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      10-30-2020, 04:02 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I think Chris Harris was right in the idea that in a year's time it might grow on everyone and people will warm up to it. It is such a drastic change that it will take a little time, most of us have not even seen it in the flesh let alone rolling down the street.

If it is true what some are saying that Asian markets like larger grilles.

It might be as simple as China prefers larger grilles, the vocal US enthusiast appreciates a manual transmission, so let's appease our 2 largest markets.
Agree with this. For the longest time I thought that it was a massive mistake and that I'd probably end up going upmarket to an M8 if I was to stay with the brand, but then when the M4 renders with the M8 style bumper came out I realized that I really didn't like the M8 styling ends up not working nearly as well on this body. I think any color that breaks the lighting and highlights all the creases on these cars, like the frozen paints, are going to look absolutely wicked in person. I'd really love to see one in Silversone II.

Now, the thing that I still can't get around to liking, and this has bothered me on the M8 as well and translated into other models was the redesign of the kink. This interpretation of it just doesn't look BMW to me.
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      10-30-2020, 05:20 PM   #46
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They are just using their iconic car to introduce the future EV large grill design language. Whether consumers like it or not.
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      10-31-2020, 03:20 AM   #47
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Even the mainland Chinese hate this 4000 pound pig.
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      10-31-2020, 10:37 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
If one is going to state you are betting on this not doing well, i think you should put your money where your mouth is and short the stock if you so firmly believe it otherwise you are leaving money on the table.

isn't electrification exactly what every single german auto mfg is doing? like you think Porsche and BMW CEOs looked at the performance of TSLA stock and been like nahhhhh lets only spend R&D money on ICU engines....meanwhile i4m has been spotted, audi has an etron, porsche has a taycan and is planning to electrify the cayman?

clearly people just want to use this forum to bitch instead of analyze and have good discussions...

edit: to be clear...the germans are way behind imo but they will catch up on electrification and in a few years, will sell better electric cars than TSLA, this is my position and full disclosure I am long on TSLA, VWG and BMW.
Ive seen you on multiple threads now and i have to say i agree with everything youre saying in each one.
You cant even find a thread to simply discuss the G80/82 without people bitching about the grill of a car they haven't seen in person. Mind you no one has driven it yet. Its aggravating to say the least, People need to think back to 2013 when the F80/82 was first revealed no one liked those either for many reason and now here we are. history and facts always repeat it self. Xdrive M340i outsell the RWD AWD M3/M4 will even do better than the F8X Generation i can promise that. now BMW will take some Audi owners, look how well the new M5 is doing M8 as well
You think the M8 is doing well?

Interesting, isn't it cancelled in 1/2 the world, can't say I've seen any of the coupe, GC or vert on the road. M5 is different but to me it feels the M8 is a great engineering exercise but it's not connected with customers. Most certainly brings in some much more glamorous competition for the money.
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      10-31-2020, 11:37 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
You think the M8 is doing well?

Interesting, isn't it cancelled in 1/2 the world, can't say I've seen any of the coupe, GC or vert on the road. M5 is different but to me it feels the M8 is a great engineering exercise but it's not connected with customers. Most certainly brings in some much more glamorous competition for the money.
Yea they just pulled it in North America or at least the states due to anemic sales.

The emphasis on competition for the money is I think a point BMW loyalists fail to realize that plays into the lack of strong sales in pricier larger BMWs is that after ~$80k or so you are competing with Porsches.
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      11-01-2020, 06:42 PM   #50
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I saw the new 430i this past weekend with M sport pack... granted it's not an M car but man there is something wrong with the side proportions of this car. As far as the front, it's not necessarily the grilles that turn me off but a weird feeling like something is just oddly missing or not quite there. Side by side with the 330i next to it, it was obvious something was just off.
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      11-01-2020, 11:39 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Silber View Post
Agree with this. For the longest time I thought that it was a massive mistake and that I'd probably end up going upmarket to an M8 if I was to stay with the brand, but then when the M4 renders with the M8 style bumper came out I realized that I really didn't like the M8 styling ends up not working nearly as well on this body. I think any color that breaks the lighting and highlights all the creases on these cars, like the frozen paints, are going to look absolutely wicked in person. I'd really love to see one in Silversone II.

