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      09-28-2020, 08:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
I'm one of these. This will be my first *brand new* M3 purchase and I'm jumping for a manual since no DCT is available. When driving, the 8AT won't cut it for me in the emotion department. I've used it before and struggle to see what tuning can be done to make it feel the way I want.

This set up may actually increase the relative 6MT take rate unless the car is hamstrung in some other way.
And this is my worry about the AT. I want to replace my current EV which is perfectly fine but has zero in terms of the emotion department for me. The question is if I should go in the completely opposite direction with the 6MT or take the AT, which will still be worlds different/better from an EV. I don't really care about the additional power or straight-line acceleration of the Comp. I want to enjoy driving again. But I also want to learn how to track and I'm not sure I can handle a manual. Maybe I should get the M2 DCT huh?
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      09-28-2020, 10:28 PM   #46
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And this is my worry about the AT. I want to replace my current EV which is perfectly fine but has zero in terms of the emotion department for me. The question is if I should go in the completely opposite direction with the 6MT or take the AT, which will still be worlds different/better from an EV. I don't really care about the additional power or straight-line acceleration of the Comp. I want to enjoy driving again. But I also want to learn how to track and I'm not sure I can handle a manual. Maybe I should get the M2 DCT huh?
6MT with autorev match will be a doll at the track. Takes all the difficulty out of it.
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      09-28-2020, 11:25 PM   #47
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From my point of view, I don't feel cheated by the lack of a competition model and I don't care which AT is offered. I drive a 340 now and it has plenty of power for my needs. I expect to get an M3 whenever I am ready to replace my car, not because I want more power or because I think the M3 looks cool, but I just prefer the manual transmission. I am grateful that there is one model available. I don't mind the rev matching and for me, living in San Francisco, the clutch delay valve is a help when I need to back up a steep hill to get into a tight parking space.
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      09-29-2020, 01:10 AM   #48
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From my point of view, I don't feel cheated by the lack of a competition model and I don't care which AT is offered. I drive a 340 now and it has plenty of power for my needs. I expect to get an M3 whenever I am ready to replace my car, not because I want more power or because I think the M3 looks cool, but I just prefer the manual transmission. I am grateful that there is one model available. I don't mind the rev matching and for me, living in San Francisco, the clutch delay valve is a help when I need to back up a steep hill to get into a tight parking space.
Exactly my thoughts, I drive a turboupgraded 335i, but im looking for a manual transmission to complete the driving experience.

Though a 992 GT3 is coming next year too, Not sure if i should stretch the budget that much for a life-time car.

I'm waiting for my dealer to get info from BMW as he says we might not get approval for manual builds in middle-east.
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      09-29-2020, 10:16 AM   #49
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Horsepower jockeys crack me up. 500hp isn't enough. They want fast n furious. 10s seconds or less 1/4 mile and roll races on the highway like the 2000s. Tunes. Overnight parts. Race wars.

I test drove the new 992 before deciding it wasn't for me. That car was so fast that it was boring to drive. I couldn't even ring out the engine, it's just instant illegal speeds. Can't even have fun. I've been through this with motorcycles as well.

I want a balanced and engaging road car. Probably part of the reason they detuned the engine with the 6MT is for balance and control. The ZF can be tuned and calibrated along with the AWD system for all kinds of control. The 6MT probably transfers power more directly anyway. Weight savings, ect. I'm totally cool with the power specs on the 6MT, I'm happy it's offered and it will probably end up being the one everyone wants in the end.
Great post. I couldn't help but shake my head when people are saying a base M3/4 is "handicapped". The car still has more than enough power to send you to straight to jail without trying that hard.

I have no giant desire to have F90 M5 type power available to me as I find it personally unusable and not enjoyable. So the base one with the magic 400/400 (most likely to the wheels) is plenty fast. I have literally 0 problem with the way my E92 M3 drives with its apparently gutless engine. If I wanted light to light numbers, I'd just consider a Tesla 3 Performance and call it a day, but clearly I'm not.

Not only am I grateful for the 3 pedals, but I'm also grateful that BMW didn't actually "handicap" the car by not being able to order fun options like the carbon buckets on a base car.
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      09-29-2020, 10:31 AM   #50
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Great post. I couldn't help but shake my head when people are saying a base M3/4 is "handicapped". The car still has more than enough power to send you to straight to jail without trying that hard.

I have no giant desire to have F90 M5 type power available to me as I find it personally unusable and not enjoyable. So the base one with the magic 400/400 (most likely to the wheels) is plenty fast. I have literally 0 problem with the way my E92 M3 drives with its apparently gutless engine. If I wanted light to light numbers, I'd just consider a Tesla 3 Performance and call it a day, but clearly I'm not.

