMW’s since 1994 starting with an E36 325i. This VSport is as adept or better at handling as any of my past and/or present BMWs. CUE quirks aside the interior quality is fine. The tech is not bad either, extra cooling, Magride, LSD, ACC, reconfigurable HD digital dash, HUD, CarPlay/Android Auto, Rear View Mirror Camera ,etc The Alcantara/Leather Recaro seats seal the deal. Taste in cars, like style is personal, I get it. However, no one can deny the Alpha Chassis underpinned ATS/CTS, CT4/CT5 and Camaro for that matter are world class handlers. The CT4-V/CT5-V Blackwings are Swan Songs for Cadillac ICE cars. Rest assured they will hold their own against the competition.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by car_fan

I have a a 2018 CTS VSport (Morello Red Edition) powered by the 3.6 TT 420hp/430 ft-lbs (LF3) which is a slightly detuned version of the 3.6 TT (LF3) in the ATS-V. I have owned 18 various BMW's since 1994 starting with an E36 325i. This VSport is as adept or better at handling as any of my past and/or present BMWs. CUE quirks aside the interior quality is fine. The tech is not bad either, extra cooling, Magride, LSD, ACC, reconfigurable HD digital dash, HUD, CarPlay/Android Auto, Rear View Mirror Camera ,etc The Alcantara/Leather Recaro seats seal the deal. Taste in cars, like style is personal, I get it. However, no one can deny the Alpha Chassis underpinned ATS/CTS, CT4/CT5 and Camaro for that matter are world class handlers. The CT4-V/CT5-V Blackwings are Swan Songs for Cadillac ICE cars. Rest assured they will hold their own against the competition.

Yeah if you see my previous post I kind of repeat what you say here. As a car, mechanically they got it right. The design is a bit of hit or miss depending on what you like but I think their biggest issue is the Caddy stigma. If you tell someone you have a Caddy vs a BMW, it's mostly a different perception.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by solstice

I’m suspecting very few are willing to trade the overall BMW experience product+company/dealer with that of GM.

I won't even RENT a Cadillac on vacation in Florida.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I won't even RENT a Cadillac on vacation in Florida.

Only time I have been in them is when I get Uber selects or blacks (back when work travel was a thing). They were always a squeak fest with cheap plastic feeling leather and the bounciest rides on earth. There's a reason they don't try and sell them outside of America.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by dantm3

True.. but some may look elsewhere due to the changes to the G80 front end. I need to see it in person but it's slowly growing on me. I would love to see how the Cadillac drives compared to bmws I've owned

The caddy aint a looker, I actually prefer the G80 styling.

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by M3AWD

I watched the launch of the CT4&5 VBW last night and I was not impressed at all by the exterior & interior design.

The CT4-VBW would need to be another $10k cheaper to tempt me to move from BMW to Cadillac.

The CT5-VBW appears to have a great drivetrain, sounds awesome, and will probably drive very well too. But I can't see myself spending such money on a Cadillac tbh.

I remember a time when BMW didn't wow anyone with their interior or exterior designs, but the driving experience was second to none....

There is nothing wrong with this viewpoint, but I just want to point out that it's odd to see BMW enthusiasts turn their nose up at competitors based on styling or the like. The same criticism used to be leveled at BMW, in which the reply would be "if you want a nice interior, buy a Lexus; if you want care anything about the driving experience, buy a BMW".

Times have changed ...

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

I remember a time when BMW didn't wow anyone with their interior or exterior designs, but the driving experience was second to none....

There is nothing wrong with this viewpoint, but I just want to point out that it's odd to see BMW enthusiasts turn their nose up at competitors based on styling or the like. The same criticism used to be leveled at BMW, in which the reply would be "if you want a nice interior, buy a Lexus; if you want care anything about the driving experience, buy a BMW".

Times have changed ...

To me BMW always delivered on styling and never disappointed with the driving experience.

But Cadillac is a brand that just doesn't appeal to me, just like BMW doesn't appeal to some people. I find the design boring and very conservative so it doesn't match what I'm looking for in my next $80k+ car. And I'm not impressed with their interior quality or tech. Cadillacs are not associated with older people for no reason.

[Wheelwright]

If this Cadillac has Tremek 6-speed, it might be a good selling point because Tremeks are considered superior to BMW's rubbery shifters. And the costs of parts & labour should be more reasonable with Cadillac as well. So I would give this Caddy a chance.

[car_fan]

I’m 19 BMW’s in and counting, and will still happily drive a Cadillac. There are a number of “current” BMW’s that squeak & creak as well with a number of well known quality control issues. Not too long ago, I had a brand new $90k BMW fail on me with 700 miles on the odo. If you think BMW’s quality control is beyond reproach I have a bridge to sell you Sure there are a number of Caddy’s that can be associated with geriatrics. But then there are other Cadillac variants that are undoubtedly drivers cars. BTW: Cadillac has done pretty well in endurance racing as well. Guesss some of those old guys like to drive

2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020
Consecutive Champions
Cadillac Racing Trophy Icon
MICHELIN NORTH AMERICAN
ENDURANCE CUP
2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020
Consecutive Champions
Cadillac Racing Trophy Icon
IMSA WEATHERTECH
SPORTSCAR CHAMPIONSHIP
2017 and 2018 Consecutive Champions

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by M3AWD

To me BMW always delivered on styling and never disappointed with the driving experience.

But Cadillac is a brand that just doesn't appeal to me, just like BMW doesn't appeal to some people. I find the design boring and very conservative so it doesn't match what I'm looking for in my next $80k+ car. And I'm not impressed with their interior quality or tech. Cadillacs are not associated with older people for no reason.

Nothing wrong with that. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" right? You are the first person (that I've seen) who referred to Cadillac's styling as boring and very conservative. Again, this used to be a common complaints against BMWs.

Still, more competition is a win for all involved ...

[matmanx1]

I'm no respecter of the badge. I'll drive and own whatever I find compelling. Cadillac, BMW, Lexus, Ford, Hyundai (I am actually interested in the upcoming Kona N!) Subaru, whatever. If I like it I'll give it a chance regardless of who's name is on the hood.

Well, except for maybe Alfa Romeo. Too many horror stories with the Giulia QF!