[reddemon73]

A few weekend ago, I decided to go test drive the new M3 since I always wanted an M3 but brought the 2020 QV instead because of the horrendous grill (never seen in real life).

The M3 in person not bad especially in Metallic black. Here is my impression between the two cars:

-I still like the QV exterior better than the M3
-M3 interior is much better looking
-M3 has more techies stuff
-QV engine sound much better. The downshift sound of the QV is intoxicating.
-QV drive much smoother in normal mode versus the M3
-M3 can be dial in much more than the QV. QV only has 4 driving mode.



I am able to trade in my QV at the same price I purchased it back in November 2020. The M3 will be sold at MSRP. That will be a difference of $14k extra. Would you pull the trigger?

[02M3ForMe]

I came up to Kirkland to test drive a QF a couple of weeks ago. Putting money aside, yes, I’d make the trade. The Alfa is a great car; I enjoyed shifting it up and down with the big column-mounted aluminum paddles. The G8x is clearly a next-gen product, from speed and overall performance to tech features and interior design/construction.

Based on your described deal, I’d try to get a 3-5% concession on the M3 Comp. If this is BMW Seattle, while they can and probably will be firm, they did have an older QF trade that moved pretty quickly about a month ago; you’re walking in with something they’re happy to take in. The market has moved quite favorably in your direction.

[barryc365]

I seriously considered the QV. it is a beautiful car.
Ultimately when I read the long term road test of one magazine who had the car for 40k miles I decided to go with the M3. They had spent a lot of time in the shop, waiting for parts and repairs. I don't have time for this. Now maybe the bugs have been worked out but either way I don't think the QV will hold its value as well so if you've experienced it and can sell it at no loss it might be a good trade to make if you've already experienced it.

If you love the QV then maybe you're in no rush to sell? Hang on to it and order the AWD M3 if AWD is appealing?

That's what I was thinking, drive the QV for the summer and then swap in to an AWD M3 but a nice M3 came up and I just jumped on it given they are hard to get right now

[reddemon73]

All,

Thank you for your thoughtful inputs. I wonder how hard is it to maintain BSM car. I am anal when it comes to keeping my car clean and in perfect condition. Does the metallic in this car help with swirl marks and scratches?

[Ginster6]

do it...
I said goodby to my Guilia QV 4 week ago. and the dealer sold it in a week.
agreed on...
-alfa looks better, but G80 is glowing on me.
-sound... there is nothing out there that sound like a Italian stock car.
-If I want a G80 comp. I would just kept my Alfa. Got manual.

overall. after 4 week of ownership. 1 x autocross, 3 x canyon run. it is a different feel to the alfa.

The words I have been using.. Alfa is a toy , G80 is a tool.

end of day. if you get back what you pay for . trade it..

[barryc365]

BSM looks amazing but as you note it shows dust and dirt quickly. It wouldn't stop me buying it but each to their own

PPF / Ceramic might help with your anal-ness?

[wj100]

As a current QV driver, I'm facing a similar dilemma. I've had a short test drive in a G80, but not long enough to really get a sense of the car. My initial impressions:

--Alfa felt way lighter on its feet and more agile/alive
--Alfa ZF feedback/feel was superior
--Alfa soundtrack was better
--M3 interior/tech was way better
--M3 brake feel was superior (weakest part of the driving dynamics on the QV)
--Looks - I like both honestly for different reasons

I still have about a year of warranty left on my Alfa and, knock on wood, it's been completely trouble free for the first almost 3 years. I'll probably wait until AWD is available and the market cools down a bit and will order a G80x in 6 months or so...

[Macheins]

Originally Posted by weinerj100

As a current QV driver, I'm facing a similar dilemma. I've had a short test drive in a G80, but not long enough to really get a sense of the car. My initial impressions:

--Alfa felt way lighter on its feet and more agile/alive
--Alfa ZF feedback/feel was superior
--Alfa soundtrack was better
--M3 interior/tech was way better
--M3 brake feel was superior (weakest part of the driving dynamics on the QV)
--Looks - I like both honestly for different reasons

I still have about a year of warranty left on my Alfa and, knock on wood, it's been completely trouble free for the first almost 3 years. I'll probably wait until AWD is available and the market cools down a bit and will order a G80x in 6 months or so...

I'm fortunate enough to have both a F80 and QV right now and will be trading out the F80 for a G80. I think these comments are on point more than most.

Today I honestly have more fun driving the Alfa than my F80. Saying it feels more alive is probably the best way I've seen it described. From a pure driving perspective, it's just more fun to me for spirited driving or cruising. The steering feel is exceptional and the exhaust note in dynamic cant be touched by the F80.

That said, when compared to the G80, the Alfa shows its age bigger than ever on the interior. A fully loaded Alfa isn't going to feel BAD to sit in by any means. We have a silver/white interior and it still feels more upscale than most cars... But the quality and tech in the new G80 is going to be a step above.

