[PLF69]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Is there any indication that BMW may set an EOP for the base 6MT meaningfully earlier than the rest of the range?

Did not see anything indicating this.

On Autotrader Canada there's around 33 G80/2 for sale and around 11 are 6MT. Here it's more BMW AG who decide what we get, in the USA BMW North America as a lot more leeway so it's possible they push more for the auto.

Anyways with the lunch of the AWD I guess the Auto ratio will just rise even more. I don't think making the base 6mt only is doing it any favor. You really feel the design of the car was made around the Auto and mininlmal investment was done to offer a Manual, pretty much like all there models nowadays. It is a drying breed but let's cross fingers it makes it trough all the production run.

Best thing we can do to help is buy them all.

[2011ninja]

It's difficult to get the same times with same car lap after lap.

[vetteflier]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Gotcha. I think this kind of powerband makes sense for the 6MT since the goal is to have fun managing the power with the gears.

I still don't quite understand the "flat zone" you're talking about from 3000-6000; yes, the torque curve is exceptionally flat, and that means power (what you actually feel and what actually delivers the performance) is increasing almost perfectly linearly through this range. This behavior is typically reserved for well-engineered NA cars and is generally considered ideal, especially for motorsport use cases. The only "spike" in the G8x powerband is when you hit that long, wide torque "plateau" at 3000RPM.

To me, an actual "flat zone" is a range where HP (power) is constant as revs rise due to falling torque, like you generally experience going to redline with older turbo engines (which, to some extent, includes the S55). In this "flat zone", there's a sensation that there's little reward for continually revving out and you feel like short-shifting. There is no part of the G8x's power delivery that feels like this. Going all the way to 7200RPM feels fantastic.

My guess is you like the additional excitement of a torque curve that rises with revs, which is actually suboptimal if you were to compare two cars with similar peak torque numbers since your peaky car will have less area under its power curve, and thus less overall performance. It's also a deceptive feeling, as you're feeling a "torqueless wonder" become competent as the revs rise, while an engine like the S58 reaches competency much earlier and stays there the whole time.

You hit it on the head MAX torque comes in at 2700 rpm and stays flat while HP builds. Having driven 5.7 to 6.2 NA engines in F-bodies and Corvettes for decades, it is completely different than the angled torque curve of those cars. In my M-4 Comp, the torque hits you in the head at 2700 rpm--and stays there. In NA V8s, it builds in a progressive manner. Off the line, there is lag, which even the Turbo S has. If you don't want it, use launch control--in second, or simply brake-torque to 25-2600 rpms to launch in first. In a NA V8, you always brake torque to get the fastest 1/4 anyway. To call max torque available from 2700 to ~ 6500 a "flat zone" is missing the point completely. The MTs have much higher--and fewer gears than the ZF-8. Even the best stick man will never match a good AT or DCT in 0 to whatever. Every time you (not power) shift, revs drop. Those tenths of a second add up when you do it 3-4 times in a 1/4. In the old days, 4 speeds were quicker due to driveline loss. Those days are long gone. And the torque difference between the Comp and regular M with MT is significant. Even if they put a MT in the Comp, the AT will beat it every time.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Giving a haircut from 650Nm to 550Nm is probably not improving fuel efficiency. What he said is that two drivers driving the same MT car will have a very different consumption an emission even at equal acceleration and speed. When you put these two in the same AT, their consumption will be very near.

The torque cut in the MT is pretty certain to reduce the risk for severe transmission damage and longetivity. The F10 M5 also had a MT version, but M had to detune the engine in 1st and 2nd gear for the same reasons.

I understand the MT torque limit is 580Nm for the required service life, which may be the reason for the haircut to 550Nm for the base model.

[vampire81]

reading this thread makes me miss the manual

[MKParris]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

You hit it on the head MAX torque comes in at 2700 rpm and stays flat while HP builds. Having driven 5.7 to 6.2 NA engines in F-bodies and Corvettes for decades, it is completely different than the angled torque curve of those cars. In my M-4 Comp, the torque hits you in the head at 2700 rpm--and stays there. In NA V8s, it builds in a progressive manner. Off the line, there is lag, which even the Turbo S has. If you don't want it, use launch control--in second, or simply brake-torque to 25-2600 rpms to launch in first. In a NA V8, you always brake torque to get the fastest 1/4 anyway. To call max torque available from 2700 to ~ 6500 a "flat zone" is missing the point completely. The MTs have much higher--and fewer gears than the ZF-8. Even the best stick man will never match a good AT or DCT in 0 to whatever. Every time you (not power) shift, revs drop. Those tenths of a second add up when you do it 3-4 times in a 1/4. In the old days, 4 speeds were quicker due to driveline loss. Those days are long gone. And the torque difference between the Comp and regular M with MT is significant. Even if they put a MT in the Comp, the AT will beat it every time.

Good post but wrong m2c my beats duct in 0-60.

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by MKParris

Good post but wrong m2c my beats duct in 0-60.

Show me your draggy's

[vetteflier]

Originally Posted by MKParris

Good post but wrong m2c my beats duct in 0-60.

"Duct"?

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

"Duct"?

Thinking it's an autocorrect from DCT.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Thinking it's an autocorrect from DCT.

Or duck? The duck is his copilot? Nothing wrong with that...

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by akkando

I'm more interested in the subjective feel of power difference than the actual by the numbers power differences.

It sounds like you would be in favor of an Active Sound mod that even further increases a psychological increase in feel of performance. Maybe even a rumble seat mod?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Hachima

It sounds like you would be in favor of an Active Sound mod that even further increases a psychological increase in feel of performance. Maybe even a rumble seat mod?

Or maybe an exhaust?