BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
Technical Sections Suspension / Brakes / Chassis

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-13-2021, 05:11 PM   #1
AhsanU
i can haz horsepowr ??
AhsanU's Avatar
3789
Rep
1,916
Posts

Drives: inconspicuous white van
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Westchester, N.Y.

iTrader: (2)

H&R VTF HAS vs. MSS HAS vs. KW HAS?

One of the things I've been struggling the most about when it comes to modding my upcoming G80 M3 is the suspension and dropping the ride height. I decided on aftermarket wheels pretty quickly, but am struggling between lowering springs as there's a lot of information out there, but some of it conflicts with one another. Searching on these forums brings about a locked thread and another thread between MSS vs. KW, but nothing really definitive. And now, H&R has thrown their hat into the fray with the VTF kit.

I originally wanted to just get AST springs and call it a day because the stance on the AST's look amazing, but the fact that I may want to dial in the ride height perfectly because of aftermarket wheels was brought to my attention (thanks tom@eas). So I may as well pony up the extra $$ to get the perfect ride height on the aftermarket wheels.

So as the title suggests - what are the pros and cons of each HAS? I think it's tough to say that one is "best", but I like to imagine there's a specific best use case scenario for each one. I personally would prefer as comfortable of a ride as possible, with a standard "one finger" ride height. I'm constantly driving around NYC and these roads are not forgiving, so I'm trying to be cautious with what I'm doing with suspension/wheels. I've ordered a set of wheels that are 20's front and back (rather than 21's out back) and so the hunt for ideal springs is now in question.

WheelsBoutique had some issues with their MSS springs, but I haven't heard of any negatives with the KW HAS or the H&R VTF HAS. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions.
__________________
Dakar Yellow G80 M3
Ivory White Interior
@dakar.g80 #savethemanuals
Gone but not forgotten: 991.1 GT3, F80 M3 ZCP, E46 M3
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2021, 09:06 PM   #2
M3AWD
Lieutenant Colonel
M3AWD's Avatar
United_States
3178
Rep
1,902
Posts

Drives: 2022 G80 M3 AWD
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

I received my KW HAS kit and will get them installed on Tuesday. It was between KW and MSS but I didn't like that MSS required a "mod" otherwise the front doesn't drop enough. Also what I heard is that MSS takes hundreds of miles to settle. I don't think I've seen the H&R setup on a G8x on the forum yet.
__________________

2022 G80 M3 Comp M xDrive
Appreciate 2
Limegrntaln13015.50
mattssi867.00
      11-14-2021, 10:34 PM   #3
BIGW0RM
You got my money?
BIGW0RM's Avatar
No_Country
3010
Rep
4,593
Posts

Drives: Ice Cream Truck
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: ///OC

iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2022 BMW M3  [9.50]
I had excellent results with KW HAS on all my prior BMW's so I am going that route.

In the past H&R springs where rumored to be soft and or bouncy at high speeds. Ive heard from a vender here that MSS was difficult to work with. So hearing WB had issues with them and that they might require a special mod or something, makes me just not interested in MSS. KW HAS if you ask me.
__________________
2022 G80 M3 Competition X / 2020 Range Rover Sport P525 / 2023 Ford Raptor
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2021, 09:56 AM   #4
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
23785
Rep
190,128
Posts


Drives: 07-335/12-328/18-M4/21-M4CP
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (23)

Both are great options, we will be installing the MSS kit this week, we'll post a video soon showing how it looks. Maybe a small review, if we had time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AhsanU View Post
WheelsBoutique had some issues with their MSS springs, but I haven't heard of any negatives with the KW HAS or the H&R VTF HAS. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions.

No fitment problems with MSS, they do require a specific install procedure explained in the install guide. If the shop does not follow the install guide and tries to install the MSS kit as they install other brands, it won't work.
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/

Phone number 702-494-9435
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2021, 10:51 AM   #5
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Interesting supposition and facts here.... while my opine is not factual, my installs on two G80's are. Plus I dont have a chip in the game here from a retailer standpoint so take this with a grain of salt.

When I got my G80 RWD- there was no KW and it was delayed until Oct 21 or around there so in May I decided on MSS. Now I have KW on my F93 and have had double digit sets of their HAS setups so it is my go to and still will be when available. But the MSS has shocked me with the ride quality and the drop level Ive done. Its linear set up really does soak up the bumps and edges while keeping the car very planted at speed. There is no extra bounce in its step which Ive had with other standard springs. Because I have other cars I dont always drive the X drive but when I do I really forget its lowered.

I am very very happy with these springs and because of that, when I sold my RWD car in Sept, I just moved the same set over to my X drive.

