BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
G80 BMW M3 and M4 General Topics M3 (G80) and BMW M4 (G82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-19-2020, 09:46 AM   #1
Parabolica
Major
Canada
561
Rep
1,104
Posts

Drives: '18 M3 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Why I think the upcoming CS should be manual only

This is my case for why I think the next gen CS should be manual only:


- The F82/80 CS did not sell well at all in USA or Canada. BMWNA had to impose significant price reductions to get them off their lots. I believe that M enthusiasts will purchase a manual CS

- Per BMW, the CS is supposed to be a dual purpose street/track not a track dedicated vehicle like the CSL/GTS. Thus, lap-times are not as important and losing a tenth due to manual vs auto doesn’t really matter.

- Now that the DCT is gone, the ZF8 is definitely a less engaging transmission option, so a manual lines up better with the CS philosophy.

- If Porsche can spend the $$ to match a high HP vehicle to a manual transmission, so can BMW for the CS.

Discuss.
Appreciate 2
      10-19-2020, 09:51 AM   #2
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
7756
Rep
25,075
Posts

Drives: GOLFFRR cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states

iTrader: (4)

I can tell you from our figures that 8 out of every 10 M cars we sold were auto. Yes we do get people who want manuals however its very rare outside the forum community.

So from that perspective I would imagine BMW will almost never release a mass production car that would neglect most of their buyers. at the end of the day BMW is out to make money, they will always cater to bottom line over enthusiast thats just the way it is. If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make cents (sense)
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, PM ME FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Jimmy Miller:jmiller@stevethomasbmw.com Cell:805-509-2048
If you have any issues getting a hold of Jimmy M PLEASE PM me, I'm available everyday till 545pm!
Appreciate 11
Poochie5959.50
jmg9716.00
VetteGuy576.00
kyleb350206.00
Avaley586.00
JustChris12056.50
werdn220.00
m20e3087367.50
2011ninja522.00

      10-19-2020, 09:53 AM   #3
MomoM3
Major
MomoM3's Avatar
United_States
622
Rep
1,149
Posts

Drives: X7 M50i | M2 CS | X5 35i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lehigh Valley PA

iTrader: (3)

I would never buy an automatic M car. Save the manuals!
Appreciate 7
seis-speed1812.00
Poochie5959.50
zamboni747.00
peeej39.50
2011ninja522.00

      10-19-2020, 09:59 AM   #4
frankiebones
Lieutenant Colonel
frankiebones's Avatar
2179
Rep
1,687
Posts

Drives: M3 CS
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

I have a DCT F80 CS that I hate because it's not manual (it's my first and last non manual and at the time the F80 was out of production, my lease was up and I was 30k over the mile allotment, yada yada yada).

Yet the F8x CS is a beloved car by everyone else in our facebook group lol, all of whom can put aside that its not a 6MT.

Therefore, I am perhaps not the best person to opine on this subject.
__________________
M3 CS with M Perf Exhaust
Retired - Yas F80 - 6MT - Hex Stage 1 - MPHAS
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2020, 11:10 AM   #5
DecemberStorm
Private First Class
DecemberStorm's Avatar
Canada
153
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: B9 Audi S4
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

speaking of manual in Porsches... have you looked up the reviews on 718 GT4 and GTS 4.0 with the manual? The one and only complaint with it is the transmission and the horrible gearing. I recall reading about Porsche admitted more or less that they didn't have the budget to redevelop a manual just for the car.

I'd think for both BMW and Porsche keeping manual options is more about maintaining credibility and goodwill with certain enthusiasts than actual business justifications.

Hard to see BMW not offering auto in the G8X CS and above trims.. would be neat if they offer it as an option similar to manual being available on Porsche GT3 touring package... and the F8X CS did not sell well not because it didn't have manual, it was simply overpriced and at the end of the day still a M4. Folks shopping in the >120k sports car category (CAD) would not look this way typically
__________________
Upcoming: G82 M4C - SPY/YMB, 826M Black, Carbon Buckets, Carbon Inlay, Prem Pack, Driver Assist
Current: B9 S4 - Navarra Blue/ Rotor Grey, Technik, Sport Diff, Driver Assist, HUD, Carbon Atlas
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2020, 11:28 AM   #6
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6627
Rep
19,019
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

The manual transmission is not being offered in all markets, so any models sitting above the Competition model will have the automatic transmission.

With near certainty, no future model with the manual transmission will be more powerful than the base model. However, it is at least possible that they could take some parts from a future CS model and put them on a special limited manual transmission model. It almost surely wouldn't be called "CS", but a name is arbitrary anyway.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2020, 03:33 PM   #7
kimchee411
Private
24
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: Porsche 997 C2, Macan S
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (0)

You think the solution to poor CS sales is to make it manual only?
Appreciate 6
Transfer3434.50
Avaley586.00
M-SP0RT545.50
KoenG472.50
khanyam4602.50

      10-19-2020, 10:24 PM   #8
VetteGuy
Lieutenant
576
Rep
446
Posts

Drives: Arctic Race Blue M440iX
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: St. Louis, MO. USA

iTrader: (0)

Chevrolet eliminated the MT in the new Corvette C8. It’s now DCT only. Caused a little angst among MT fanatics but sales are still through the roof.