I'm fully intending on grabbing the 2022 QV to replace our 2019 because my wife and I both absolutely love that platform (and given recent news it's not likely to survive long). I don't think I'll ever get in it and think of it as a lesser car... But I do see the G80 as being a next Gen and possibly last of the ICE M cars you can get.

In the end its a matter of pure preference. Both are great cars for different reasons. Is it worth a 14k swing for the G80? If it was my only car I'd probably do it given the used car market value right now... Otherwise I'd likely just keep the Alfa and get a G80 after the market corrects itself way down the road.

[wj100]

Originally Posted by Macheins

I'm fortunate enough to have both a F80 and QV right now and will be trading out the F80 for a G80. I think these comments are on point more than most.

Today I honestly have more fun driving the Alfa than my F80. Saying it feels more alive is probably the best way I've seen it described. From a pure driving perspective, it's just more fun to me for spirited driving or cruising. The steering feel is exceptional and the exhaust note in dynamic cant be touched by the F80.

That said, when compared to the G80, the Alfa shows its age bigger than ever on the interior. A fully loaded Alfa isn't going to feel BAD to sit in by any means. We have a silver/white interior and it still feels more upscale than most cars... But the quality and tech in the new G80 is going to be a step above.

I'm fully intending on grabbing the 2022 QV to replace our 2019 because my wife and I both absolutely love that platform (and given recent news it's not likely to survive long). I don't think I'll ever get in it and think of it as a lesser car... But I do see the G80 as being a next Gen and possibly last of the ICE M cars you can get.

In the end its a matter of pure preference. Both are great cars for different reasons. Is it worth a 14k swing for the G80? If it was my only car I'd probably do it given the used car market value right now... Otherwise I'd likely just keep the Alfa and get a G80 after the market corrects itself way down the road.

Originally Posted by Macheins

Saying it feels more alive is probably the best way I've seen it described. From a pure driving perspective, it's just more fun to me for spirited driving or cruising.

Glad my comments hit home for you. As an aside, I'm a former G90 and F82 owner and it felt weird stepping away from the brand to get the Alfa. But only a few minutes on a test drive in the QV made me an instant believer and I was sold. Unfortunately, I didn't feel that way when I got some time behind the wheel of a G82.

[02M3ForMe]

Here are my more complete thoughts that I posted right after my Alfa QF test drive.

My test drive was relatively short and I had limited time through twisty sections. The steering felt pleasantly light and direct. The wheel itself is thinner at the rim and of a smaller diameter, which I believe positively contributed to the feel. The G80's steering feels heavier even in Comfort, with comparable directness. The handling is not quite as composed as the G80; the chassis moved around in situations where the G80 stays planted.

As a driver's car, it sits between the F80 and the G80. I certainly understand why some people picked this over the older M3. It's faster, handles better, and is more fun to drive than the F80. (It did exhibit an odd behavior in first gear where it didn't want to put down full power in anything but Race mode.) It also does a few subjective things arguably better than the F80 (sound, interior). In retrospect, it's amazing that Alfa hit the ground running with a true M3 competitor that could credibly claim superiority in a couple of important areas.

I think most of the positivity around the QF's drive is based on comparisons with the F80. On the other hand, the G80 clearly feels like a next-generation performance car; it's faster again, with even better handling.

Compared to the G80, I wasn't a fan of the QF's interior and technology features. Complete dealbreaker for me. Though the materials used are excellent, the interior design seems really dated. Clearly an F8x-era car. The infotainment is several steps behind even pre-G iDrive. The gauge cluster is a generation back from BMW's highly configurable Live Cockpit. On the plus side, I loved the QF's big, column-mounted aluminum shift paddles.

If you absolutely hate the looks of the G80, it's a very nice backup option if we're strictly talking about the drive.

[reddemon73]

Originally Posted by weinerj100

Glad my comments hit home for you. As an aside, I'm a former G90 and F82 owner and it felt weird stepping away from the brand to get the Alfa. But only a few minutes on a test drive in the QV made me an instant believer and I was sold. Unfortunately, I didn't feel that way when I got some time behind the wheel of a G82.

Very tempting input. Just went and paid off my QV on Monday. Might pull the trigger soon. Keep the G80 for two years and get into my dream car, prancing horse.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by Macheins

I'm fortunate enough to have both a F80 and QV right now and will be trading out the F80 for a G80. I think these comments are on point more than most.

Today I honestly have more fun driving the Alfa than my F80. Saying it feels more alive is probably the best way I've seen it described. From a pure driving perspective, it's just more fun to me for spirited driving or cruising. The steering feel is exceptional and the exhaust note in dynamic cant be touched by the F80.

That said, when compared to the G80, the Alfa shows its age bigger than ever on the interior. A fully loaded Alfa isn't going to feel BAD to sit in by any means. We have a silver/white interior and it still feels more upscale than most cars... But the quality and tech in the new G80 is going to be a step above.

I'm fully intending on grabbing the 2022 QV to replace our 2019 because my wife and I both absolutely love that platform (and given recent news it's not likely to survive long). I don't think I'll ever get in it and think of it as a lesser car... But I do see the G80 as being a next Gen and possibly last of the ICE M cars you can get.