Of course these are my thoughts but they arent what I read or heard but instead what I can type and state. There are quite a few others here that will say the same thing about MSS. Full honesty, if both the KW and MSS were available, I would have got the KW. Hows that for bias or lack of it

X Drive



RWD

__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 4
      11-15-2021, 12:29 PM   #6
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8056
Rep
18,786
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Another KW vote here. These are perfect for those wanting to dial in the exact drop without making the full commitment to coilovers.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2021, 01:57 PM   #7
LukeM15
Captain
LukeM15's Avatar
United_States
560
Rep
991
Posts

Drives: M3 G80 Comp Xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (4)

I’m out of the country but I have H&R has kit waiting to be installed on the 27th. I should have some feedback afterwards (I might be the first).
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2021, 11:17 AM   #8
ROBERT1183
Captain
ROBERT1183's Avatar
United_States
1569
Rep
989
Posts

Drives: 2021 BMW M3 DRAVIT GREY 6SPEED
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: ROCKAWAY NJ

iTrader: (0)

I'm leaning towards the KW has kit. I loved it on my F80. Rode just like stock minus the wheel gap. I've been waiting on the side lines waiting to see others installs before making a final decision. I did not want the front sitting high and the rear tucked. But after seeing a few where they raised the rear to match the front gap, turns out to be the perfect drop for me. I don't want the car slammed. I don't track the car so a full coil over is a bit over kill for me.
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2021, 07:36 PM   #9
AhsanU
i can haz horsepowr ??
AhsanU's Avatar
3789
Rep
1,916
Posts

Drives: inconspicuous white van
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Westchester, N.Y.

iTrader: (2)

I suppose another question is this: is there any reason why one would choose one brand over the other?

Also, my understanding is that the MSS requires a bit of driving to set in. Does the KW behave the same way? I’d want to go back to the shop that does the install after a little while to do an alignment, but I’d rather not also wait until it’s fully settled in either.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2021, 12:56 AM   #10
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8056
Rep
18,786
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AhsanU View Post
I suppose another question is this: is there any reason why one would choose one brand over the other?

Also, my understanding is that the MSS requires a bit of driving to set in. Does the KW behave the same way? I’d want to go back to the shop that does the install after a little while to do an alignment, but I’d rather not also wait until it’s fully settled in either.
I've never heard of springs requiring a break in period. We usually recommend waiting a week in case you change your mind and want a height adjustment - so this doesn't affect the final alignment. M3AWD touched on a major point in Post #2. MSS requires the front adjustment collars be removed to reduce the stack height to get an acceptable drop. This leaves you with no adjustment capabilities in the front, only the rear - essentially, you're getting half a HAS kit......and paying full price.

KW has close ties with BMW and is an official Motorsport Supplier. The KW HAS will give the lowered stance you're looking for while retaining all the HAS (Height Adjustable Sleeves) in both front and rear.

Later on down the road, we'll be seeing more sleeve kits from other manufacturers.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 5
      11-20-2021, 10:19 AM   #11
Rod_M3
Private
Rod_M3's Avatar
United_States
93
Rep
53
Posts

Drives: 2022 BMW M3
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Vic the spacers you have on, is it 15 MM all around ???



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Interesting supposition and facts here.... while my opine is not factual, my installs on two G80's are. Plus I dont have a chip in the game here from a retailer standpoint so take this with a grain of salt.

When I got my G80 RWD- there was no KW and it was delayed until Oct 21 or around there so in May I decided on MSS. Now I have KW on my F93 and have had double digit sets of their HAS setups so it is my go to and still will be when available. But the MSS has shocked me with the ride quality and the drop level Ive done. Its linear set up really does soak up the bumps and edges while keeping the car very planted at speed. There is no extra bounce in its step which Ive had with other standard springs. Because I have other cars I dont always drive the X drive but when I do I really forget its lowered.

I am very very happy with these springs and because of that, when I sold my RWD car in Sept, I just moved the same set over to my X drive.

Of course these are my thoughts but they arent what I read or heard but instead what I can type and state. There are quite a few others here that will say the same thing about MSS. Full honesty, if both the KW and MSS were available, I would have got the KW. Hows that for bias or lack of it

X Drive



RWD

Appreciate 0
      11-20-2021, 10:38 AM   #12
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod_M3 View Post
Vic the spacers you have on, is it 15 MM all around ???
yes sir
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2021, 10:48 AM   #13
Rod_M3
Private
Rod_M3's Avatar
United_States
93
Rep
53
Posts

Drives: 2022 BMW M3
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod_M3 View Post
Vic the spacers you have on, is it 15 MM all around ???
yes sir
Thanks vic . My car arrives next month can't wait . Thanks for sharing all your info about your build mane
__________________
RV
Appreciate 1
Vic5518965.50
      11-20-2021, 10:51 AM   #14
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod_M3 View Post
Thanks vic . My car arrives next month can't wait . Thanks for sharing all your info about your build mane
If you get the PS4's you will not rub on 15 square but you will rub up front in reverse on Pirellis (I did on my first G80) but you can just shave the internal fin (not visible) and that will be eliminated.

