[BimmerMat135]

The M3 always seem to follow the M5 pattern. F10 got turbo so did the F80. Then there was the AWD in the F90 so did the G80.

Next M5 is phev so i guess we have our answer.

[ellipsis212]

Originally Posted by Jekkameister

If they decide to go electric, they will notice a steep drop off in sales and the increase in older combustion engine prices. You buy an M3 for the power, the looks, the sounds! Just because it’s electric and “the cool new thing” doesn’t mean that it’s actually a step forward. And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars

EVs are not the cool new thing. It’s where all vehicles are eventually going unless you’re not clear on the dino juice situation. I love my ICE M3 but that era is wrapping up now and the question is whether this next gen will be the last ICE/hybrid version or the first all electric version.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Jekkameister

If they decide to go electric, they will notice a steep drop off in sales and the increase in older combustion engine prices. You buy an M3 for the power, the looks, the sounds! Just because it’s electric and “the cool new thing” doesn’t mean that it’s actually a step forward. And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars

The sounds!?!? That is a sentence I thought I would never read. You buy a GT3 for sound. I get it, everyone likes something different but man these last few M3/4’s have been ear bleeding bad.

[Jekkameister]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

You basically posted a bunch of FUD

Fear… Uncertainty… Doubt

I do see your point. But take it from my perspective as a consumer, which is just as valid as anybody else’s opinion because I am a paying customer. I, nor do most people in my circle, believe in electric. Most car guys I know look down on electric for the questions it poses for the future. A big hurdle for any manufacturer to surpass is a very reasonable “fear”: and that is longevity. It’s not up for debate that batteries lose power and capacity over time, especially in a temperate climate where you see fluctuations from -10 C to +35 in the summer. Why would I commit to making such a large purchase when I know in 5 years time I could be stuck with a car that is simply not as capable as what it was when it was new?

[Jekkameister]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

The sounds!?!? That is a sentence I thought I would never read. You buy a GT3 for sound. I get it, everyone likes something different but man these last few M3/4’s have been ear bleeding bad.

Stock, certainly. And if we all had the same opinion, then the word “taste” would have no meaning. I like the sound. I like the rumble and growl of the combustion engine, even if it’s not your personal preference. And I can always opt to upgrade the exhaust system down the line, which is something I can never do in an electric car

[harperium]

Originally Posted by ghaffari46

The International Energy Agency expects over 14 million EVs to be sold globally in 2023, which would account for about 18 percent of total car sales.

Battery supply constraints: driving down the supply, driving up the price. Elec. grid issues. Lack of infra... BEV is the wrong choice for decarbonization; mild and plug-in hybrids are much smarter use of materials. The growth in BEV is not sustainable for much longer.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by ellipsis212

It’s where all vehicles are eventually going unless you’re not clear on the dino juice situation. I love my ICE M3 but that era is wrapping up now and the question is whether this next gen will be the last ICE/hybrid version or the first all electric version.

Decarbonization doesn't have to be BEV. Carbon-neutral "gasoline". Hydrogen ICE + fuel cell - these are all much better solutions long-term. BEV simply doesn't scale. You think the 3rd world nations are going to driving BEVs anytime soon?

You can't take today's BEV sales growth rates and just continue them into the future because of the supply constraints, pricing pressures, geopolitical issues, and so forth. The rarity and cost of batteries will remain high.

The days of gasoline may be numbered, but not the days of ICE.

[Fugly M3]

I think there's a backlash of sorts brewing against the EV push in general. We're starting to see it in the sales numbers. It's not that people are against EVs. I shopped them for the last 4 car purchases. I just couldn't justify one because it didn't work for me and I suspect they just don't work for most people. They need to be able to go 4-500 real miles (hot/cold/85 mph) and be chargeable on any corner, without wait, in 5 minutes. Until then, it's a second or third car for the vast majority of buyers. I won't even go into how utterly useless they are for people like me who do occasionally need to tow things.

As to M, I think the hybrid is the most likely. Relatively good-sized markets like the UK have outright banned conventional setups by 2030, so that alone is a reason for the hybrid (which can be sold there until 2035). Ultimately, I don't think the stick will survive this generation, and I'll probably plan to order a final model year M3. There will be groups of people (me included) who will say the real M3 dies when the stick version of it dies.

