[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I think you are stuck in the past.
I got 7% off MSRP on the Macan S within 15 minutes of negotiations.
I ended up getting a GTS.
There are plenty of Cayenne and Macan allocations out there and 2025s are around the corner.

You can get a discount on basically anything in the lineup now sans GT cars. I got discounts on both of my GT4s when I bought them, but that is an exception due to my relationship with my dealer. Overall, you should be getting something off nearly any normal car from Porsche especially if you're a repeat customer.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out for them, because they're back to producing more cars, and the used market is flooded with cars - GTs included and prices have def started to drop off.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

In what way does a 992 C2S or C4S “destroy” a G8x?

I’ve driven practically every 992 Carrera variant and “destroy” is definitely not the word I’d use to describe the driving experience versus the G8x. My view is they’re actually quite evenly matched, with some elements of the drive better in the 992, but absolutely within the same ballpark, and at exceptionally high cost and with meaningful compromises in other areas. Coming from the G8x, I never got to a place where I could justify spending the price difference for one.

I’ve owned multiple 992 Turbo S and that is the only non-GT 992 that feels (and is) properly head and shoulders above the G8x.

I think this is generally spot on. I'd rather a G8X over a Carrera T or S.
However, I've spent time in a 992 GTS and I found that to be a superior car to the G8X as well.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

You can get a discount on basically anything in the lineup now sans GT cars. I got discounts on both of my GT4s when I bought them, but that is an exception due to my relationship with my dealer. Overall, you should be getting something off nearly any normal car from Porsche especially if you're a repeat customer.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out for them, because they're back to producing more cars, and the used market is flooded with cars - GTs included and prices have def started to drop off.

I have never owned a Porsche before my Macan now.
Zero relationship with any Porsche dealer.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by WWM3

I think this is generally spot on. I'd rather a G8X over a Carrera T or S.
However, I've spent time in a 992 GTS and I found that to be a superior car to the G8X as well.

I've done a lot of driving in the GTS as well, but really didnt feel materially better than an S to me (in fact of the multiple GTS cars I've owned it was marginal at best), especially not for 2X the price of a G8x assuming no mark-up. With some of the ADMs, people are 225-250K for a GTS. Then again, you also need to consider that there is the CS and CSL (both considerably cheaper than a GTS), which the CSL does perform better than the GTS (it was very close on N'Ring with a GT4RS). Not sure I've seen much on the CS but it would probably perform better as well given its a slight bit quicker than the G8x Comp.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I have never owned a Porsche before my Macan now.
Zero relationship with any Porsche dealer.

My point was that discounts should be normal now by and large, more so if you're a good customer. I remember when I bought my Macan GTS in 2018 it was at 10% off which is invoice.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

My point was that discounts should be normal now by and large, more so if you're a good customer. I remember when I bought my Macan GTS in 2018 it was at 10% off which is invoice.

That isn’t really the case. They are there, but not normal. Porsche still is supply constrained. Unless you are solely talking about Macans.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

My point was that discounts should be normal now by and large, more so if you're a good customer. I remember when I bought my Macan GTS in 2018 it was at 10% off which is invoice.

I do not believe there are any (significant) discounts on the Macan GTS yet, especially for the first time Porsche buyers

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I've done a lot of driving in the GTS as well, but really didnt feel materially better than an S to me (in fact of the multiple GTS cars I've owned it was marginal at best), especially not for 2X the price of a G8x assuming no mark-up. With some of the ADMs, people are 225-250K for a GTS. Then again, you also need to consider that there is the CS and CSL (both considerably cheaper than a GTS), which the CSL does perform better than the GTS (it was very close on N'Ring with a GT4RS). Not sure I've seen much on the CS but it would probably perform better as well given its a slight bit quicker than the G8x Comp.

I agree. I went from S to a GTS during my 991.2 days and I actually likeds my S more. The GTS was faster, but only in the top end at 80mph or higher. I wouldnt do a GTS again because of it. That and centerlocks are a PITA.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

I agree. I went from S to a GTS during my 991.2 days and I actually likeds my S more. The GTS was faster, but only in the top end at 80mph or higher. I wouldnt do a GTS again because of it. That and centerlocks are a PITA.

