[beamlord]

Originally Posted by edi221

Follow up question, why did you choose the Endless MX-72 plus? From the forum, it seems the favorable brake pads are ECB or Isweep? There's seldom any topic on the endless brake pads?

Those dust free pads are for city queens, no good for track.
Endless track+street pads are for more hardcore applications.

[ember.m4]

Originally Posted by edi221

Follow up question, why did you choose the Endless MX-72 plus? From the forum, it seems the favorable brake pads are ECB or Isweep? There's seldom any topic on the endless brake pads?

It really depends on what you want out of your car. The way I see it, almost no true performance "upgrade" comes at no cost. Anyone who tells you they can make your car "better" with no downside is likely lying to you. As it relates to brakes, you basically have to pick between dust, noise, wear, bite, fade, etc. Different brake pads will be ideal for different applications, and no brake pad is good at everything.

Heavy track users typically go for more aggressive pads from companies with proven usage in racing (pagid, endless, ferodo, or local companies like cobalt, carbotech etc.). Aggressive pads are typically bad for street use (compromised braking at low temps or high wear on rotors, high dusting, high noise), but are great for track (little to no fade, consistent, good modulation, slow pad wear at high temp).

If you only intend to track once in a while, or you only drive your car on streets, then these characteristics are not nearly as important, and it makes more sense to optimize for desirable street qualities (low dust, low noise, good bite at low temps). Brands like EBC, iSweep, and many of the other brands often discussed on these forums make good pads for these applications.

Having said all of this, EBC does make hardcore track pads as well, and companies like endless or ferodo have street pads as well. However, different brands are focused on different markets, and hence have a better reputation within those specific communities.

To answer your question more directly, the reason you always hear about EBC and iSweep etc. is because the majority of the bimmerpost community is street-focused. Tracking is expensive, dangerous, inaccessible, or flat out unappealing to a lot of people.

[edi221]

Originally Posted by ember.m4

It really depends on what you want out of your car. The way I see it, almost no true performance "upgrade" comes at no cost. Anyone who tells you they can make your car "better" with no downside is likely lying to you. As it relates to brakes, you basically have to pick between dust, noise, wear, bite, fade, etc. Different brake pads will be ideal for different applications, and no brake pad is good at everything.

Heavy track users typically go for more aggressive pads from companies with proven usage in racing (pagid, endless, ferodo, or local companies like cobalt, carbotech etc.). Aggressive pads are typically bad for street use (compromised braking at low temps or high wear on rotors, high dusting, high noise), but are great for track (little to no fade, consistent, good modulation, slow pad wear at high temp).

If you only intend to track once in a while, or you only drive your car on streets, then these characteristics are not nearly as important, and it makes more sense to optimize for desirable street qualities (low dust, low noise, good bite at low temps). Brands like EBC, iSweep, and many of the other brands often discussed on these forums make good pads for these applications.

Having said all of this, EBC does make hardcore track pads as well, and companies like endless or ferodo have street pads as well. However, different brands are focused on different markets, and hence have a better reputation within those specific communities.

To answer your question more directly, the reason you always hear about EBC and iSweep etc. is because the majority of the bimmerpost community is street-focused. Tracking is expensive, dangerous, inaccessible, or flat out unappealing to a lot of people.

Thank you very much for the info.

[oversteer12]

Originally Posted by ember.m4

It really depends on what you want out of your car. The way I see it, almost no true performance "upgrade" comes at no cost. Anyone who tells you they can make your car "better" with no downside is likely lying to you. As it relates to brakes, you basically have to pick between dust, noise, wear, bite, fade, etc. Different brake pads will be ideal for different applications, and no brake pad is good at everything.

Heavy track users typically go for more aggressive pads from companies with proven usage in racing (pagid, endless, ferodo, or local companies like cobalt, carbotech etc.). Aggressive pads are typically bad for street use (compromised braking at low temps or high wear on rotors, high dusting, high noise), but are great for track (little to no fade, consistent, good modulation, slow pad wear at high temp).

If you only intend to track once in a while, or you only drive your car on streets, then these characteristics are not nearly as important, and it makes more sense to optimize for desirable street qualities (low dust, low noise, good bite at low temps). Brands like EBC, iSweep, and many of the other brands often discussed on these forums make good pads for these applications.

Having said all of this, EBC does make hardcore track pads as well, and companies like endless or ferodo have street pads as well. However, different brands are focused on different markets, and hence have a better reputation within those specific communities.

To answer your question more directly, the reason you always hear about EBC and iSweep etc. is because the majority of the bimmerpost community is street-focused. Tracking is expensive, dangerous, inaccessible, or flat out unappealing to a lot of people.

Where did you buy the MX72 plus pads?

[ember.m4]

Originally Posted by oversteer12

Where did you buy the MX72 plus pads?