In the end its a matter of pure preference. Both are great cars for different reasons. Is it worth a 14k swing for the G80? If it was my only car I'd probably do it given the used car market value right now... Otherwise I'd likely just keep the Alfa and get a G80 after the market corrects itself way down the road.

I didn’t know QV wasn’t going to survive. I’ll have to Google that. If so then I might buy a used one instead of getting into a G80 M3. Value for the QV will be retained or go up considering its limited numbers and Ferrari engine. If anything then I’ll wait 2-3 years and lease a G80 M3 when deals are better.

[Nettles]

Originally Posted by reddemon73

All,

Thank you for your thoughtful inputs. I wonder how hard is it to maintain BSM car. I am anal when it comes to keeping my car clean and in perfect condition. Does the metallic in this car help with swirl marks and scratches?

Don’t do bsm if you’re anal. It’s not worth it.

[Macheins]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

I didn’t know QV wasn’t going to survive. I’ll have to Google that. If so then I might buy a used one instead of getting into a G80 M3. Value for the QV will be retained or go up considering its limited numbers and Ferrari engine. If anything then I’ll wait 2-3 years and lease a G80 M3 when deals are better.

The last time I did any homework on this, the 2022 Giulia QV will be a 100% carryover from 2021 with no changes. After 2022, there is a lot of uncertainty on what is actually going to happen.

The true future of Alfa Romeo's lineup is still unclear. IIRC, the new Stellantis CEO said he would give a lot of the struggling brands (Alfa considered one of them) 10 years to turn themselves around. There have been a lot of comments from the Stellantis and Alfa Romeo leadership about wanting to keep and build the brand as their top Italian luxury sports brand. The unknown part is just how in the hell they expect to do that in 10 years when they will be forced to use the new Stellantis EV platform.

What I mean by that is, anytime I google anything about this, all I keep finding is how Stellantis has this new STLA Large EV platform centralizing so many of their vehicles. Without knowing much about that platform or how Alfa can possibly retain its racing and sporty feel while being on the same platform as so many other non-sporty cars... my plan is to get a fully loaded last year model of their outgoing platform which is an absolute dream to drive.

Similar to my want for the G80, I consider the M3 and QV to be some of the last great ICE cars before we move into hybrid or total EV territory. I have nothing against hybrid or fully electric vehicles, but I do love a nice sounding engine note and the driving experience they offer. I fully expect my next new car after these will be fully EV and I also hope that in the years I own these cars, BWM, Alfa, and the rest have figured out how to bring the same driving dynamics of the ICE cars into the EV realm.

[Tyga11]

I don't think the Alfa looks aggressive enough. Just my opinion.

[superbrew]

Originally Posted by Nettles

Don’t do bsm if you’re anal. It’s not worth it.

Second this. It is as hard to keep up with as a normal black car. The metallic is subtle.

[GleanStrateShady]

Originally Posted by reddemon73

A few weekend ago, I decided to go test drive the new M3 since I always wanted an M3 but brought the 2020 QV instead because of the horrendous grill (never seen in real life).

The M3 in person not bad especially in Metallic black. Here is my impression between the two cars:

-I still like the QV exterior better than the M3
-M3 interior is much better looking
-M3 has more techies stuff
-QV engine sound much better. The downshift sound of the QV is intoxicating.
-QV drive much smoother in normal mode versus the M3
-M3 can be dial in much more than the QV. QV only has 4 driving mode.



I am able to trade in my QV at the same price I purchased it back in November 2020. The M3 will be sold at MSRP. That will be a difference of $14k extra. Would you pull the trigger?

The G80 M3 sold at MSRP is a lot. I’d keep the QV and wait for the LCI version.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by GleanStrateShady

The G80 M3 sold at MSRP is a lot. I’d keep the QV and wait for the LCI version.

Yep, that's what I would do...if I indeed felt compelled to move to the G8X. Enjoy the Alfa for a few more years, and then get the LCI G80 with the improvements and any new options.

[Gfit]

Except instead of paying $15k net for the M3 you will probably be paying a lot more. Once the market normalizes in a year or so the value of the Alfa will drop by at least $20k (I have one and selling it in next few weeks). Sure I am paying msrp for the M3 but I just couldn't pass up the big equity on my lease.

[Jacky Treehorn]

Keep the Alfa. I don't see them keeping this Giorgio QV platform much longer before they move to electric or something else and these will be hard to find in the coming years. The G80 has a few years to run. You're splitting hairs here between the two cars, they both perform largely the same with the G80 being the faster car by a margin. The Alfa makes up for that in other ways if you've driven both you know what I mean.


Finding a G80 right now was easy for me. Finding the right newer model QV was difficult...there was only like 1 or 2 in the entire country that had lower miles and the right color/wheels and there were other buyers I had to deal with to get the car. There were even more 992 cars out there on lots and used in my wheelhouse, but very few QVs that met my requirements.