[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

The guy who just ran a 1:56.1 at Buttonwillow Raceway with a bone stock G82 on PS4Ss must have been unaware of the weight

Excuses will be made, but as this car begins to trounce everything, the detractors will just have to accept that its a performance marvel.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Excuses will be made, but as this car begins to trounce everything, the detractors will just have to accept that its a performance marvel.

If this thread is any measure I won’t be surprised to see moaning of loss of materials, components etc. long after the car has laid waste to any and every F8X performance metric.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

If this thread is any measure I won't be surprised to see moaning of loss of materials, components etc. long after the car has laid waste to any and every F8X performance metric.

Yeah, I'm fully expecting to hear ad nauseiem references to CF driveshafts that departed before the F8X was out of production. People were getting their CF driveshafts replaced with steel back in 2019. I did feel fortunate that my driveshaft was replaced with a CF driveshaft though.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yeah, I'm fully expecting to hear ad nauseiem references to CF driveshafts that departed before the F8X was out of production. People were getting their CF driveshafts replaced with steel back in 2019. I did feel fortunate that my driveshaft was replaced with a CF driveshaft though.

Mine is CF and I never noticed. It’s a driveshaft and does it’s job just like my steel shafts does I’m 100% sure I wouldn’t notice if someone swapped it for steel while I was sleeping. Don’t get any ideas...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

Mine is CF and I never noticed. It’s a driveshaft and does it job just my steel shafts does I’m 100% sure I wouldn’t notice if someone swapped it for steel while I was sleeping. Don’t get any ideas...

Lol! Agreed. I just think it's a talking point for talking heads.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Lol! Agreed. I just think it's a talking point for talking heads.

And that’s likely why it didn’t catch on. Not enough measurable or subjective advantage making it worthwhile.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Excuses will be made, but as this car begins to trounce everything, the detractors will just have to accept that its a performance marvel.

It does seem quite impressive indeed.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by solstice

The guy who just ran a 1:56.1 at Buttonwillow Raceway with a bone stock G82 on PS4Ss must have been unaware of the weight

Never understood this sort of justification... Just because it's pretty quick around a track doesn't mean you can't feel the weight. Camaro ZL1 1LE runs circles around most cars at almost any track but it's still a car that weighs 3900lbs and even the owners or pro drivers say you most definitely feel the weight (especially at places like Buttonwillow or Sonoma where the esses cause a lot of weight transfer).

I'm probably going to be labeled as "another hater" for saying these things but it is what it is. I really like this car and plan to add one to my stable as a family car in the near future. However, I'm still disappointed with the weight figure. For a car that never sees the track (which is the vast majority of them), it may not be a problem at all but I don't believe this much weight increase would be completely unnoticeable at the track (not to mention the increased cost of consumables such as tires and pads).

[solstice]

Originally Posted by M-Pilot

Never understood this sort of justification... Just because it's pretty quick around a track doesn't mean you can't feel the weight. Camaro ZL1 1LE runs circles around most cars at almost any track but it's still a car that weighs 3900lbs and even the owners or pro drivers say you most definitely feel the weight (especially at places like Buttonwillow or Sonoma where the esses cause a lot of weight transfer).

I'm probably going to be labeled as "another hater" for saying these things but it is what it is. I really like this car and plan to add one to my stable as a family car in the near future. However, I'm still disappointed with the weight figure. For a car that never sees the track (which is the vast majority of them), it may not be a problem at all but I don't believe this much weight increase would be completely unnoticeable at the track (not to mention the increased cost of consumables such as tires and pads).

It’s an important data point on the objective impact of the weight for those who track. The subjective part of ‘“feeling the weight” has promising data points as well with review comments that it feels lighter, way lighter than the predecessor. Being as fast it seems consumables will wear faster for the same brakes but it has upgraded brakes so the resulting wear pace remain to be seen. Will it be costlier, yeah likely but also faster.

Remember we saw some people here stating that it will not be much faster if any than the F8X due to the weight increase. Well, that seems to becoming debunked.

[heavyD^2]

Really the weight thing is all in your head. The direct competition from Alfa, Cadillac, MB, Audi are all just as heavy if not more heavy. Everyone says it doesn't feel as heavy when you drive it which is really all that matters. If that's the case then why fret over a paper specification? If you want a BMW that has a light curb weight on paper get a Supra but that car doesn't seem to handle or drive any better than the G8x but that part of your brain that values paper specifications over driving feel will at least be satisfied.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by solstice

It’s an important data point on the objective impact of the weight for those who track. The subjective part of ‘“feeling the weight” has promising data points as well with review comments that it feels lighter, way lighter than the predecessor. Being as fast it seems consumables will wear faster for the same brakes but it has upgraded brakes so the resulting wear pace remain to be seen. Will it be costlier, yeah likely but also faster.

Remember we saw some people here stating that it will not be much faster if any than the F8X due to the weight increase. Well, that seems to becoming debunked.