Not only am I grateful for the 3 pedals, but I'm also grateful that BMW didn't actually "handicap" the car by not being able to order fun options like the carbon buckets on a base car.
It's going to have ~450whp as the CS has 435whp. That is a crapton. Plenty of power.

I agree it's wonderful that you can get the manual with all the goodies you'd like vs having a stripped down option set.
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      09-29-2020, 12:13 PM   #51
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If I wanted light to light numbers, I'd just consider a Tesla 3 Performance and call it a day, but clearly I'm not.
This is a really strong argument for the manual. A Tesla 3 Performance is faster and costs less. But it will be there 10 years from now and beyond. That may not be the case with a manual M3/M4.
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      09-29-2020, 12:14 PM   #52
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480 HP is more than enough for me (a tune can increase this anyways)
Gimme an M4 with 6spd, carbon buckets and as few options as possible....I dunno which color yet. Lol
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      09-29-2020, 12:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Great post. I couldn't help but shake my head when people are saying a base M3/4 is "handicapped". The car still has more than enough power to send you to straight to jail without trying that hard.

I have no giant desire to have F90 M5 type power available to me as I find it personally unusable and not enjoyable. So the base one with the magic 400/400 (most likely to the wheels) is plenty fast. I have literally 0 problem with the way my E92 M3 drives with its apparently gutless engine. If I wanted light to light numbers, I'd just consider a Tesla 3 Performance and call it a day, but clearly I'm not.

Not only am I grateful for the 3 pedals, but I'm also grateful that BMW didn't actually "handicap" the car by not being able to order fun options like the carbon buckets on a base car.
Ahh, so just confirming, we CAN order order the carbon bucket seats on a non-competition model ?

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      09-29-2020, 12:22 PM   #54
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Ahh, so just confirming, we CAN order order the carbon bucket seats on a non-competition model ?

GM
I have no idea for US, but I certainly hope so.

I was playing on the Canadian configurator to see all the color combos, and at least there, you can order the base model with carbon buckets as a standalone option, or part of the more expensive Carbon Package which includes the seats and all the exterior bits.
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      09-29-2020, 12:26 PM   #55
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Keep in mind, the 470hp will probably be WHP Numbers as BMW naturally underrates. So this is a 510-520HP stock 6MT car. That's insane.
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      09-29-2020, 02:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I have no idea for US, but I certainly hope so.

I was playing on the Canadian configurator to see all the color combos, and at least there, you can order the base model with carbon buckets as a standalone option, or part of the more expensive Carbon Package which includes the seats and all the exterior bits.
Carbon package in Canada also includes the interior CF trim. At $8,500CAD it is pricey, but offers decent value since when ordered individually, the CF options add up to $10,500CAD (5,000 exterior CF trim + 1,500 interior CF trim + 4,000 CF sport seats).
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      09-29-2020, 02:40 PM   #57
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Carbon package in Canada also includes the interior CF trim. At $8,500CAD it is pricey, but offers decent value since when ordered individually, the CF options add up to $10,500CAD (5,000 exterior CF trim + 1,500 interior CF trim + 4,000 CF sport seats).
Expensive but super cool
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      09-29-2020, 03:11 PM   #58
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To respond to the OP, I find it very hard to believe that BMW would waste R&D and production setup money to market a product they purposefully want to fail. If they wanted to "kill" the 6MT, they would simply not have offered it.

IMO, they still want to cater to that small niche of MT enthusiast, but they did it in the most economical manner given their assumed low take rate. It's all a question of "business case". We should just relish in the fact that BMW is still offering the 6MT option.
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      10-08-2020, 11:25 PM   #59
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For the record - I'm probably still getting one, and I don't 100% hate the new grill. For those of you posting that the F80 was "too powerful" for the road or the track straight from the factory. . . Lol. It's a mildly fast car, nothing more.

First and second gear were both a little short, and traction certainly wasn't great at low speeds, but that car really needed a tune to wake it up.

And yes, I get it. I tune all my cars and I will tune this one too. . . I just think starting on a level playing field would have been nice. As noted, manuals are slower anyway. . . There is no need to handicap them.
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      10-09-2020, 07:29 AM   #60
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This is really not that surprising; when it comes to BMW OEM Performance "tunes" - for some strange reason, the automatic transmission are always allotted more power than the manuals 🤷🏻

I couldn't care less, I would take a 100hp haircut, just for a privilege of a bonafide clutch pedal


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      10-09-2020, 08:40 AM   #61
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For the record - I'm probably still getting one, and I don't 100% hate the new grill. For those of you posting that the F80 was "too powerful" for the road or the track straight from the factory. . . Lol. It's a mildly fast car, nothing more.

First and second gear were both a little short, and traction certainly wasn't great at low speeds, but that car really needed a tune to wake it up.