Nengun. It was missing on their website when I ordered mine, but they've since fixed that.

[m2michael23]

AP9668 with DS3.12.

I have yet to test them. It’s over 100 degree here in SoCal.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by arulm3cx

I'm using XP-12 up front and XP-10 in rear with GYSC3R and works very well at VIR, CMP and NCCAR so far. Pulling more than 1.3G in braking Also, I'm an intermediate drive who can overheat the brakes lol

Looking to replace my EBC Blues. Your setup sounds very interesting.

Any fade after long sessions? How did having different compounds front to rear affect braking? Why not XP12 all around, were the rears locking with XP12?

How are they for occasional street and canyon use? Noisy or quiet?

[arulm3cx]

Originally Posted by jmg

Looking to replace my EBC Blues. Your setup sounds very interesting.

Any fade after long sessions? How did having different compounds front to rear affect braking? Why not XP12 all around, were the rears locking with XP12?

How are they for occasional street and canyon use? Noisy or quiet?

Long sessions depends on track. NCCAR is not hard on brakes so nothing. VIR high speed and hard braking after straights. 5-6 laps and brake pedal is soft. Heavy car and needs lot of braking power after 150+ speed. Street driving is very noise with CT pads. I was told to different use compounds to maintain bias 🤔

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by arulm3cx

Long sessions depends on track. NCCAR is not hard on brakes so nothing. VIR high speed and hard braking after straights. 5-6 laps and brake pedal is soft. Heavy car and needs lot of braking power after 150+ speed. Street driving is very noise with CT pads. I was told to different use compounds to maintain bias ��

If it's not squirming under (heavy) braking, the bias is fine.

Heavy cars like ours need pads that are able to deal with a very high peak temperature which are generally the aggressive pads. The downside is that those pads wear quickly but at least they don't wear the rotors as quickly as the endurance pads.

I have some RSL29s I haven't tried yet but once those Pagids are worn, I'm going with CarboTech's XP20 front and rear. Long ago, I did talk to Carbotech's specialists and they suggested against the XP20 front and rear for my E92 track car due to bias issues, but I never had those. The E92 with slicks wore out XP12s in a couple of days and I can get double the track days out of the XP20s so that's my justification recommending XP20 at a minimum for the heavy and quick G8xs.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Ximian

If it's not squirming under (heavy) braking, the bias is fine.

Heavy cars like ours need pads that are able to deal with a very high peak temperature which are generally the aggressive pads. The downside is that those pads wear quickly but at least they don't wear the rotors as quickly as the endurance pads.

I have some RSL29s I haven't tried yet but once those Pagids are worn, I'm going with CarboTech's XP20 front and rear. Long ago, I did talk to Carbotech's specialists and they suggested against the XP20 front and rear for my E92 track car due to bias issues, but I never had those. The E92 with slicks wore out XP12s in a couple of days and I can get double the track days out of the XP20s so that's my justification recommending XP20 at a minimum for the heavy and quick G8xs.

Would the XP20 be too much for Cup2s?

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by jmg

Would the XP20 be too much for Cup2s?

Not at all. If you use all of the brake pedal frequently, you'll have to put a little bit more effort into threshold braking. However, it's not much more difficult than with the stock pads.

[Boomer 2019]

I have been using Cobalt pads exclusively since January of 22. It was my worn OEM pads and backing plates that Cobalt used to develop their line of G80/82 pads. I also served as their test mule.

In my opinion they are one of, if not the best pad available for these cars. I do most of my driving at Sebring which is as tough on brakes as any track out there. Top speed for me is @ 145 with turn in at @ 70, and there are lots of other heavy braking zones to keep you focused. Sessions are 30 min. I find myself bracing against the wheel, and I have never experienced the slightest fade, mushiness, or wobble. They also give good longevity. The rears will always wear out first, but that is physics, and there is no way around it as long as you are using the OEM brakes.

I also leave my pads on year round, and daily drive them. What can I say, I am a lazy SOB. The only noise that they make on the street is a very soft swooshing sound which no one has ever noticed but me (I have asked passengers). At speeds below @ 5 mph they will sometimes squeal slightly to the stop (no worse than OEM's). With experience I have learned how to eliminate this (mostly).

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by jmg

Would the XP20 be too much for Cup2s?

Carbotech told me that the XP20 would be to much for the cup2. I’ve been running XP-12 because of this.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by PDOT

Carbotech told me that the XP20 would be to much for the cup2. I’ve been running XP-12 because of this.

Next time just get the XP20s and you'll be happy with them. Unless you don't have much experience with this type of aggressive pad, then stick with the 12s until you're ready for more braking power.

[fl1by]

Originally Posted by Ximian

XP20 pads are for heavier cars with a significant amount of aero and very sticky track tires. They are extremely aggressive and not suitable for road tires such as the Cup 2 or Cup 2R. They would often active ABS on track tires on my other car and that caused some issues with the caliper that's taken me two years to start figuring out.