Yes the 991.2 had bigger turbos which gave it a bit more at speed but sacrificed the low end with a lot of turbo lag. They don’t touch the S58 for its more race-bred feel by any stretch. I liked my 991.2S but actually preferred my 991.2T. I think the T with PDK felt better matched than. The S and manual. Of course I still prefer my 991.1S and manual with the NA 3.8 - much more of an experience to drive than the turbo cars.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Of course I still prefer my 991.1S and manual with the NA 3.8 - much more of an experience to drive than the turbo cars.

It's much more of an experience, but I couldn't get over the gearing. Top of second was like, what, 72 MPH and, IIRC, peak power is like 7,200 RPM and peak torque was like 5,600 or higher? Never had many opportunities to wring it's neck and drive it in the meat of the powerband. Sad Porsche is STILL doing this.

Sounded awesome though. And so smooth.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Yes the 991.2 had bigger turbos which gave it a bit more at speed but sacrificed the low end with a lot of turbo lag. They don’t touch the S58 for its more race-bred feel by any stretch. I liked my 991.2S but actually preferred my 991.2T. I think the T with PDK felt better matched than. The S and manual. Of course I still prefer my 991.1S and manual with the NA 3.8 - much more of an experience to drive than the turbo cars.

I only drove a base 911 once. It was a 992. But I was shocked at how fun it was to drive. I enjoyed ringing out the motor between shifts. It was a very well matched power to weight ratio that just felt fun. So I totally get what you are saying about you enjoying the T more than the S. I see why many people like the T. Im still an S guy myself. But the base or T power output is a lot of fun.

If you bored with a base 911 or T, slap a M engineering tune on it and go baby go!

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

I only drove a base 911 once. It was a 992. But I was shocked at how fun it was to drive. I enjoyed ringing out the motor between shifts. It was a very well matched power to weight ratio that just felt fun. So I totally get what you are saying about you enjoying the T more than the S. I see why many people like the T. Im still an S guy myself. But the base or T power output is a lot of fun.

If you bored with a base 911 or T, slap a M engineering tune on it and go baby go!

Yes, and let’s be honest, the base and S both make more than 380/440 hp. I’ve seen a stock S put down nearly 430 wheel hp. Even the GTS though would have a hard time with the G8x as they are stronger at higher speeds - M cars always excel at high speed.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

It's much more of an experience, but I couldn't get over the gearing. Top of second was like, what, 72 MPH and, IIRC, peak power is like 7,200 RPM and peak torque was like 5,600 or higher? Never had many opportunities to wring it's neck and drive it in the meat of the powerband. Sad Porsche is STILL doing this.

Sounded awesome though. And so smooth.

I mean they have ample torque, but yes, the gearing is long, as it is long on every Porsche car. PDK usually gets slightly shorter gearing, especially in GT cars, but it only makes a different of 3-4 mph which isnt anything monumental.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I mean they have ample torque, but yes, the gearing is long, as it is long on every Porsche car. PDK usually gets slightly shorter gearing, especially in GT cars, but it only makes a different of 3-4 mph which isnt anything monumental.

I mean, I owned the car for 3 years and not sure I agree with the whole ample torque thing. I found it pretty easy to get caught out in too high of a gear with the 3.8 / 7MT combo. And 7th on the highway was useless for any kind of acceleration. Can't tell you how often I ran 6th unless cruising really fast, or downshifted from 7th to 5th.

Even at lower speeds trundling around in 3rd gear at, say, 45 and you wanted to punch it the car wouldn't get out of the hole. You had to always downshift to second. And then if you wanted to let the car rev out, you were going way too fast.

400 HP at 7,400 RPM - cool
325 ft-lbs at 5,600 RPM. Eh. Not great.

I much preferred the 6 speed of the 997's ratios. Our roads here are straight and flat. The best time I ever had with the car was driving it home through the mountains in North Carolina and TN. There, the gearing made perfect sense. But in day to day on flat, straight roads, it was frustrating.

Sounded amazing though, with the PSE.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, I owned the car for 3 years and not sure I agree with the whole ample torque thing. I found it pretty easy to get caught out in too high of a gear with the 3.8 / 7MT combo. And 7th on the highway was useless for any kind of acceleration. Can't tell you how often I ran 6th unless cruising really fast, or downshifted from 7th to 5th.