The MT is most likely on borrowed time industry wide, so best wishes to everyone who wants to get one while they can. Hopefully BMW hangs on to them for a while yet.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2020, 10:45 PM   #9
Transfer
Brigadier General
Transfer's Avatar
United_States
3435
Rep
4,969
Posts

Drives: M340i, X3M Comp
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Issaquah, WA

iTrader: (1)

I would never buy a manual again. So there.
Appreciate 1
      10-19-2020, 11:30 PM   #10
ABenChod
Private
ABenChod's Avatar
United_States
145
Rep
93
Posts

Drives: 2020 M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
I believe that M enthusiasts will purchase a manual CS
Not for a ridiculous base price of 104k.

Quote:
If Porsche can spend the $$ to match a high HP vehicle to a manual transmission, so can BMW for the CS.
Porsche has the PDK-only GT2RS and GT3RS. So, why can't BMW have a DCT-only GTS and CS? Porsche has a manual GT3. BMW still offers manual M3/4 base and competition. BMW should've spent money on a faster DCT rather than on a boring ZF8.
__________________
2020 ///M4 CS | Goodridge stainless steel brake lines | Bridgestone Potenza RE71R 265/35/19, 295/30/20 | Ground Control camber plates | PFC11 brake pads.
Appreciate 1
zamboni747.00

      10-24-2020, 11:14 AM   #11
Avaley
Lieutenant
Avaley's Avatar
586
Rep
468
Posts

Drives: f32 bm3 stg2 & 982 GT4
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
I can tell you from our figures that 8 out of every 10 M cars we sold were auto. Yes we do get people who want manuals however its very rare outside the forum community.

So from that perspective I would imagine BMW will almost never release a mass production car that would neglect most of their buyers. at the end of the day BMW is out to make money, they will always cater to bottom line over enthusiast thats just the way it is. If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make cents (sense)
+1. Manual lovers are the enthusiasts that will speak up here but unfortunately talk doesn't equal to sales.

Manuals are dying because the demand isn't there.
Appreciate 2
GOLFFRR7756.00
khanyam4602.50

      10-25-2020, 09:47 AM   #12
John4C
New Member
11
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: Misc
Join Date: May 2020
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
I can tell you from our figures that 8 out of every 10 M cars we sold were auto. Yes we do get people who want manuals however its very rare outside the forum community.

So from that perspective I would imagine BMW will almost never release a mass production car that would neglect most of their buyers. at the end of the day BMW is out to make money, they will always cater to bottom line over enthusiast thats just the way it is. If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make cents (sense)
Can’t argue with the data here but the CS May attract a different buyer profile.
I’ve been watching the M2 CS A bit and interestingly about 75% of confirmed buyers seem to be selecting 6MT. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/po...ts&pollid=9947

Granted that is only reflective of about 10% of US allocations and forum buyers will tend to skew 6MT, but it wouldn’t be crazy if the eventual manual take rate on those was around 50%.

I think a special version will get more 6MT interest because it’s fundamentally the enthusiast version
Appreciate 0
      10-25-2020, 09:55 AM   #13
Parabolica
Major
Canada
561
Rep
1,104
Posts

Drives: '18 M3 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
+1. Manual lovers are the enthusiasts that will speak up here but unfortunately talk doesn't equal to sales.

Manuals are dying because the demand isn't there.
I could argue that for the f80/82, many were "forced" into buying the dct version as they were the ones available on the lots. I'd like to see the numbers dct vs manual for the customer orders.
Appreciate 3
JustChris12056.50
GMe90331.00

      10-25-2020, 01:10 PM   #14
Transfer
Brigadier General
Transfer's Avatar
United_States
3435
Rep
4,969
Posts

Drives: M340i, X3M Comp
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Issaquah, WA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
+1. Manual lovers are the enthusiasts that will speak up here but unfortunately talk doesn't equal to sales.

Manuals are dying because the demand isn't there.
I could argue that for the f80/82, many were "forced" into buying the dct version as they were the ones available on the lots. I'd like to see the numbers dct vs manual for the customer orders.
If someone settled for a DCT because it was on the lot with no 6MT options, they didn't really care about buying a manual to begin with. I wouldn't buy a manual transmission car if that was all that was available, I'd find the DCT or order one. And yes I can drive manual. Settling one way or the other is being hasty IMO.
Appreciate 3
VetteGuy576.00
SYT_Shadow6327.50
khanyam4602.50

      10-26-2020, 10:06 AM   #15
Avaley
Lieutenant
Avaley's Avatar
586
Rep
468
Posts

Drives: f32 bm3 stg2 & 982 GT4
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post
You think the solution to poor CS sales is to make it manual only?
yea seeing as the top of the line G8x comp is AWD mainly for traction i don't think they are thinking the even lighter hardcore version will be manual and +1 to the above, doesn't make business sense.
__________________
430i xDrive Coupé, B48 bm3 stg 2, ZF8HP50 xHP stg 3, ER catless dp, ER chargepipe kit, awe midpipe & axleback touring straight pipe exhaust, injen intake & inlet pipe
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2020, 08:27 AM   #16
Karmic Man
Major
Karmic Man's Avatar
Australia
1486
Rep
1,457
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: World

iTrader: (0)

The 1M was manual only and it sold way better than any PDK E92 M3 or PDK 135i when they were available in the showroom!

