View Poll Results: AWD? | |||
Yes, AWD M3/M4 like the F90 M5 | 199 | 63.38% | |
No, keep it RWD | 76 | 24.20% | |
Either way is cool with me | 39 | 12.42% | |
Voters: 314. You may not vote on this poll |
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05-21-2017, 11:21 AM | #23 | |
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(1.) Well first you ride organic growth and can't lose more existing converts than you gain. They're already doing this. (2.) Next you can steal market share by making the gold standard, but those days seem to be over and they're already doing this. (3.) You open up to a new segment of buyers. The M2 makes this possible as you can direct more hardcore buyers there (so you protect net loss) and add new features that you've never had before ... and AWD is the last frontier here before electric. With AWD they can pull in winter buyers that've held off in the past due to worries about winter, and they can one-up Audi by giving the option to disable the system. BMW is going all out on M xDrive marketing by giving youtubers and other non-traditional channels sneak previews with Timo Glock. Feels to me like they're ramping up for more than just the M5. |
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05-21-2017, 12:13 PM | #24 |
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I would expect so. BMW has clearly spent a lot of time developing M xDrive, and to be honest it looks pretty good, especially with the 2WD option. And with all the flack the F8X platform has taken for going sideways when the throttle is mashed...
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05-21-2017, 05:50 PM | #27 |
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05-21-2017, 06:50 PM | #28 |
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The sales guys get their information from pretty much the same sources that that we do: Official press releases, spy shots, speculation, and rumor. Like most companies, BMW is tight with upcoming projects even from it's own sales team. It has to go through marketing before it even gets to distribution and sales.
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05-22-2017, 07:51 AM | #29 | |
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Well, if the AWD system is in that high demand in this class then Mercedes will no doubt make the move and fit their new version of it as well. And we should believe that BMW will have that knowledge long before we do - potentially in time to react for the G2x-based M3 if it is necessary.
If it were as simple as one-upping the competition, BMW would just give the current car the option for more performance. It wouldn't take much - they have the water injected S55 and could add other existing parts such as the M performance suspension and exhaust. With the existing weight advantage, that would no doubt put them firmly in front of the AMG in "S" trim. But notice that they instead took the lower cost "appearance package" route and released the M4 CS with some GTS cosmetic parts and an immaterial bump in power over the competition package (accomplished via simple software tweaks). And yet, we both know they'll sell every one without problem. In this segment margins are too important. And business cases are made or broken on features that cost much less than an AWD system. Even if you increase sales, if you are making commensurately less per vehicle then the board may not care. M, AMG, and other in house performance divisions are small sales and run on tight budgets. It is very much a "do more with less" type of game. Quote:
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05-22-2017, 11:44 AM | #31 |
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05-22-2017, 03:17 PM | #32 |
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There are more than enough speculation that the next gen 2 series will be riding FWD platform.. we know it's brother that shared the chassis (1 series hatch) is going FWD when next generation comes along..
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05-23-2017, 05:51 AM | #33 |
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The next 2 Series has RWD chassis codes: G42/G43. It will continue on a RWD platform. The next 1 Series is F40/F41 - UKL chassis codes, confirming the move to FWD.
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05-23-2017, 06:00 AM | #34 | |
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I however agree that they sould have done "a little more" to the CS, particularly on the suspension.
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05-23-2017, 07:35 AM | #35 |
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Do you guys think this would hurt resale if the new m3 had it? I feel the complexity of the system and more components to maintain would scare some people especially out of warranty, Just a thought. The past generation M's in the used market holds decent value, most m3's to date and last of the E39 M5 for the 5 series generation.
Last edited by 4DRS55; 05-23-2017 at 09:35 AM.. |
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05-23-2017, 08:20 AM | #36 | |
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Similarly, keeping the car RWD is a lot cheaper than going to AWD, so they will go that route until absolutely forced to do otherwise. Just my opinion based on armchair analysis and a hobbyist-level knowledge of the marketplace. But I don't think I am too far off on this. |
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05-23-2017, 08:25 AM | #37 |
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I just hope they get the balance in the x drive AWD system right. The Audi Quattro is far to conservative and understeer just ruins the experience.
BMW won't be pressured to move as long as the C63 remains rear wheel driven. |
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05-23-2017, 06:42 PM | #38 |
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I don't like the idea. What all wheel drive car have any of you guys heard of that doesn't understeer? I realize those limits may be higher than common sense on the roads would allow, but I still don't like the idea. Of course the additional transfer cases add weight and sap power too boot.
I would rather see them tire up and do some trickery in the lower gears with boost. Or just stop the power game and focus on reducing weight, not having the dam things grow each generation and tune the chassis better. |
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05-23-2017, 09:10 PM | #39 | ||
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For example, BMW has DCTs, AMG never has yet AMG sales have grown and BMW isn't pressured to follow suit (until now?) So their customers are similar, but they're not the same, and follow-the-other guy isn't always the right choice. Maybe with a big decision like drive systems, I dunno. Then there's 'verts which, again, BMW has had a market for but AMG hasn't (until now?). Further both BMW and AMG have now created their individual lines (M and Merc-amg) which sounds like small and high profit is no longer the goal (similar to when porsche started making SUVs). Of course another way to look at it is that they're testing it and if they can get the handling right it happens for either of them, if not it doesn't (i.e., the race is already happening). I suppose there are probably a lot of factors. Anyway, just some thoughts, it'll be fun to watch! |
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05-24-2017, 07:08 AM | #40 | |
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05-24-2017, 07:57 AM | #41 | |||
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05-24-2017, 10:28 AM | #42 | |
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Take 'verts: is AMG really trying to steal BMW M 'vert customers? Or are trying to create a new segment of Benz buyers? I suspect it's the latter. AWD seems the same to me - is BMW really trying to protect against customer loss or would the primary goal be to open up a new segment of M buyers? I tend to go with the latter. I'm a great example of someone who might switch to AMG, but the value just isn't there: it's about 30% more on a lease, it's a soft top, it's a crappier transmission with a stalk shifter, it doesn't look as nice, and it isn't as sharp as the M4. But it does have v8. That's just not a great match up for me whether you add AWD or not. So who does it work for? People that like Benz and would probably never buy a BMW. |
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05-24-2017, 10:42 AM | #43 |
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I'm conflicted here. Having AWD as an option can't be argued with, but I bought my '18 M4 specifically for the RWD and manual transmission. I prefer this setup because my DD is a 435i xDrive automatic. That being said, if BMW kills both RWD and M/T for the next gen, my current '18 M4 ZCP M/T could be worth a lot of money.
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05-24-2017, 10:51 AM | #44 | |
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To address your specific example, if the C63 had been available when I was ready to purchase in 2014, I'd have definitely gave it very serious and careful consideration. And if I were buying a convertible like I had the past two generations, I think it might very well have given me motivation to wait - I think that car (the A205 C63) is a complete beast. Would love to have one and would have no problem choosing it over an F83 M4. The sedan, it turns out, is a little lacking in the aesthetic department (not sold on the current four-door Mercedes design language, plus it lacks the fat fenders and hence wider tires of the two door models), so it would be a tougher sell. But the V8 might just be enough to do it. For better or worse I never had to make the choice. At the end of the day I put the chances of a G** M3/M4 with AWD very low, and the chances of the same with a *206 "C63" (or whatever they call it) staying RWD at essentially zero. |
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