[FC]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

fuck you snow.

Love it.

Unrelated but reminds me of my story... We had a bogus "state of emergency" in MA over a blizzard, but my mom had surgery and my dad could not clear the multi-foot high pile of snow left by the plow. So I drove across town on my LR4 with hakkas. It was a joke how easy that was.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by FC

Love it.

Unrelated but reminds me of my story... We had a bogus "state of emergency" in MA over a blizzard, but my mom had surgery and my dad could not clear the multi-foot high pile of snow left by the plow. So I drove across town on my LR4 with hakkas. It was a joke how easy that was.

The bummer with all this awesome stuff is, there aren't any ... that stuff just happens and you go with it.

It's probably really stupid ... but ... too late to quit now.

[firedown31]

Originally Posted by ObsidianX

The xDrive car drives like a snowmobile through anything icy or snow covered. I'm personally not willing to pass on that traction and stability and drive the M2 alone even with snow tires. Maybe I am alone, but I don't think so.

You're not alone. I've driven my M3 with snow tires (Michelin X-ice) the past 2 winters and have not had any major issues, but I never drove in anything over 6 inches. The M3 can handle that, but what about nor'easters that drop 2+ feet? I sure as hell am not driving my RWD M3 up into the mountains to go skiing. I've been considering a new car recently and everything AWD is currently winning.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by firedown31

You're not alone. I've driven my M3 with snow tires (Michelin X-ice) the past 2 winters and have not had any major issues, but I never drove in anything over 6 inches. The M3 can handle that, but what about nor'easters that drop 2+ feet? I sure as hell am not driving my RWD M3 up into the mountains to go skiing. I've been considering a new car recently and everything AWD is currently winning.

Not much can go through 2 feet, unless it is really cold, light and dry powder. In heavy snow you are pretty much limited by the density of the snow vs. your ground clearance. That said, AWD will always trump RWD once you add slope into the equation.

[FC]

Frankly, everything is becoming so wussified nowadays in MA that unless you are literally at or near a ski resort, it's unlikely you will need to "drive" through more than 3-4 inches of snow. Now, snow piles left by plows? Yeah, you are on your own with that one when you come home and find 2+ feet of (heavy, slushy) snow blocking your driveway.

Again, I'm lucky to have an LR4 with Hakkas, so I just raise the suspension for good measure and climb right through and park in my garage. For me, the F80
will mostly just see cold/ice but very little if any snow.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

My thought is the M2 CS will be the light and looney track special, the M2 will be the more track oriented dual-duty, and the M3/4 will be the GT with AWD, ZF transmission, etc, with the M5 being the autobahn rocket.

In short, we should all get used to the M3/4 being a GT car and stop with "m has lost their way" stuff while watching M ship record numbers of cars and release new models. M's "way" is what the bulk of dual-duty buyers want, not what the trackrat niche wants.

Is 3900lb+ a "dual-duty" car anymore? I tried tracking a 4000+ lb E63 wagon and AWD/550hp was fast and fun but you couldn't get away from the weight.. It couldn't keep up the pace for more long due to tire overheat

It seems more like M's way is what the bulk of street only users want, and M are signalling they will walk away from the trackrat niche and leave that niche to modify older m products

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Is 3900lb+ a "dual-duty" car anymore? . Imagine today's 3500lb RWD F80 and how it eats up front tires, and add +400lb and AWD.. I'm a little worried how that's going to play out at the track

I hope you are right about M2 CS.. I didn't catch any weight savings on the M4 CS other than making the door card have a pull strap instead of a handle

A key thing that I think is being missed here, is that at the start, M3 stood for a sedan that was truly competitive with pure sports car of its day. The <$100k pure sports car class is now filled with GT4 and Z06 caliber of cars, and hope I'm wrong but I don't see M2 CS or M4 CS being able to hang with a C7 Z06

I think the Camaro ZL1 1LE is actually carrying "4 seats car that is competitive with pure sports cars" torch better than the F8X, despite BMW having a strong hand in inventing that niche

You make some very very valid points. That ZL1 1LE is damn impressive. This is how I look at it, when other car manufactures make amazing cars that beat the M3/4 for less money, then that pushes BMW (hopefully) to make a better car.