Now, the thing that I still can't get around to liking, and this has bothered me on the M8 as well and translated into other models was the redesign of the kink. This interpretation of it just doesn't look BMW to me.
Its going to look bmw in the future though...like a previous post said this is all being done to line up with the i4 design. This just happens to be the first model that looks this way. I would say its the opposite of what people are thinking...they probably are trying to make sure the design cues line up with their future evs but at this moment in time it looks like they're trying to make an odd duck that stands out.
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      11-02-2020, 02:30 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I saw the new 430i this past weekend with M sport pack... granted it's not an M car but man there is something wrong with the side proportions of this car. As far as the front, it's not necessarily the grilles that turn me off but a weird feeling like something is just oddly missing or not quite there. Side by side with the 330i next to it, it was obvious something was just off.
There was a recent online video of a designer comparing the 4 series with the 3 series - particularly the side character lines. A key point was that the 3 series character lines were all connected - portraying strength, whereas the 4 series lines were disjointed and not aligned - leading to a lack of purpose and clarity in the side profile. It reminds me of your impression and aligns with my first, second (and subsequent) impressions about the 3 series being a much more coherent design than the 4 series.
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      11-02-2020, 12:33 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Yea they just pulled it in North America or at least the states due to anemic sales.

The emphasis on competition for the money is I think a point BMW loyalists fail to realize that plays into the lack of strong sales in pricier larger BMWs is that after ~$80k or so you are competing with Porsches.
Markus Flasch was very pompous at the M8 launch labeling it as a “Porsche 911turbo killer” while it falls significantly short of even matching it.
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      11-02-2020, 06:02 PM   #54
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Markus Flasch was very pompous at the M8 launch labeling it as a “Porsche 911turbo killer” while it falls significantly short of even matching it.
The M8 or heavy 2 door GT market is effectively non existent... it was at one point ruled by Aston Coupes for 150K and in the exotic realm, things like the Bentley GT.

Now BMW had this genius idea that making their M6 even more upmarket and giving it a price of $150K was a brilliant idea... except people at that price range expect almost an exotic GT or a thorough sports car like a 911... the M8 fits neither of these and this is also why Benz got out of the S class coupe asap... at that absurd weight people don't particularly care about weigh so why not just get something heavy like a 4 door s class, panamera or amg gt63.
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      11-15-2020, 08:07 PM   #55
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I am not a fan of the grill. I had an F80 that I loved but wanted something new. I was waiting to see the G80 and once I saw the front end, it did nothing for me. Despite the fact that it had a manual, I couldn't over look the front end. Ended up getting the F90 and haven't looked back.

For those that love the car, more props to you guys. But for me, performance aside, I need to love the design of the car. Hence I got the 2007 TLS and when they went the fugly grill the next generation, hopped on the M3 wagon and now with it going the same direction, moved onto M5.

To satisfy my manual need, I'll just pick up a 911 next year .
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      11-16-2020, 12:04 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
The M8 or heavy 2 door GT market is effectively non existent... it was at one point ruled by Aston Coupes for 150K and in the exotic realm, things like the Bentley GT.

Now BMW had this genius idea that making their M6 even more upmarket and giving it a price of $150K was a brilliant idea... except people at that price range expect almost an exotic GT or a thorough sports car like a 911... the M8 fits neither of these and this is also why Benz got out of the S class coupe asap... at that absurd weight people don't particularly care about weigh so why not just get something heavy like a 4 door s class, panamera or amg gt63.
Agreed but the M8 is beating everything in that price ranged except a 911 so maybe they wanted to steal those customers performance wise anyway
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      11-17-2020, 09:17 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by ia12 View Post
I am not a fan of the grill. I had an F80 that I loved but wanted something new. I was waiting to see the G80 and once I saw the front end, it did nothing for me. Despite the fact that it had a manual, I couldn't over look the front end. Ended up getting the F90 and haven't looked back.