I actually have room for 18mm up front:

__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2021, 11:32 AM   #15
Rod_M3
Private
Rod_M3's Avatar
United_States
93
Rep
53
Posts

Drives: 2022 BMW M3
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod_M3 View Post
Thanks vic . My car arrives next month can't wait . Thanks for sharing all your info about your build mane
If you get the PS4's you will not rub on 15 square but you will rub up front in reverse on Pirellis (I did on my first G80) but you can just shave the internal fin (not visible) and that will be eliminated.

I actually have room for 18mm up front:

Thanks for the insider vic. Most like will have PS4. I can adjust the fender lining for the rubbing issues
__________________
RV
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2021, 01:07 PM   #16
Soylent
Major
Soylent's Avatar
955
Rep
1,064
Posts

Drives: 2021 M4C
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Another thing to think about. What is the suspension travel between the KW and MSS at full low? Will the KW bottom out more? I would assume so unless the spring is designed differently.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2021, 03:09 PM   #17
TrentMeister
Colonel
TrentMeister's Avatar
2845
Rep
2,066
Posts

Drives: g82 comp
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Dana Point

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod_M3 View Post
Thanks vic . My car arrives next month can't wait . Thanks for sharing all your info about your build mane
If you get the PS4's you will not rub on 15 square but you will rub up front in reverse on Pirellis (I did on my first G80) but you can just shave the internal fin (not visible) and that will be eliminated.

I actually have room for 18mm up front:

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0[/img]
What's it like driving around with that road razor?

Speed bumps are probably deadly
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2021, 10:20 AM   #18
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentMeister View Post
What's it like driving around with that road razor?

Speed bumps are probably deadly
Zero issues--- I know my roads and have owned and driven lower.

Of course a situational issue could occur with road debris etc but thats why I pay to play.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 3
      11-23-2021, 04:41 AM   #19
Daily_drivX5M
Certified
Daily_drivX5M's Avatar
No_Country
260
Rep
200
Posts

Drives: 2021 BMW F95 X5 M competition
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Midwest USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentMeister View Post
What's it like driving around with that road razor?

Speed bumps are probably deadly
Zero issues--- I know my roads and have owned and driven lower.

Of course a situational issue could occur with road debris etc but thats why I pay to play.
Ok I know this is a suspension thread but I love how that lip looks. I just ordered RSC cf lip and while it has the simple look I was going for, yours takes the cake imo. Which manufacturer and could you link? Also where's everyone getting those mesh front vent covers from and how involved is the install? Is it something my local reputable shop should be able
to do or should I seek out a bimmer specialist?
__________________
Drive and care for it with love
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2021, 08:46 AM   #20
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3EEE View Post
Ok I know this is a suspension thread but I love how that lip looks. I just ordered RSC cf lip and while it has the simple look I was going for, yours takes the cake imo. Which manufacturer and could you link? Also where's everyone getting those mesh front vent covers from and how involved is the install? Is it something my local reputable shop should be able
to do or should I seek out a bimmer specialist?
RW Carbon is where I got mine--

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1875416
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2021, 01:47 AM   #21
Telly9987
Just a guy with a heavy foot
Telly9987's Avatar
United_States
175
Rep
239
Posts

Drives: G80
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Have the MSS setup on my car. Installed it at the lowest setting in front was was very unsatisfied with the drop. Still massive tire to well clearance. Rear settles nicely and didn't require me to modify anything.

On the front, I installed as instructed, removed and reinstalled using OEM rubber stop as it gave more clearance, pulled off again and machined down the ride height adjuster ring to interlock and allowed me another 12mm of drop. Finally settled on the modified adjuster, with the OEM bumper lathed in half. Car has settled and its not awful. Its as code as I think ill be able to get until the V4's show up..... As is I had to trim the inner fender deflectors off the coolers.... Will be making a screen to cover them.

Currently on 20 front and rear BBS E89 3pc wheels.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2021, 10:39 AM   #22
tsixtial
Private First Class
247
Rep
158
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: May 2021
Location: So.Cal

iTrader: (0)

Go with the one that has the furthest drop range.. nice to have options .

I am lowered on AST with HRE's and do not like the stance (not low enough, since front fender gap.. i prefer tucked look). However, I always planned on going coilovers once JRZ, Ohlins or Motons release theirs.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:21 PM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST