[wasya152]

My CS lease will be up in about 6 months and trying to figure out if I should keep it or upgrade to the new one. I love my cs. From a sheer driving pleasure, it's amazing. I've put on 8000 miles on the car in 4 months. Hate that I'm putting on so many miles, but I just love driving this thing, especially pushing it and keeping it high revving. It's just sounds and feels so good. I've taken it to track as well as was really impressed how well it did. Have a few more events on schedule coming up.

Considering how I drive it, ( I drive like I stole it most of the time since I love, love, love how it sings close to the redline, it's just too addicting to not do so all the time), it's also my weekend toy so I mostly go on drives to enjoy driving not just to drive it a to b. The car makes long drives feels like short drives and just melts miles away. I'm wondering if the new one can deliver the same. I've swapped for the weekend a x3mc with my cousin and all though the car is an amazing everyday drive, I felt the auto tranny was lacking when you are pushing it hard. Up to 70-80% it's fine, but at full tilt, it was not that pleasurable and felt like it didn't shift as immediate and when I wanted like the Dct. There were a few times where I felt like I was clicking downshift a few times extra before getting the gear. Upshifts just happen, but lack drama. Where as with the CS, you are just waiting to hit that next gear and it's so satisfying to go to the next gear. It feels rewarding tonrev it up, slam a gear, and than do it all again. The x3m was fast, but I didn't get the same feeling of anticipation of going to the next gear. It's really fast and nice, but the car wasn't egging me on to push it like the CS. I mean, I just can't drive the Cs in comfort or D mode for more than like 5 min.

Looking for feedback from those that actually went from m3Cs or m4cs to g80 m3 and what you think. Any regrets? I know the g80 will be a better daily and all around, but I only care about the driving pleasure. It's not my daily so I'm not sure if that's that important. A lot of reviews mention that g80 m3 is better f80 m3, but the cs is just so special from my experience. I do really like how the g80 m3 looks so that's not an issue.

[bsmf8x]

Whoever has done this, not to hijack OP's thread but does the ZF feel like a downgrade from the M-DCT?

I don't give a shit about smooth shifting for a daily, unless you don't know how to modulate throttle that was not an issue on the DCT, I mean from a performance and sporty perspective.

[akkando]

It seems people who REALLY like the DCT do miss it in the s58 powered cars. People who never thought the DCT was a highlight of the previous two generations feel the zf8 is just as good or at least the difference doesn't matter to them.

I think the only way you'll know is with a test drive.

[wasya152]

Originally Posted by bsmf8x

Whoever has done this, not to hijack OP's thread but does the ZF feel like a downgrade from the M-DCT?

I don't give a shit about smooth shifting for a daily, unless you don't know how to modulate throttle that was not an issue on the DCT, I mean from a performance and sporty perspective.

Haven't driven the m3, but the x3m has the same tranny and it definitely feels like a downgrade from the performance standpoint to me. I think the Dct makes the m3 special where as the zf does not. Also, the recent review was similar where Randy complained about it also. Bmw clearly did it for the cost savings.

Plus the 8 speeds makes it feel like your shifting constantly and way too much. Added to the fact that the shifts are bland and it's just not rewarding.

[geddylee]

I think the 8 gears shouldn't matter since in S mode you should have 7, the same as the DCT. I think it's the firmness and smoothness of the shifts that make it feel less special personally.

[bsmf8x]

Originally Posted by geddylee

I think the 8 gears shouldn't matter since in S mode you should have 7, the same as the DCT. I think it's the firmness and smoothness of the shifts that make it feel less special personally.

Originally Posted by wasya152

Haven't driven the m3, but the x3m has the same tranny and it definitely feels like a downgrade from the performance standpoint to me. I think the Dct makes the m3 special where as the zf does not. Also, the recent review was similar where Randy complained about it also. Bmw clearly did it for the cost saving for.

Plus the 8 speeds makes it feel like your shifting constantly and way to much. Added to the fact that shifts are bland and it just not rewarding.