For those that love the car, more props to you guys. But for me, performance aside, I need to love the design of the car. Hence I got the 2007 TLS and when they went the fugly grill the next generation, hopped on the M3 wagon and now with it going the same direction, moved onto M5.

To satisfy my manual need, I'll just pick up a 911 next year .
I am going this route myself and for the most part not considering the G80. I was thinking of an M8 if I could catch a great discount and they are out there but the M5 is a better car. Too much bitching and controversy over the G80 and has turned me against it. I like it but don't want a car where people are changing bumpers and dragging it on social media.
I can't imagine what it will do to resale.
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      11-24-2020, 04:33 PM   #58
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BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
Just trying to put things in prospective

How does BMW gonna attract young generation when compare with others?
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      11-25-2020, 12:59 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
Just trying to put things in prospective

How does BMW gonna attract young generation when compare with others?
It's not going to be with an X8 M
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      11-25-2020, 11:05 PM   #60
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This is a lame argument. The younger generation loves hideous cars? I'm 37, and I hate the new look. Am I too old? I can understand that they might need a bigger grill for cooling or whatever, but the new design is just as ugly as their new logo. They need to get rid of their lead designer and seriously revise the look of the car with the all wheel drive version or end up in the same boat as Honda with their new Accord.
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      11-25-2020, 11:21 PM   #61
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I'll add my 2 cents. I'm 40 and own an F80. I think that car is beautiful - even more so than even the older M3 generations that people go on and on about. The car of course has it's issues but its a damn fine looking automobile if you ask me.

The same cannot be said for the G80 - no amount of walking around, staring, looking at pictures etc will change that. I see the front and I think "WTF were they thinking".

'll be in the market for a new ride in the next 18 months or so - the G80 isn't even on the radar without a redesign of the front. On the other hand, I may just ride the f80 till the wheels fall off...
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      11-25-2020, 11:28 PM   #62
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Enlighten me, why are big grilles required for the G8X when this is not so for the M5?

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      11-25-2020, 11:41 PM   #63
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I'll add my 2 cents. I'm 40 and own an F80. I think that car is beautiful - even more so than even the older M3 generations that people go on and on about. The car of course has it's issues but its a damn fine looking automobile if you ask me.

The same cannot be said for the G80 - no amount of walking around, staring, looking at pictures etc will change that. I see the front and I think "WTF were they thinking".

'll be in the market for a new ride in the next 18 months or so - the G80 isn't even on the radar without a redesign of the front. On the other hand, I may just ride the f80 till the wheels fall off...
I agree. When my lease is up, I will either buy my F80 or would move on. I would only consider the F80 if the AWD version is as good as they say it is.
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      11-26-2020, 02:19 AM   #64
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Enlighten me, why are big grilles required for the G8X when this is not so for the M5?

M5 is a completely older demographic to the M3 I'd expect - probably whom have also owned other BMWs in the past. It's also not the brand icon that the M3 is to non bimmerphiles.
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      11-26-2020, 02:20 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by PVC View Post
This is a lame argument. The younger generation loves hideous cars? I'm 37, and I hate the new look. Am I too old? I can understand that they might need a bigger grill for cooling or whatever, but the new design is just as ugly as their new logo. They need to get rid of their lead designer and seriously revise the look of the car with the all wheel drive version or end up in the same boat as Honda with their new Accord.
I agree with you. Though my experience is the buyers coming to my F80 were younger and liked the louder design of the G8x over Mercedes. With the exhausts getting quieter the colours and designs have had to compensate.
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      11-26-2020, 02:31 AM   #66
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M5 is a completely older demographic to the M3 I'd expect - probably whom have also owned other BMWs in the past. It's also not the brand icon that the M3 is to non bimmerphiles.
Meaning cooling (the engine) is not a reason for the bigger grilles?
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