[Pantagathus]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Hi! Do you know what speed the car is going at the top of first, and at the top of second?

I'm still in break-in so haven't pushed to the redline, I've been trying very hard to stay well under 5k

[lch6257]

Originally Posted by Pantagathus

I'm still in break-in so haven't pushed to the redline, I've been trying very hard to stay well under 5k

First gear does feel to tall which is kinda expected, but once you hit second it's a rocket ship all the way to the top of sixth. It's an absolute blast to drive when you ask it to be....which imho, is what makes it an M3. I love how different the car feels with the touch of a properly configured button. Grocery hauler turns into track machine in a second and pulling through those gears never gets old! Manual all the way!! Good luck finding one...talked to my CA today and he said they only have one allocation as of now....ordering is about the only way to get one.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by calibro9

3rd pedal 4Life....

Depends on how many years you still deem to be alive?

MT and EV are totally incompatible and all MT are perishing like last snowflakes in the sun for emission control, Euro 7 terminates it.

[filostrato]

I haven't had a chance to drive the ZF auto yet, but I can echo the comments that with the 6MT the torque curve of the S58 is much gentler on the low end than I was expecting. It actually makes the car very comfortable around town and suits the character of the car well.

But as soon as you hit a nice stretch of road, one downshift turns it into an absolute beast

I've always enjoyed the anticipation of a well selected gear change and throttle input more than just matting the throttle and hoping the auto picks the right gear in time. So yes, the auto will be "faster" but less engaging for some.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by KoenG

You refer to the lack of low down torque?

Not exactly.
This engine is dead below 3000 rpm (both automatic and manual), and this is nothing new. After that, the boost comes but the power delivery is very flat, dull, boring, no kick in the seat, you feel that the engine could do a lot more but is limited. You can downshift but the engine still works on the same flat range of torque, almost nothing changes. And no, it's nothing remotely close to an NA engine, it's just boring, you don't feel the kick of a turbo or the nastiness of an NA. It's not very exciting to me, you feel like you're waiting for something to happen, but nothing does.
It's not a transmission issue, the manual stick is always a joy, but it would feel even better with a stronger torque delivery. Nothing a tune can't fix.
Just compare the acceleration times between the manual F82 and the manual G82, the G82 in 4th gear is as fast as the F82... in 5th gear

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Yeah, it was a joy to handle a stick after a long time.
Unfortunately, the dull power delivery ruins the experience a bit And it's not a matter of performance.

You planning on tuning?

For me, I'm thinking the base G80 will feel substantially slower than my CS.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Not exactly.
This engine is dead below 3000 rpm (both automatic and manual), and this is nothing new. After that, the boost comes but the power delivery is very flat, dull, boring, no kick in the seat, you feel that the engine could do a lot more but is limited. You can downshift but the engine still works on the same flat range of torque, almost nothing changes. And no, it's nothing remotely close to an NA engine, it's just boring, you don't feel the kick of a turbo or the nastiness of an NA. It's not very exciting to me, you feel like you're waiting for something to happen, but nothing does.
It's not a transmission issue, the manual stick is always a joy, but it would feel even better with a stronger torque delivery. Nothing a tune can't fix.
Just compare the acceleration times between the manual F82 and the manual G82, the G82 in 4th gear is as fast as the F82... in 5th gear

I will my car on Friday and see if this really applies.
On the other hand, I will anyway be blown away as I'm driving a bloody Citroen C2 since 3 months

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Not exactly.
This engine is dead below 3000 rpm (both automatic and manual), and this is nothing new. After that, the boost comes but the power delivery is very flat, dull, boring, no kick in the seat, you feel that the engine could do a lot more but is limited. You can downshift but the engine still works on the same flat range of torque, almost nothing changes. And no, it's nothing remotely close to an NA engine, it's just boring, you don't feel the kick of a turbo or the nastiness of an NA. It's not very exciting to me, you feel like you're waiting for something to happen, but nothing does.
It's not a transmission issue, the manual stick is always a joy, but it would feel even better with a stronger torque delivery. Nothing a tune can't fix.
Just compare the acceleration times between the manual F82 and the manual G82, the G82 in 4th gear is as fast as the F82... in 5th gear

What are you basing this on? A test drive? Yes the S58 doesn't blow its torque wad early like the S55 but it also doesn't peter out at higher RPM like the S55 as it feels stronger as you get closer to the redline. Best way I can describe it is that if feels like a supercharged version of the Mustang Coyote engine. You can see by the trap speeds of S58 equipped cars that the engine doesn't fall off like the S55 when you get going as it just keeps pulling away. If you like the feel of today's modern commuter car turbocharged engines that are made to provide instant torque for the street then yes you may be disappointed but if you are into motorsports the power delivery of the S58 is much better.