And yes, I get it. I tune all my cars and I will tune this one too. . . I just think starting on a level playing field would have been nice. As noted, manuals are slower anyway. . . There is no need to handicap them.
A lot of detailed and well-thought-out responses to your original post you ignored here.
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      10-09-2020, 12:48 PM   #62
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Am I missing something, or has BMW very craftilly dealt the final blow to the manual that they've inevitably wanted to for some time?

For years we have heard about how the marketing and sales projections point to low use of manuals before they are actually ever sold, meaning that cars shouldn't ever be offered in this format in the first place.

Now we have an enthusiasts car, where things like performance, peak power, and acceleration really do matter. We have a platform from the F80 year where people openly said they would take a DCT over a 6MT because it was 2/10ths faster in the quarter mile. .

From here, with the G80 model lineup, BMW decides to launch the 6MT m3 once again, but only with significantly less power than the competition model, and not in the AWD variant.

It's inconceivable to think that 6MT sales won't be affected by people who want the fastest, most powerful version of the car, or people like me who need a daily that can comfortably handle rough winter commutes (currently in a b8.5 s4 6mt).

I don't see any reason for launching a manual version of this car in a crippled, less exciting format other than to forcibly generate market data that fraudulently shows that people prefer the automatic transmission due to take rates. In my humble opinion, this car is the culmination of everything the auto industry has been pushing the market towards for the last 10 years. . . .

When you launch a dumbed down version of an "enthusiasts" car for the enthusiasts, you all but force them to take the car you prefer that they buy in the first place.

It's like a shitty transparent psychological experiment.

Now inevitably the aftermarket will help with leveling the playing field on the crippled output of the 6mt. . . . While that may be enough for me, I do not think it will be enough for most potential 6mt buyers. I also really want an M-AWD car! There are effectively no performance oriented awd manual 4wd cars offered anymore. Every time a used b8.5 5mt goes on the market it sells within a day, so I have a really hard time believing that nobody else wants this type of vehicle.

With the above stated - I haven't read enough yet to understand how exactly the competition delivers it's additional power. . . If it's just a tune or something then so be it. If it's more, then the 6mt is still considerably more hindered for after market modding as well.

From what I can tell, this competition package is absurdly cheap. . . <$3000. That's less than the delta to get a DCT car in the F80 variant. It's a no brainer for all but the most loyal diehard 6mt club, who live in a winter less region or who can afford a winter beater/daily or a garage queen.

Am I missing something, or has BMW really stabbed the 6MT in the back with a poisoned dagger right in front of our eyes while pretending to cater to our desires?
its an ecu tune. you have what 100lbs on the automatic too. lighten the exhaust, single mass flywheel, ssk. will rev, sound great, and be lightest possible g80 m3 you can have.

besides what other 500hp manual sedan can you buy? i commuted in the winter in germany for 4 years with an M3. throw some sandbags in the trunk and mpsa's or swedish snow tires. you will be fine.
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      10-09-2020, 01:18 PM   #63
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its an ecu tune. you have what 100lbs on the automatic too. lighten the exhaust, single mass flywheel, ssk. will rev, sound great, and be lightest possible g80 m3 you can have.

besides what other 500hp manual sedan can you buy? i commuted in the winter in germany for 4 years with an M3. throw some sandbags in the trunk and mpsa's or swedish snow tires. you will be fine.
Exactly

For winter driving you just need winter tires. I've driven through so many blizzards in M3s, all you need are proper winter tires. Which I may add, should be mandatory regardless of how many driven wheels you have.
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      10-11-2020, 02:03 PM   #64
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Can't agree with this post more. Need 6MT competition. I just hope that this 6MT is better than the previous models. The F8x's was an improvement over the E9x's but still, not smooth, still feel rough going from 1st to 2nd at times.
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      10-11-2020, 02:29 PM   #65
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Can't agree with this post more. Need 6MT competition. I just hope that this 6MT is better than the previous models. The F8x's was an improvement over the E9x's but still, not smooth, still feel rough going from 1st to 2nd at times.
I haven't read anything about BMW upgrading their MT between the F8X and G8X. It may be a direct lift and shift in this case. But I do agree with you, the 1-2 shift is very difficult to be smooth
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      10-11-2020, 04:35 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by endofanera7 View Post
Can't agree with this post more. Need 6MT competition. I just hope that this 6MT is better than the previous models. The F8x's was an improvement over the E9x's but still, not smooth, still feel rough going from 1st to 2nd at times.
I haven't read anything about BMW upgrading their MT between the F8X and G8X. It may be a direct lift and shift in this case. But I do agree with you, the 1-2 shift is very difficult to be smooth
1-2 shift in an E9X felt like 3 miles apart. The F80 was much batter.
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