I really hope that feedback from the reviewers are indeed accurate. If I remember correctly, when F80/F82 first released, it initially received stellar reviews but a year or two later, a lot of criticism started to surface (when most reviewers compared it to others models such as OG M2 or other brands). Anyways, my point is hopefully they indeed did a great job of hiding the weight and we don't see a change of tone in the reviews in a year or so. Still looking forward to the day I can experience one at the track and see how it feels (hopefully in Thermal when they replace the F8x with G8x).

Speaking of "feeling the weight", this Auto Express track battle also emphasizes how light the G80 feels. However, I'm still in shock how on earth the Alfa weighs 1620kg (3564lbs) and G80 weighs 1805kg (3971lbs). Hope it includes the driver but it would make Alfa's weight even more impressive.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am not an expert, only a technical geek, but IMO it is because they made it a an overall key design criteria. It is the cumulation of a concerted effort to keep weight down on the F82 on many components that yielded the lower weight over the F32. Meaning that the few kilos of the strut brace gets added to all the grams and kilos saved elsewhere. There was also effort to reduce the weight of the "added" components as much as possible.

Just to name a few items from the top of my head (F82 vs F32)

• CF roof
• CF driveshaft
• Lightweight wheels
• Lightweight structural/reenforcing elements (CF and aluminum)
• Roof CF bow tie
• Composite trunk lid
• Aluminum hood and fenders
• Aluminum suspension components
• Scalloped wheel hubs
• Bespoke aluminum rear subframe
• Aluminum dampers
• Li-ion battery

Sadly, some of those items were removed during the F8X lifecycle (CFRP driveshaft and Mg oil pan for example) and we did see the weight creep up slightly. Thankfully, they were maintained for the M4cs.

Disclaimer to the fanboys: I am not praising/defending the F8X here, just answering a question.

Thanks for posting that list. Do we know if BMW took the same approach to the G82 trunk lid as they did the F82?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

It's an important data point on the objective impact of the weight for those who track. The subjective part of '"feeling the weight" has promising data points as well with review comments that it feels lighter, way lighter than the predecessor. Being as fast it seems consumables will wear faster for the same brakes but it has upgraded brakes so the resulting wear pace remain to be seen. Will it be costlier, yeah likely but also faster.

Remember we saw some people here stating that it will not be much faster if any than the F8X due to the weight increase. Well, that seems to becoming debunked.

Your last statement is exactly it. Now that it's proving to be significantly more potent, the goal posts are being moved.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Really the weight thing is all in your head. The direct competition from Alfa, Cadillac, MB, Audi are all just as heavy if not more heavy. Everyone says it doesn't feel as heavy when you drive it which is really all that matters. If that's the case then why fret over a paper specification? If you want a BMW that has a light curb weight on paper get a Supra but that car doesn't seem to handle or drive any better than the G8x but that part of your brain that values paper specifications over driving feel will at least be satisfied.

Umm... no, it really isn't. Nobody is talking about the paper spec. I'm referring to the actual feel of a car and I even gave a specific example of what I was referring to. You can try to hide the weight by stiffening the chassis and throwing more HP at the car but at the end of the day extra 250-300lbs is not something you can simply ignore (especially when some of it is coming as an unsprung weight increase). As I said above, I'm looking forward to the day I will get to push one on the track.

Also, thanks for recommending the Supra but I already have a much lighter car that suits what I'm looking for. I still think many people miss the point of my earlier post including you. Nobody is expecting a 3300-3400lbs G80 from BMW knowing the base car (G20) already grew in size and regulations continuously getting more strict. Maybe they are saving it for a future model but I personally expected them to keep the weight between the 3600-3700 range. Given how much they improved the chassis, traction control, engine etc, wouldn't it make one hell of a car if they kept the weight around 3650lbs instead of 3850-3900lbs? G80 is still a great car in its current shape and form but I don't think this is asking for too much. And I'm saying this as an ex F82 and F87 owner who thinks those cars weren't "light" by any means to begin with.

[EXE46]

Why is it so critical that this car gets rave reviews all the time? It's your money, your impression is what matters in the end. If you test drive it and like it buy it. Why do you want to sit and wait for a year to see how others review the car before you make a decision? This is quite absurd, look I watch these vids for mostly entertainment, if I test drive and like it I will most definitely get one regardless of what some random person says about the car. 20 years ago you'd never hear this BS.

People say OMG CH didn't have an orgasm driving it so I am out but ultimately in the end none of that matters because your taste and his may not align. Where you moan and cry about harshness he may deem not firm enough. In addition, he may not use the car in the same manner you do. You track 3 times a year, maybe he does 3 times a month and all that factor in how CH or anyone else will perceived the car. People are relying too much on a professional reviewer's input on a car they may own to influence their purchase. The whole purpose of these reviewers is to at least get you in the showroom to take a look and test drive to see if the car is for you.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Excuses will be made, but as this car begins to trounce everything, the detractors will just have to accept that its a performance marvel.