XP12s should work well enough.

Never hear about needing to match tire cohesion with pad/rotor friction. I had the issue of brakes exceeding tire friction on my big brake C5... Modulating the silly aggressive pad with 200TW tires was a challenge. PS4S and OEM is a good pairing, but then your move to Blue Stuff pads, or something more aggressive and the PS4S seem to fall off quicker as you ask more of them. Then on to Cup2, and the domino effect continues.

[BoilerUP]

I run G-Loc R16 (comparable to Carbotech XP20) in my ATSV which is comparable to a G8x..they work great with RE71RS but are a bit on the aggressive side for the Conti ECF.

I think the R16/XP20 would probably be fine for a Cup2, but admittedly that'll be driver technique dependent.

[Cmassey3]

Shouldn't PFC be rolling out their compounds for the G8x platform soon? https://pfcbrakes.com/bmw-brakes/

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ember.m4

Daily + track. If I was going track only, I would use something even more aggressive.

Any follow up on this? I'm looking for a track/street pad that isn't to noisy, but a bit of an upgrade over factory. Compromises on cold braking is okay. How are the MX72-PLUS on track? Noisy on street?

[m4ml]

My iSweep 2000s had one autocross day, five sessions at Streets of Willow (super easy on the brakes), and five sessions at Chuckwalla. Essentially, the autocross and SoW didn't cause much wear at all. I checked my pads before I started my sessions at Chuckwalla and I had 90%+ pad life left. By the fifth 20-minute session at Chuckwalla the fronts were completely gone.

I swapped the iSweeps for Pagid RSL29s on a recommendation from tom @ eas before I went to Buttonwillow. After nine 25-minute sessions at Buttonwillow (which, in total, was much harder on the brakes than what the iSweeps had been through in their entire life) the pads look great. Maybe 20% pad wear in that time, and even that is likely overestimating.

On the street, so far, the cold braking is good, initial bite is fantastic, and the noise is much less than I was expecting. I do get a good "Obi-Wan Kenobi powering down the tractor beam" sound when braking from speed, but I don't get much noise at all at low speeds. I can't comment yet on the brake dust, because I've only had my street wheels/tires on for a couple of days since install and I haven't driven much, and I just had the car detailed - so no brake dust right now! We'll see what happens in the next few days though.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by m4ml

I swapped the iSweeps for Pagid RSL29s on a recommendation from tom @ eas before I went to Buttonwillow. After nine 25-minute sessions at Buttonwillow (which, in total, was much harder on the brakes than what the iSweeps had been through in their entire life) the pads look great. Maybe 20% pad wear in that time, and even that is likely overestimating.

On the street, so far, the cold braking is good, initial bite is fantastic, and the noise is much less than I was expecting. I do get a good "Obi-Wan Kenobi powering down the tractor beam" sound when braking from speed, but I don't get much noise at all at low speeds. I can't comment yet on the brake dust, because I've only had my street wheels/tires on for a couple of days since install and I haven't driven much, and I just had the car detailed - so no brake dust right now! We'll see what happens in the next few days though.

My RSL29 experience is similar to yours. The wear after my first and only track event seems negligible at this time. Their performance was more than I was expecting, which does not say much, of course.

On the street, when I first put them on, they were similar to a school bus brakes. Once the layer of stock pads were cleaned off the rotors in about 40-50 miles later, I bed the RSL29s in and the noise went away completely. It is now coming back very slightly. After the next event in a couple of weeks, I am sure there won't be any noise again. I might have to bed them in again two months afterwards.

Brake dust is far less than stock pads, even after the track event. However, we had pretty cold ambient temps, so in summer I expect the wear and dust will increase.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by m2michael23

AP9668 with DS3.12.

I have yet to test them. It’s over 100 degree here in SoCal.

I wanted to check to see if you can provide any updates on the brake package after few months of use. I think these are top level brakes, but I have concerns using such high-performance brake system designed for the track to include street driving. They don't have dust boots or any type of seals between the caliper housing and the pistons. I am just wondering how that might effect the system over time.

Thank you in advance.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I wanted to check to see if you can provide any updates on the brake package after few months of use. I think these are top level brakes, but I have concerns using such high-performance brake system designed for the track to include street driving. They don't have dust boots or any type of seals between the caliper housing and the pistons. I am just wondering how that might effect the system over time.

Thank you in advance.

Unless you're driving on a gravel or dirt roads frequently, not having the dust seals for street driving is less or just as bad as not having them on track.

Meanwhile on track with excessive brake dust, sand, dirt, chunks of tire, and occasional fluids, plenty of opportunities to get those pistons dirty. It's only acceptable for track use because those brakes should be getting inspected before each event so a problem is caught sooner than a street driven car that rarely gets inspected.