The main thing is packaging.

If they can do some unique engineering on the more focused variant with a manual gearbox and make it very desirable but pricing it below the CS, it will absolutely sell. The point is the they seems to have lost the ability to create something new and exciting for customers to charge into a showroom and tell the sales guy to 'just shut up and take my money'!
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2020, 09:51 AM   #17
M-SP0RT
Captain
M-SP0RT's Avatar
United_States
546
Rep
781
Posts

Drives: 335i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

You buy a TV or Smartphone today and it does not even come with a manual anymore! Everything is digital. Same with cars going auto.

At least with auto we can still use the shifter or paddles to change gears and hold a gear at redline etc... When all new cars are electric with no (or 2 speed) transmission it's going to be boring as hell
__________________
Waiting for the AWD G80 M3
Current Ride: '14 335i M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2020, 03:12 PM   #18
zamboni
I want to drive a Zamboni
zamboni's Avatar
United_States
747
Rep
5,074
Posts

Drives: 13 E93 M3 18 F80 M3 16 K71
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Monte Sereno, CA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
16 K71 F800GT  [0.00]
2018 F80 M3  [0.00]
2013 BMW E93 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
I could argue that for the f80/82, many were "forced" into buying the dct version as they were the ones available on the lots. I'd like to see the numbers dct vs manual for the customer orders.
I went with 6MT on my last F80 since we already had E93 with DCT, it's came down to personal choice beside you felt more connected to the vehicle when driving.
__________________
18 F80 Imola Red 6MT
16 K71 F800GT Montego Blue
13 E93 M3 Melbourne Red
2000 E46,2006 E90,09 E82,13 E93 328i,14 F30 335i,18 F80 M3
My next vehicle would be a Zamboni
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2020, 02:33 AM   #19
karguy95
New Member
16
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

The same people who Yell Save the Manuals are the same people who still owns 2010's Manual cars and will never buy a New one. idk why this is still a topic to be honest it's 2020. Manuals are obsolete! there i said it .
"but its more engaging" "its more fun"

Listen do you still own the iphone 4? no you have the new iphones and new androids. the only reason manuels were created was because you had more control of the car and humans could shift faster than the current AT's its 2020 now its about performance and efficiency. Fun was just a side effect of MT's get with the times or go buy a 2021 Civic they will forever be Manual.

before i get any backlash i've been driving manual since i was 16 my first 4 cars was Manuel but it ended when i got a e92 M2 DCT and ive never looked back.

The reason the F8X CS did not sell well was because it was overpriced and not different from a M3/4 Comp thats it which someone already stated.
Appreciate 2
KoenG472.50
EXE46841.00

      10-29-2020, 01:47 PM   #20
Scorp!on
Private First Class
Switzerland
250
Rep
113
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 G80 (soon)
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by karguy95 View Post
The same people who Yell Save the Manuals are the same people who still owns 2010's Manual cars and will never buy a New one. idk why this is still a topic to be honest it's 2020. Manuals are obsolete! there i said it .
"but its more engaging" "its more fun"

Listen do you still own the iphone 4? no you have the new iphones and new androids. the only reason manuels were created was because you had more control of the car and humans could shift faster than the current AT's its 2020 now its about performance and efficiency. Fun was just a side effect of MT's get with the times or go buy a 2021 Civic they will forever be Manual.

before i get any backlash i've been driving manual since i was 16 my first 4 cars was Manuel but it ended when i got a e92 M2 DCT and ive never looked back.

The reason the F8X CS did not sell well was because it was overpriced and not different from a M3/4 Comp thats it which someone already stated.
Well I can only speak for me but the MT is like 80% of the reason why I go with BMW. Only one still selling this in this power/price range...
soooooo there are still people who buy them, new. As I did.

I don't care on who likes what, everyone has his taste...but I thank BMW for still producing an MT and for that I go for a G80.
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2020, 01:49 PM   #21
M3_WC
Brigadier General
923
Rep
3,557
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
- If Porsche can spend the $$ to match a high HP vehicle to a manual transmission, so can BMW for the CS.
Porsche can spend the $$ to continue development of dual clutch to match their high HP cars. Imagine that.
Appreciate 0
      10-30-2020, 07:49 AM   #22
Karmic Man
Major
Karmic Man's Avatar
Australia
1486
Rep
1,457
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: World

iTrader: (0)

If the M4 doesn't have the 6MT many people would look at the Nissan GTR instead...slightly more expensive but more power (Track edition has 600hp), DCT, lighter weight and track proven AWD system.

Why buy the M4 unless one just want the badge
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 AM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST