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      10-13-2020, 04:39 AM   #45
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You all have interesting calculations and confirm that the power to weight ratio is critical.
But the easy part in the equation is adding power: more and more and even more !!!
The hard part is keeping the weight low: it has huge implications on the driving feel, sizing of chassis elements (for example brake discs can be smaller) etc...
Is BMW simply going in the wrong direction ?
Cf Lotus' philosophy and Gordon Murray's latest supercar !
Even Chris Harris is trouncing Ferrari for this:

Even 100, 200 or even 500 extra horsepower on the M3/M4 will not change the laws of physics and its weight.
BMW: please refocus on the CSL concept - L is for Leicht ie Light...
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      10-13-2020, 02:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5ZRH View Post
You all have interesting calculations and confirm that the power to weight ratio is critical.
But the easy part in the equation is adding power: more and more and even more !!!
The hard part is keeping the weight low: it has huge implications on the driving feel, sizing of chassis elements (for example brake discs can be smaller) etc...
Is BMW simply going in the wrong direction ?
Cf Lotus' philosophy and Gordon Murray's latest supercar !
Even Chris Harris is trouncing Ferrari for this:

Even 100, 200 or even 500 extra horsepower on the M3/M4 will not change the laws of physics and its weight.
BMW: please refocus on the CSL concept - L is for Leicht ie Light...
Some of his complaints were around how it sends its power around too - he does make mention that if it was RWD only it might be better. The 812 Superfast is still my favourite Ferrari for that reason
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      10-21-2020, 06:25 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecemberStorm View Post
rewatched the carwow video and at 11:30 mark, Mat talked about 50-70mph time being 1 full second quicker than F8X, now that's a huge deal

I'm not sure what methodology that time is based off of, but I pulled up C&D tests for F82 ZCP and F82 CS, their 50-70 time are 2.9s and and 2.7s respectively... is this really gonna be 1s quicker than that still, that's Huracan Evo level in-gear shove
A full second faster in an all out 50-70mph (where optimal gear is used) is highly doubtful. BMW, in their specs, often publish in gear acceleration from a roll. I suspect that this is what Mat is referring to. Since the G8X 8AT has much shorter gearing than the F8X DCT (the G8X has 23% gearing advantage in 4th and a 20% advantage in 5th), it should be no surprise that the G8X will be a fair bit faster in 4th and 5th gear pulls than the F8X in the same gear:
  • G8X 8AT 2.6 / 3.4
  • F8X DCT 3.5 / 4.3

Now what is really interesting is comparing the 6MT in gear acceleration between the F8X and G8X, especially since they share the exact same gear ratios:
  • G8X 6MT 4.1 / 5.6
  • F8X 6MT 3.5 / 4.2
The G8X is significantly slower, likely from the increased lag and higher boost threshold of the S58 over the S55.
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 10-21-2020 at 05:42 PM..
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      10-21-2020, 02:00 PM   #48
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might as well buy an M5 if you're considering a 4wd m3
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      10-21-2020, 02:07 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
A full second faster in an all out 50-70mph (where optimal gear is used) is highly doubtful. BMW, in their specs, often publish in gear acceleration from a roll. I suspect that this is what Mat is referring to. Since the G8X 8AT has much shorter gearing than the F8X DCT, it should be expected that the G8X will be a fair bit faster in 4th and 5th gear pulls than the F8X in the same gear. See excerpt below from the F8X press release, although I have not found the equivalent in the G8X press release.
The international press releases have it

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ion-coup%C3%A9

6MT is 4.1 and 5.6 seconds in 4th and 5th
8AT is 2.6 and 3.4 seconds in 4th and 5th

But this is a BS comparison as the ratios for the cars are:

6MT is 4.082 and 3.462 for 4th and 5th
8AT is 5.425 and 4.141 for 4th and 5th

So 4th on the 6MT is still a bit longer than 5th on the 8AT!
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      10-21-2020, 05:04 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
The international press releases have it

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ion-coup%C3%A9

6MT is 4.1 and 5.6 seconds in 4th and 5th
8AT is 2.6 and 3.4 seconds in 4th and 5th

But this is a BS comparison as the ratios for the cars are:

6MT is 4.082 and 3.462 for 4th and 5th
8AT is 5.425 and 4.141 for 4th and 5th

So 4th on the 6MT is still a bit longer than 5th on the 8AT!
Thanks. Not sure how I missed that on the tech sheet. I edited my post to add the G8X data. What is quite staggering is how much slower the G8X 6MT is compared to the F8X 6MT on these metrics
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      10-25-2020, 12:00 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Thanks. Not sure how I missed that on the tech sheet. I edited my post to add the G8X data. What is quite staggering is how much slower the G8X 6MT is compared to the F8X 6MT on these metrics
it's such a disappointment they are holding back the 6mt
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      10-25-2020, 04:36 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Thanks. Not sure how I missed that on the tech sheet. I edited my post to add the G8X data. What is quite staggering is how much slower the G8X 6MT is compared to the F8X 6MT on these metrics
If they determine that 550nm is the most that they want in a 6MT (ignoring the F06/10/12/13 that had 680nm) for whatever reason I wish they had kept it at 550nm up to 6500rpm, that is 374kw which would then allow the motor to make 375kw from 6550rpm to 7200rpm or maybe even a bit higher to 7600rpm to match the S55.

If the 6MT had 550nm from 2650rpm to 6500rpm and 375kw from 6550rpm to 7600rpm it'd be an awesome setup.

If Prior release their front grill and a wagon comes out in manual I'll be getting it tuned just like that

Also did you see the power/torque curves on the spec sheets? The M3 one has the 6MT and the M4 one has the 8AT curve.
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      10-25-2020, 04:52 PM   #53
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What counts is really how fast they are in optimal gear otherwise get yourself a BEV. Data can be twisted around to show small or large margins for one or the other car. Until we have quarter mile time and trap speed plus comparable lap times the difference between the F8X and G8X is going to be misleading.
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      10-25-2020, 05:33 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
What counts is really how fast they are in optimal gear otherwise get yourself a BEV. Data can be twisted around to show small or large margins for one or the other car. Until we have quarter mile time and trap speed plus comparable lap times the difference between the F8X and G8X is going to be misleading.
In all out acceleration, the G8X 6MT will undoubtedly be faster than the F8X 6MT. The power-to-weight tells us that. However, what those 80-120km/h in gear numbers tell us is how how the 6MT S58 will feel tugging along on the DD. For the crowd that whined about how the S65 lacked low end, watch out...
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      10-25-2020, 06:43 PM   #55
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Brakes

So what is the deal with the back brakes on the new M3/M4? Are they not piston?
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      10-25-2020, 07:06 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Vinny's M4 View Post
So what is the deal with the back brakes on the new M3/M4? Are they not piston?
Say what ???
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