I do think, as this shift is pushed upon the public, prices of traditional vehicles will climb and stay buoyed for a good while until the critical mass of people who don't want electric starts to decline.

[playswcars]

Nuclear powered M3 when?

[ghaffari46]

100 years ago people would have thought the same for ice cars, and gas stations poped up on any corner in a matter of years, electrical charges stations are much easier to build these days, and in reality, the last time I used supercharger was 3 months ago on my way to DC. And I’m using only regular 110 charging in my garage (too lazy to install 220!) and it’s more than enough for my 40 miles daily commute.
Yeah infrastructure needs to be improved, but we captured the moon, didn’t we?

[IDKBRO]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

You basically posted a bunch of FUD

Fear… Uncertainty… Doubt

Calm down captain , this ain’t crypto

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by OC-M3CX

Hate to say it but electric is the future. The tech may not be there yet but it will be. Battery tech is only going to get better. Maybe not in the next gen but certainly after. People said they wouldn’t buy the G8xs because of the grille, how it’s a disgrace to BMW but turns out it’s not that bad.

Electric is a big part of the future. But I can't see us going all EV as fast as some politicians would like us too.

I've been an EV fan and following the market really since the i3. Owned two Teslas, came close to buying a Taycan instead of my G80 on order, and still follow the EV space closely.

Now that EV's are more mainstream and there is a big push, some REAL headwinds, not political, made-up FUD, are starting to emerge. Like actual issues with constructing electrical infrastructure, where people in multifamily housing charge, overall high cost of EV's, fighting public perception of those who don't want to be first adopters, etc.

I think there is going to be a bit of a course correction here. EV's will continue to gain market share, but I think the automakers are going to start backtracking a bit on ICE. I think you'll start to see more hybrids, and more alternatives like bio / e-fuels, hydrogen burning ICE, hydrogen fuel cells, etc.

BEV works GREAT for short trips where you have a fixed location to plug. And by short I mean any daily commute short of the road trip. I used to daily my Tesla between 90 and 150 miles a day, just in the City of Houston jursdiction. Charged at home and ZERO effort. Was wonderful to not have to fill up every 2-4 days like I did in the GTI that I replaced. And I road tripped that car to Dallas and Austin and San Antonio regularly with minimal fuss. But I'm a perfect use case. Relatively tethered to a fixed location where I have Level 2 charging. Have a second ICE vehicle for road trips. Don't mind being an early adopter and willing to do math to figure out the new nomenclature of owning an EV. But I recognize I do not represent the entirety of the motoring population. Especially, ESPECIALLY on the last part. EV's are not hard at all to live with....if you're intelligent and willing to do some simple math and learn. It's pretty easy to do once you've learned it all. But there IS a learning curve and not everyone is willing to do work to drive a car.

Imagine that you were to get in a car today that got between 90 and 110 MPG and had a 3-4 gallon gas tank. That's what you're driving. you tow, you hit a headwind, you run the heater or A/C excessively and you'll go down to maybe 75 MPG. That seems like it's still really good....but remember your tank is tiny. So you've now seriously cut into your range!

In any event, the future is always murky. No difference here.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by IDKBRO

Calm down captain , this ain’t crypto

The FUD term was popularized in the EV circles WAY before Crypto was even a thing.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Jekkameister

If they decide to go electric, they will notice a steep drop off in sales and the increase in older combustion engine prices. You buy an M3 for the power, the looks, the sounds! Just because it’s electric and “the cool new thing” doesn’t mean that it’s actually a step forward. And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars

Fake news. Batteries don’t significantly degrade within 5 years. Not even within 10 years. Porsche has shown in the Taycan - particularly the Taycan S, that a high-performance EV is more than possible.
Really, EVs aren’t the “new cool thing”, they are a quantum leap forward. For example, the Volvo EX30, a small soccer mom mobile that starts at $35k will go 0-60 as fast as a current gen M3. Sorry but the writing is on the wall. Very soon the only advantage ICE vehicles will have is their soundtrack.

[JMD]

They may as well take the i5 route and give the public options for ICE only,...PHEV,...or BEV! Given the adoption of the NACS charge port by many EV manufacturers,...which allows for BEV owners to charge at Tesla charging stations,...the next 12-24 months will be the tipping of the scale if you asked me! For instant,...I've already added a PHEV to my driveway,...the X5 45e! The only things that make the X4 45e a Full-On Total Ballistic Game Changer are "No Fast Charging" and its "Low Battery Capacity"!