[Kinglagos]

On my 6mt there is some "lag" until around 2000rpm, after that it starts pushing very lineary and predictably. I find the throttle modulation excellent and it will be a blast to use on a track as you can really dance around with the pedal and achieve what you are looking for. At 6th gear, 3000rpm and driving at around 150kmh you tap the throttle and it propels forward. I am still in break-in so no experiences at revs above 3800. I plan to increase the rpm as I am getting closer to the service.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

You planning on tuning?

For me, I'm thinking the base G80 will feel substantially slower than my CS.

It is, but still a very enjoyable car!

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

I will my car on Friday and see if this really applies.
On the other hand, I will anyway be blown away as I'm driving a bloody Citroen C2 since 3 months

It's a fast car, no worries!

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

What are you basing this on? A test drive? Yes the S58 doesn't blow its torque wad early like the S55 but it also doesn't peter out at higher RPM like the S55 as it feels stronger as you get closer to the redline. Best way I can describe it is that if feels like a supercharged version of the Mustang Coyote engine. You can see by the trap speeds of S58 equipped cars that the engine doesn't fall off like the S55 when you get going as it just keeps pulling away. If you like the feel of today's modern commuter car turbocharged engines that are made to provide instant torque for the street then yes you may be disappointed but if you are into motorsports the power delivery of the S58 is much better.

Yep, I test drove a manual M3 and it's substantially different from your X3M. I'm referring to the base M3 with 480hp/550nm, your S58 has a different tune, much stronger at mid-rpm.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Now that people had time to test drive some cars – has anyone driven both back to back?
I drove a manual but did not have a chance to drive an auto. Lack of Low end torque is really noticeable in a manual. You have to drive it like you stole it to get performance out of the car at regular street speeds. Car still shines in braking and cornering where I think they are equal but acceleration is the question.
Most tests do one or the other with majority concentrating on competition model, but these factors will really play a role in track time and straight line:
- 100lb deficit in torque
- 30Hp deficit in power
- Taller gears in manual
- Fewer gears in manual
- Slower shifting in manual

I want these 1st world problems

Slumming in an F80

[m20e3087]

I had a chance to drive the 6 speed, as many had mentioned it's all about driver engagement. This is my 1st M with auto, main reason being wife wanted to experience it lol. I am leasing so it's fine. However if I was keeping her long term it definitely would be manual. Could care less about power, or zero to sixty speed, it's all about the feel IMO.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I'm a lifelong 6MT driver....haven't driven one in 2 years. I wonder how long it will be before I adjust.

In my experience none at all, it’s like riding a bike

[CanuckM]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

You planning on tuning?

For me, I'm thinking the base G80 will feel substantially slower than my CS.

That JB4 is pretty tempting

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by CanuckM

That JB4 is pretty tempting

I'll wait to see what flash tunes are out when they crack the DME. I'm about to go into production so I still got 8 weeks before delivery and then I plan on driving the car for 2 months (minimum) before tuning.

[CanuckM]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I'll wait to see what flash tunes are out when they crack the DME. I'm about to go into production so I still got 8 weeks before delivery and then I plan on driving the car for 2 months (minimum) before tuning.

I fear that true flash tunes won't be out by at least 18-24 months at the earliest. We'll see.

[av.7447]

I think the right question here is, how much faster will the manual transmission cars be once the competition tune will become available on them... 😅 We all know that in proper hands the slush box cannot be faster than the manual. 😁

[V E E R]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Not exactly.
This engine is dead below 3000 rpm (both automatic and manual), and this is nothing new. After that, the boost comes but the power delivery is very flat, dull, boring, no kick in the seat, you feel that the engine could do a lot more but is limited. You can downshift but the engine still works on the same flat range of torque, almost nothing changes. And no, it's nothing remotely close to an NA engine, it's just boring, you don't feel the kick of a turbo or the nastiness of an NA. It's not very exciting to me, you feel like you're waiting for something to happen, but nothing does.
It's not a transmission issue, the manual stick is always a joy, but it would feel even better with a stronger torque delivery. Nothing a tune can't fix.
Just compare the acceleration times between the manual F82 and the manual G82, the G82 in 4th gear is as fast as the F82... in 5th gear

I disagree with all your thoughts on this car's power delivery. I have 2500 miles on my car already and the acceleration is pretty raw and there is without a doubt a sizeable shove into the seat. Dull is definitely not a word I would use and the car feels damn quick. Power shifting from 1st to second will spin the tires and I've even spun the rears from 2nd to 3rd. Maybe you should drive it like a man...