That's what I expected

I've heard of countless times of DCT's needing replacements under warranty (although generally reliable) versus never hearing a ZF need replacing. That may have something to do with it as well.

[wasya152]

Originally Posted by geddylee

I think the 8 gears shouldn't matter since in S mode you should have 7, the same as the DCT. I think it's the firmness and smoothness of the shifts that make it feel less special personally.

The gearing is definitely shorter. On the Dct shift point from 4-5 gear is 129 mph. On the zf, 4-5 is about 105-110. I'm generally using 3rd and 4th gears when doing spirited driving and sometimes 5 when conditions permit. But on the zf, your in 3,4,5 constantly for the same speed range. That's a lot more down and up shifts.

Jason also commended about Randy Post setting time in the m4 and here's what he said

"Hi, guys, Jason here. Whoa, lots of commentary. I'll quickly address a few questions:

Randy typically will only use automatic mode if the transmission is programmed well enough that it's in the right gear on its own. He did set the fast lap on the G80 M3C in auto + most aggressive mode because it was programmed well.

However, even if he manually called for downshifts with the paddle, which he did on the warmup laps, the transmission wouldn't give him the downshift"

[Scorp!on]

you want to hear my thoughts on the M3CS?

I never owned that car, but tested it not so long time ago.
The car is phenomenal !
If you are not an MT Guy and you want raw, sporty brutal experience keep your CS.
If you want a bloody fast car which can also be driven around very smoothly for daily usage get the new M3C.

And keep in mind: The M3CS (unlike the M4) has a limitation of 1200 worldwide.
This car will keep it's value if you don't fu** it up with plain stupid tunes.
keep it original, if tuning then BMW M Performance parts.

Get a decent nice daily instead (330i or something) and keep the CS as your fun ride.
Yes, the new M3C will normally outperform the old one that's for sure. But if you are one of the lucky ones to have gotten the CS for a cheap price then keep it.
IMO this will have somewhen the status of the E46 CSL.

Just my 2 cents (and I'm a G80 Owner).


I was very close to trade in my G80 for a 4'500km M3CS...but the penalty is way to high when jumping out of the lease now so it's a nono.
And the G80 is really fun, but I have the MT and the DCT from the F8X gen would be the only reason to switch to Automatic for me.

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by wasya152

Jason also commended about Randy Post setting time in the m4 and here's what he said

"Hi, guys, Jason here. Whoa, lots of commentary. I'll quickly address a few questions:

Randy typically will only use automatic mode if the transmission is programmed well enough that it's in the right gear on its own. He did set the fast lap on the G80 M3C in auto + most aggressive mode because it was programmed well.

However, even if he manually called for downshifts with the paddle, which he did on the warmup laps, the transmission wouldn't give him the downshift"

I read they didn't have the transmission in S3 mode when doing that test.

[MKParris]

I have tracked the X3M and the tranny felt like a snooze relative to DCT. I had it in S3 or whatever and it really wasnt engaging.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by MKParris

I have tracked the X3M and the tranny felt like a snooze relative to DCT. I had it in S3 or whatever and it really wasnt engaging.

BMW engineers,”the ZF is superior in every way to the DCT. This is an easy decision to put it in the new G80”

BMW enthusiasts, “I don’t think so Tim. What the hell to BMW engineers know?”

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Patton250

BMW engineers,"the ZF is superior in every way to the DCT. This is an easy decision to put it in the new G80"

BMW enthusiasts, "I don't think so Tim. What the hell to BMW engineers know?"

How could it be superior in every way when the ZF downshifts are not as quick as DCT?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by WWM3

How could it be superior in every way when the ZF downshifts are not as quick as DCT?

There’s a pretty good video of their engineers describing the difference between the two and why they choose the ZF. It beat out the DCT in the end in their eyes. I agree with them. In my personal opinion the DCT is fun for like 15 minutes. Then it sucks after that. I mean unless you’re only going to drive this car once in a while and only for fun than the DCT makes sense. Well actually it still doesn’t make sense over the ZF but you get my point. :-)

In the end of course it’s subjective. I would not have bought my G80 if it came with a DCT. I likely would’ve went with the E63 or M5.