Even at lower speeds trundling around in 3rd gear at, say, 45 and you wanted to punch it the car wouldn't get out of the hole. You had to always downshift to second. And then if you wanted to let the car rev out, you were going way too fast.

400 HP at 7,400 RPM - cool
325 ft-lbs at 5,600 RPM. Eh. Not great.

I much preferred the 6 speed of the 997's ratios. Our roads here are straight and flat. The best time I ever had with the car was driving it home through the mountains in North Carolina and TN. There, the gearing made perfect sense. But in day to day on flat, straight roads, it was frustrating.

Sounded amazing though, with the PSE.

All fair points. I too prefer the 6MT, but def just such a fun car to drive, and few cars sound better than the Le Mans wail of the F6 with PSE.

[JEM3]

OP - I have been in the same boat as you as per my reply a while back. Sold my G80 back in January, and was searching for some time.

Wanted to report back my experience:

Test drove a bunch of cars, didn't really like anything. I was so close to just purchasing another G80 because in the price bracket, its very.... very tough to beat.

I test drove both a PDK and a manual 718 GT4, they were about $25k more than a g80 (based on my build, not MSRP vs MSRP), of course the GT4s were used with about 15k~ miles or so. Some were tracked, which that's where if you want a super clean GT4, you might be looking in the 130s. For me personally, too much for that car.

I loved the GT4s, but there is one thing I don't like and its the gearing... as you probably have heard in many videos. The gearing is long and its an NA engine, so you really don't get any power until higher up in the revs, which is fine, but then it becomes a struggle to stay within the power band on the street.

I test drove both iterations, a PDK and a manual, both had the same issue. I was just going to say f it... and just pull the trigger and then randomly ran into a 718 GTS 4.0 with the deman gearing...

and holy shit, it absolutely transforms the car. When I first saw it for sale, it bugged me that it "wasn't a GT4" but when I got to drive it, I did not care. I ended up getting the GTS 4.0 and I absolutely love it.... but its a completely different experience than the G80. The G80 was a rocket.

Not saying the 718 is not fast, but don't expect it to be "G80 Fast" but its damn fun!




TLDR - If you want to make a switch, it's going to be a completely different experience, but make sure you test drive them. I for one felt underwhelmed by the GT4, the regearing makes a world of difference. G80 is a hell of a car, tough to beat for the price.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by JEM3

OP - I have been in the same boat as you as per my reply a while back. Sold my G80 back in January, and was searching for some time.

Wanted to report back my experience:

Test drove a bunch of cars, didn't really like anything. I was so close to just purchasing another G80 because in the price bracket, its very.... very tough to beat.

I test drove both a PDK and a manual 718 GT4, they were about $25k more than a g80 (based on my build, not MSRP vs MSRP), of course the GT4s were used with about 15k~ miles or so. Some were tracked, which that's where if you want a super clean GT4, you might be looking in the 130s. For me personally, too much for that car.

I loved the GT4s, but there is one thing I don't like and its the gearing... as you probably have heard in many videos. The gearing is long and its an NA engine, so you really don't get any power until higher up in the revs, which is fine, but then it becomes a struggle to stay within the power band on the street.

I test drove both iterations, a PDK and a manual, both had the same issue. I was just going to say f it... and just pull the trigger and then randomly ran into a 718 GTS 4.0 with the deman gearing...

and holy shit, it absolutely transforms the car. When I first saw it for sale, it bugged me that it "wasn't a GT4" but when I got to drive it, I did not care. I ended up getting the GTS 4.0 and I absolutely love it.... but its a completely different experience than the G80. The G80 was a rocket.

Not saying the 718 is not fast, but don't expect it to be "G80 Fast" but its damn fun!




TLDR - If you want to make a switch, it's going to be a completely different experience, but make sure you test drive them. I for one felt underwhelmed by the GT4, the regearing makes a world of difference. G80 is a hell of a car, tough to beat for the price.

I would LOVE a Deman Boxster GTS manual with the gearbox mods. Holy hell would be amazing. Congrats!