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by V E E R

I disagree with all your thoughts on this car's power delivery. I have 2500 miles on my car already and the acceleration is pretty raw and there is without a doubt a sizeable shove into the seat. Dull is definitely not a word I would use and the car feels damn quick. Power shifting from 1st to second will spin the tires and I've even spun the rears from 2nd to 3rd. Maybe you should drive it like a man...

What exactly does it mean to 'drive like a man'? Slipping the tires from 2nd to 3rd? Does that make a car powerful? Omg
Maybe you're used to dull cars, drive (like a man, of course!) an M3 with S55 (or try the full power S58) and you'll understand the difference between a strong power delivery and a dull one, and what does it mean 'to be pushed into the seat'.
What you define 'a damn quick car' (and it is, of course) is slower than the predecessor and you clearly notice that. Only for real men tough.

SPOILER WARNING: Even a Miata slips the tires when you change gears 'like a man'.

[02M3ForMe]

VIERsr You’re the first person I’ve ever come across who complains about a flat torque curve. The G8x MT feels a bit weak in the lower RPM ranges (sub-3000), but it’s very strong at higher revs and pulls all the way to redline in a way the old S55 cars never quite did. The powerband is satisfyingly linear and feels surprisingly NA-like. I’m surprised that you’re underwhelmed with the 2nd/3rd gear full throttle redline experience, coming from an M2C. It’s quite a bit faster and definitely pushes you in the back. Definitely not what I would call a “boring” power delivery.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

VIERsr You’re the first person I’ve ever come across who complains about a flat torque curve. The G8x MT feels a bit weak in the lower RPM ranges (sub-3000), but it’s very strong at higher revs and pulls all the way to redline in a way the old S55 cars never quite did. The powerband is satisfyingly linear and feels surprisingly NA-like. I’m surprised that you’re underwhelmed with the 2nd/3rd gear full throttle redline experience, coming from an M2C. It’s quite a bit faster and definitely pushes you in the back. Definitely not what I would call a “boring” power delivery.

Maybe you missed a point. Someone above asked if this car 'push you into the seat'. No, it doesn't, not for me when I drove it. And the claimed data prove it.
Acceleration 80-120 km/h in 4th/5th with manual transmission:
F80: 3.5s/4.2s
G80: 4.1s/5.6s
F87C: 3.3s/4s (<- smaller wheels, so slightly shorter gear ratios)

This means that if you accelerate to full throttle with the new M3 in 4th gear, you're as fast (or 'pushed in the seat') as the old M3 in 5th. Fast? Depends. Engaging? Well, not for me.
That's not to say the car is slow or bad to drive, it's great and the manual gearbox is amazing, but if you're looking for that kick in the ass of a turbo engine, you'll be disappointed with this detuned engine. Just as if you are looking for an endless top-end, well this is not an NA engine (just like the s55 obviously isn't or any other turbo engine).
But I don't think you buy this car for that, the purpose of the manual transmission is something else, just be aware of your purchase

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

You were in a thread a couple of days ago talking about how the G8x’s power delivery isn’t interesting because the torque curve “does nothing” (stays flat) from 3500-6000RPM. Reminder that constant torque as RPMs rise mean a linear and predictable increase in power as you go to redline.

Metrics for accelerating from 80km/h in 4th is of limited value in a car that does nearly 120km/h in 2nd. Yes, we know the S55 has noticeably more torque than the S58 below 3000RPM; that’s part of the problem when it comes to maintaining good behavior launching off the line. Yes, the S58 will penalize you more for being out of gear since it makes its power higher up, just like an NA car. Those numbers are completely irrelevant to whether the car “pushes you back in the seat” during an actual acceleration run where the RPMs are always above 3000. In those situations, the numbers flip the other way in favor of the G8x.

If you’re coming out of an S55 car and expect to be able to lazily punch it from 2000RPM and get the car moving semi-optimally will be disappointed. Sometimes I miss that character of my old F8x cars, but going to redline in the G8x is way more rewarding and exciting than doing the same in my old M4s, M3 CS, and M2Cs.

This is not what our friend asked for.

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

I'd like to know that as well. Can you do a fast 2nd gear pull from 30km/h until you hit 80-100 ? Will it push you into the seat ?

At 30 km/h in 2nd gear nothing you described happens.
FYI, at 30 km/h in 2nd the engine is not revving at 6000 rpm.