I hear that the first 100 owners in the US will get a free mini-altar to worship it on. And every altar offering will come with a free extra post on the forum.

Make sure to get yours.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

The steel driveshaft was introduced on my2020 and the M4CS in Europe has never been sold as my2020 (production starting from 07-2019). That's why we never had an M4CS with steel driveshaft.

Are you sure about those dates? Because BMW ETK shows the CF driveshaft superseded by the steel driveshaft starting May-2018 production.

But anyhow, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Are you sure about those dates? Because BMW ETK shows the CF driveshaft superseded by the steel driveshaft starting May-2018 production.

But anyhow, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I think the 2018 date sounds more realistic because people were having theirs swapped in 2019.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Why is it so critical that this car gets rave reviews all the time? It's your money, your impression is what matters in the end. If you test drive it and like it buy it. Why do you want to sit and wait for a year to see how others review the car before you make a decision? This is quite absurd, look I watch these vids for mostly entertainment, if I test drive and like it I will most definitely get one regardless of what some random person says about the car. 20 years ago you'd never hear this BS.

People say OMG CH didn't have an orgasm driving it so I am out but ultimately in the end none of that matters because your taste and his may not align. Where you moan and cry about harshness he may deem not firm enough. In addition, he may not use the car in the same manner you do. You track 3 times a year, maybe he does 3 times a month and all that factor in how CH or anyone else will perceived the car. People are relying too much on a professional reviewer's input on a car they may own to influence their purchase. The whole purpose of these reviewers is to at least get you in the showroom to take a look and test drive to see if the car is for you.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my post... I'm not the one who brought the reviews into the discussion. It was other members saying all reviews highly praise the G8x for how light it feels. I, personally, couldn't care less what reviewers are saying (including CH) since at the end of the day it's all about how I feel when I drive the car. I mentioned the reviewers as reply to those posts and said hopefully what they are stating is indeed accurate and they don't all of a sudden change the tone of their review after some time like they did with the previous gen. In other words, I never did and will not make my decision based on a journalist review. In fact, it's not a matter of whether I will like it or not either. I already really like this car but am just disappointed that the weight had to increase 200+ lbs. I don't understand why everyone is getting so defensive. Do we really have to pick a side and make only positive or negative comments on this car? Just because I like it so much so that I'm going to buy one doesn't mean I should avoid stating my concerns about it. I will say it one last time... Even though I'm looking forward to getting into a G80 (or G81 but most likely not happening) at some point, I'm still concerned about the added weight and how much of it can be noticed on a road course (and for that, I'm relying on no one's but my own judgment).

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M-Pilot

I really hope that feedback from the reviewers are indeed accurate. If I remember correctly, when F80/F82 first released, it initially received stellar reviews but a year or two later, a lot of criticism started to surface (when most reviewers compared it to others models such as OG M2 or other brands).

I actually recall it the other way around, where the F8X received very lukewarm reviews at launch, mainly from the UK and US press. As time went on, it starting winning more and more comparative reviews when the car was put on track. There's a whole compilation thread on F8X comparative reviews.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by adc

I hear that the first 100 owners in the US will get a free mini-altar to worship it on. And every altar offering will come with a free extra post on the forum.

Make sure to get yours.

Gotta love the passive aggression. Keep it coming. It's fun.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Why is it so critical that this car gets rave reviews all the time? It's your money, your impression is what matters in the end. If you test drive it and like it buy it. Why do you want to sit and wait for a year to see how others review the car before you make a decision? This is quite absurd, look I watch these vids for mostly entertainment, if I test drive and like it I will most definitely get one regardless of what some random person says about the car. 20 years ago you'd never hear this BS.

People say OMG CH didn't have an orgasm driving it so I am out but ultimately in the end none of that matters because your taste and his may not align. Where you moan and cry about harshness he may deem not firm enough. In addition, he may not use the car in the same manner you do. You track 3 times a year, maybe he does 3 times a month and all that factor in how CH or anyone else will perceived the car. People are relying too much on a professional reviewer's input on a car they may own to influence their purchase. The whole purpose of these reviewers is to at least get you in the showroom to take a look and test drive to see if the car is for you.

This. Everyone is different and you can get 10 different reviews from 10 different reviewers.

I'll also add that the car will be what it is. Even here on one side you got guys complaining this is akin to a half-ton pickup truck and the other is saying stuff like it feels much lighter than prior generations... neither perspectives take into account reality and basic physics. The car is clearly 38XXlbs w/ at least 1/2 tank, is physically bigger than prior generations, has impressive power/weight, a wider front track w/ more camber, a much improved traction control system, and seemingly better damping. It will drive as such. We all just gotta go in and drive the thing and figure out if those character traits are right for us, and if they're not, then we still have 6 other generations of M3 that might tickle the pickle.