04-16-2021, 10:18 AM | #45 |
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Here is my impression of DCT vs ZF8:
At lower RPM's (under ~4500 or so) both gearboxes feel pretty similar in shift speed and feel. The difference I perceived is noticeable at high RPM where the G80 feels like it ramps down engine torque prior to and after the shift to save the gearbox. The DCT has no torque ramp at the shift so it feels faster and more dramatic. The actual shift time change between gears is probably very close between the two gearboxes if you just measure the time at 0 torque but the entire shift process the ZF executes (where it ramps down torque, shifts, ramps up torque) is longer than DCT.
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04-16-2021, 10:36 AM | #46 | |
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04-16-2021, 11:19 AM | #47 | |
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Really though, we're talking about relatively fine margins here and it's not gonna matter to most people who buy this thing. Could G8X have been better with a DCT? Maybe, but ZF fits what G8X (and the rest of the current BMW offering) is trying to achieve so I'm inclined to believe that DCT wouldn't jive as well with the total package.
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04-16-2021, 11:59 AM | #48 | |
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04-16-2021, 12:26 PM | #49 | ||
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I think bmw quoted shift times are like 80ms DCt and 120ms ZF but either way it's very very small amount of time for both transmissions.
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04-16-2021, 02:00 PM | #50 |
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Since this thread has a lot of back and forth on the transmissions, I'll ask Evolve and the others here. My CS is the only DCT car I've owned, although I've driven a couple of other dual clutch examples, Porsche and Audi. Before that, all manual transmissions. I drive the CS exclusively in manual mode, regardless of what I'm doing or where I'm going. I feel like many of the comments relating to the DCT vs the ZF are presuming they're both in auto mode. Being that I enjoy driving exclusively in manual mode, would I be disappointed enough in the ZF to just get the manual instead? I never thought I'd like a DCT over a manual, and I'm still not sure I do, but man do I really enjoy the implementation in CS. So sharp and crisp.
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04-16-2021, 02:17 PM | #51 |
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If this is what you like about the DCT, then you will likely not like ZF8 as much. Some people make it out like ZF8 is smoother than melted butter, but there is still kick in a high load shift, and the shift times are general DCT level quick. However, the shifts themselves have an nearly imperceptible amount of latency - just enough to make it feel less sharp and crisp when compared directly to a good DCT. Also, the clutches in the DCT are stronger so they can be slammed, so a current planetary auto (to my knowledge) cannot replicate that. I do think that BMWs most aggressive DCT shifts sometimes feel like they are engineered to be dramatic, but this immediacy difference can still be felt in the smooth shifts under lateral load even though there is no kick IMO. Again, we are talking about feel here as I highly doubt there is any significant performance difference between the two. The biggest feel thing outside of the shifts themselves is the DCT feels like and begs to be driven like it is an automated manual, where as the ZF drives like an automatic.
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04-16-2021, 02:34 PM | #52 | |
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You can live with it if you love the rest of the car but it's not a highlight like the DCT is.
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04-16-2021, 05:04 PM | #54 |
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The Joe Achilles video clearly shows how DCT is quicker to kickdown.
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04-16-2021, 05:51 PM | #55 | ||
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04-16-2021, 06:20 PM | #56 | |
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Build was fully loaded with carbon seats minus full leather. Pirelli's Power: It was very cold outside like 37f or 3c so poor traction and it was brand new so never went over 5500rpm. The power is great it's fits the car perfectly. Chassis: Holy cow this thing is solid, I mean it feels like a tank, you really feel the chassis isn't doing any suspension work. Suspension : Very bad roads around here so it feels stiff but not in a wrong way, it's stiff but not crashy like my M2 was or a F82 I test drove. You feel the road a lot but you don't get banged. Noticable difference between comfort and Sport Plus, This should be very fun on track ! Interior: Once you have some time in the G series getting back in a F series feels like going back in a E series when you own a F series. A lot of improvements. Very good noise insulation also. Exterior: Much much better in person, the wheels are totally different from a picture. Transmission: I think the ZF8 suits this car better than a DCT but I think the DCT fits the M2 better. The M/T just adds a another dimension of interaction, it's not better or worse, just different. Overall: There is noticable différence in character between everything in comfort and Sport plus/track mode, With the available bucket seat I think they are going to sell a shit ton of those, I can't see anything better as dual purpose car. Not everyone will buy it for the same reasons than I will but to me it is THE thing with wich I can do everything I want to do, kind of like the perfect girlfriend that you want to marry haha I was never really satisfied with my M2, the power was fine for me but I went trough 3 suspension setups to get it OK now, the DCT is great but I missed the connection of the M/T interaction and the involvement. I think I will be super happy this time. I ordered a 6 Speed M3 Oxide Grey II with buckets on the spot and this time it's gonna be used and enjoyed all year round !
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04-17-2021, 07:59 AM | #57 |
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Great video. I've never seen his videos but I will watch more. He made me more interested in the G80 then I was. My F80 only has 13k miles so I'm hang on to it for a while, but the all wheel drive will be a compelling next buy. When I can get one used, in a few years
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04-17-2021, 08:21 AM | #58 | |
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Great video! Love this kind of content. |
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04-17-2021, 09:15 AM | #59 | |
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04-17-2021, 12:24 PM | #60 |
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I think this sums up the banter back and forth between the generations. Styling aside this is it.
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04-24-2021, 05:10 PM | #61 | ||
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The difference lies in the fact that the DCT can make a WOT powershift and recuperate the inertia of the engine rpm drop to provide a momentary surge in acceleration. The ZF8 needs to briefly reduce engine torque during the shift to allow the planetary clutch pack to grab.
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04-24-2021, 05:58 PM | #62 | |
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It's faster to 60. It's faster through the quarter mile. It holds more G's. It brakes quicker. It goes around tracks faster. If the F80 is a sports car it must not be any good to be so thoroughly trounced by a GT car. But of course, that's nonsense. The F80 is a fantastic car...and the G80 is faster. There is no room for debate, and I have no idea how, after watching a video where people literally drive both cars and both say that the G80 is faster both in lines and in corners, that the F80 is the faster car. |
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04-24-2021, 07:10 PM | #63 | |
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They both say the G80 is quicker. The F80 is apparently "squigglier", but the consensus for both is that the G80 is faster. I have literally no idea how you watched that video and left with the impression that the F80 is faster. One of the very first things they say is that the G80 is crazy quick compared to it. |
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04-24-2021, 07:19 PM | #64 | |
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04-24-2021, 07:23 PM | #66 |
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In the rolling runs, I see the new M ahead. Not sure how the F80 is the better performer in that regard?
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