[wasya152]

Bmw clearly chose zf tranny because it was cheaper and better for daily driving, not because it was better for performance. Just because engineers feed you marketing bs doesn't make it true. Driving both back to back, unless you use your car in d mode all the time, in which case, why even bother getting an M, it's clear which one is better. Also, if the zf was so much better, why does Porsche only use Pdk in their top cars. Literally, every single review so far has said that it's not as good as the Dct for engaging driving

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by wasya152

Bmw clearly chose zf tranny because it was cheaper and better for daily driving, not because it was better for performance. Just because engineers feed you marketing bs doesn't make it true. Driving both back to back, unless you use your car in d mode all the time, in which case, why even bother getting an M, it's clear which one is better. Also, if the zf was so much better, why does Porsche only use Pdk in their top cars. Literally, every single review so far has said that it's not as good as the Dct for engaging driving

Here's BMW M's explanation for moving away from DCT (starts at 4:25).

They acknowledge that ZF is slower and less sharp. I do strongly recommend test driving it. When it's in its most aggressive setting, it's far more abrupt than a standard automatic.

[wasya152]

@8:30 he talks about the tranny and how it ruins the experience. Most people don't buy these cars to drive in automatic mode. I've put on 9k miles in my CS in 5 months and can't honestly remember a time that I was in D3 mode.

[McLaren720s]

I'm coming from an M2C with DTC and, while I have not tracked my M4 yet, I recognize that the DCT in the M2C was more engaging and crisp. HOWEVER, I do not miss how jerky the DCT was in 1st and 2nd gear. Part of that might have also been the idiotic Sport Plus engine map tuning, but regardless, I really enjoy how seamless the ZF is (with a small fun kick in S3) even if it's not very exciting.
We'll see how it does on the track in a couple of weeks.

Personally, I still wish they would have kept the DCT, but this was clearly a cost/reliability/efficiency decision, regardless of what BMW claims. Another reason is that the DCT is incompatible with the upcoming xDrive, so instead of having to offer 3 types of transmissions for this platform (manual, ZF for xDrive and DCT for RWD Comp) they chose the cheapest and more effective alternative: manual for base and ZF for comp / Xdrive.

[PLF69]

Apparently BMW will have to reach up to 25% cost cutting of there build cost in the next years to stay competitive with other brands.

Investing 100's of million dollars to perfect a DCT transmission was clearly not the better move. I would guess for the time ZF as been making 8 speed trans, they are pretty much at there peak in terms of performance/reliability and Cost !

Porsche pursuid the perfection of the DCT but I bet it did have a cost throughout the years. What's good for them is they can recup some cost by using the tech in other brands like Audi and VW wich BMW can't really do.

I totally understand the decision and appreciate my ZF in the M340i for what it is just like I appreciated the DCT in the M2 but at no point did I try to pretend in my head that the DCT was a good daily trans or that the ZF is a fantastic track trans. I adjusted my expectations accordingly. If you pay XX amount more for a Porsche then I guess you can expect the trans to be top notch as they do pretend.

I see BMW's DCT as a relic of the the S65/S85 era, when motorsports division wasn't as watched by the accountants.

[Gfit]

Pretty sure the DCT isn't compatible with xdrive. That would end any decision making right there.

[blinkme323]

I went from a M3cs to an X3Mc and it's no comparison, the DCT outperforms in every way. That's not to say it's bad by any means, just boring.

[wasya152]

Originally Posted by Gfit

Pretty sure the DCT isn't compatible with xdrive. That would end any decision making right there.

Porsche has AWD and pdk and it works just fine.

[TrentMeister]

Idk my ZF I've noticed is getting better with miles.

And honestly anyone who says that there's no upshift kick hasn't driven one with intent.

As the miles go on it really seems like the downshifts are more solid feeling.

Like driveline components are breaking in and becoming one.