The competition will help BMW M guys decide what's next for the M3/M4! I guarantee it does...

[mathys]

I hate my Taycan and looking to trade it for a proper M.

EV might be part of the future , but not THE future.

[Theruleslawyer]

I buy performance cars based on emotion. I have a hard time seeing how BMW is going to replace that with a BEV. I'm sure they can make a faster car. That's not the point. TBH one could argue cars are too fast. They scare hpde instructors. You can't use it on the street. More and more I want something I can push and feels good.

In the end it will be regulators that decide. If the EU makes it impossible to make a good ICE car they will move on. I have a feeling people are going to be hanging on to old cars a long time while the figure out how to give a BEV a soul.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

It's worse than that. It's downright false. This quote:

" And what about 5 years down the line, when your battery capacity shrinks to a fraction of what it used to be new? Range decreases, power decreases, and nobody wants to deal with -electrical- issues- which is 90% of what happens with -electric- cars"

Is utterly, utterly false.

First of all, 'shrinks to a fraction' is completely false. Like patently so. There are hundreds of thousands of EV's on the road, so there is very reliable data. This loss in capacity simply doesn't happen with modern batteries.

Second...'electrical issues'? Yeah, you have some. But what about...


Rod bearings
Spun Crank Hubs
HPFP's crapping out
Carbon build up on DI engines
Batteries dying due to on-demand alternators
VANOS actuators
Self-destructing cooling systems


And on and on. There are way, WAY more things that can (and have!) gone wrong with BMW Turbo engines. Like..way more.

I'm a former EV owner and a fan. What I can tell you is that there ARE real issues to mass EV adoption. Like, where you charge if you don't live in a single family house. How do you balance emotion with performance. Where do we get all the raw materials to make all these batteries. How good is it if you regularly tow or do hundreds of miles a day on a consistent basis. Etc.

But "loss of capacity" and "electrical issues" are completely solved at this point.

I would disagree, and I’m holding the answer in my hand. My iPhone’s battery doesn’t hold 100% of its charge after 2 years, and it faces much less stress than a car battery would.

Electric cars aren’t perfect, and the demand isn’t there right now, given the nearly 90-day overstock on auto lots across the country. Given their limitations - using it as an actual car - they aren’t on par with ICE cars yet.

Not sure what happens when these cars start to age, and you’re purchasing an i4 with 89% charge capacity. Will the price reflect that? Replacing the pack would defeat the point of a green electric car, since they are so demanding to produce. I suppose we’ll see.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The issue with these conversations is people are always arguing from a position that the premise of the problem is true. If people REALLY cared about saving the environment, the fist they they would attack is consumerist culture. Instead, we are telling you to “save” the world by buying new stuff.

I agree 100% with this part. Actually more like 1000%. We'd make a huge impact by not throwing crap away and going after gross polluters like container ships and industries that are barely regulated, instead of ekeing out tiny gains at the cost of consumers. And ICE has been turned into such a stigma that people look at classic, non-emissions cars like the devil, but the reality is that if you drive that car less than 1,000 miles / year your pollution is completely negligible.

As for the first part of your statement, well, that's the good thing about science. It doesn't care whether you believe it or not.

[NotSharocks]

Manual, not fugly, doesn't weigh as much as a baby blue whale, iDrive delete would be ideal, this one is a longshot but sounding good is also preferred.

Take my money.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by harperium

Battery supply constraints: driving down the supply, driving up the price. Elec. grid issues. Lack of infra... BEV is the wrong choice for decarbonization; mild and plug-in hybrids are much smarter use of materials. The growth in BEV is not sustainable for much longer.

It's not the wrong choice. As you said in your subsequent post, it just can't be the ONLY choice.

The growth in BEV is sustainable for now because we're nowhere near the tipping point on the issues which you pointed out. Which are real issues for sure. We just haven't gotten there yet. But we will, soon.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

Manual, not fugly, doesn't weigh as much as a baby blue whale, iDrive delete would be ideal, this one is a longshot but sounding good is also preferred.

Take my money.

Here you go:

https://www.autotempest.com/results?...ansmission=man