At the end of the day, it is a great time to be alive as a car enthusiast. At least that is my opinion.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

You make some very very valid points. That ZL1 1LE is damn impressive. This is how I look at it, when other car manufactures make amazing cars that beat the M3/4 for less money, then that pushes BMW (hopefully) to make a better car.

Hope you're right!

BMW seems to be all business now and with the all electric X3 and the X3M type of cars coming, not to mention the M sport, M performance things everywhere, that we are in the era of ///Marketing, and it might be worth hedging your bets and buying a mint E46 M3



EDIT: 3900lb AWD M3 that's all electric with 500hp would be a pretty ok way for M to become a street only car in my book!

[Spike Spiegel]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I know the feeling: I used to have a tuned B6 S4 with nokian hakkas; that thing was a snow monster. Once they shut down minneapolis for a horrible storm and my wife was stuck downtown (she admitted it was dumb to stay) - i drove through unplowed roads for a 40 mile round trip in 1-2 feet of snow. Snow plows would drive across the roads I was on and I would punch it and blast through both berms rrrrRRRRROOOOORRRRR BOOM-BOOM!. Did that for 2-1/2 hours and burned 1/2 tank of gas and a full tank of windshield wiper fluid ... with the V8 roaring the whole time. It was un-fucking-real.

And, on the return trip, it was the one time my wife never said a word about my insane driving. She just read a book and let out an occasional scream.

fuck you snow.

Audi Quattro system is no joke. It's always cool to hear the different stories for people and the different cars they have driven.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I know the feeling: I used to have a tuned B6 S4 with nokian hakkas; that thing was a snow monster. Once they shut down minneapolis for a horrible storm and my wife was stuck downtown (she admitted it was dumb to stay) - i drove through unplowed roads for a 40 mile round trip in 1-2 feet of snow. Snow plows would drive across the roads I was on and I would punch it and blast through both berms rrrrRRRRROOOOORRRRR BOOM-BOOM!. Did that for 2-1/2 hours and burned 1/2 tank of gas and a full tank of windshield wiper fluid ... with the V8 roaring the whole time. It was un-fucking-real.

And, on the return trip, it was the one time my wife never said a word about my insane driving. She just read a book and let out an occasional scream.

fuck you snow.

We still have our old V8 B7 S4 in the driveway. It is indeed a blast to drive in winter. It will soon be replaced by a new RS3. I have to say, I am sad to see it go .

[BimmerBoomer]

Real roads aren't tracks: traction is often an unknown or very limited. If BMW can keep the weight down to say 3700 pounds with the defeatable xDrive I would prefer that to 3540 pounds and RWD.

[Wills2]

I've always disliked the idea of AWD in a sporty car, I've owned Quattro Audi and VW Touaregs and xdrive BMWs and the system suits those non sporty cars.

However I ran in a tuned RS3 the other week and was astounded by the acceleration off the line, made my M3 feel limp wristed, IF M can keep the M dynamic and add the traction of AWD I'm all for it.

I caveat that statement with: The way the RS3 went into a corner was awful and I wouldn't swap the traction for such a piss poor feel and understeer BUT if M can walk a fine line then it might just work.

[///M4TT]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

I really don't care either way as long as: 1) it's just as fun or more fun to drive vs the F8x; and 2) it can put power down at least equally as well or better than current gen ZCP.

If the car has increased power and stays RWD - it needs to be able to put the power down, otherwise the traditional benefits of RWD are basically offset.

AWD that defaults to RWD, and only sends power to the front wheels when needed is very intriguing. As long as measures are taken to offset the extra weight of AWD, and the above other criteria are met - I'm in favor of it!

...and AWD is the default at launch!

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by ///M4TT

...and AWD is the default at launch!

Originally Posted by ///M4TT

...and AWD is the default at launch!

I like that idea...especially in the winter or on wet roads...

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I've always disliked the idea of AWD in a sporty car, I've owned Quattro Audi and VW Touaregs and xdrive BMWs and the system suits those non sporty cars.

However I ran in a tuned RS3 the other week and was astounded by the acceleration off the line, made my M3 feel limp wristed, IF M can keep the M dynamic and add the traction of AWD I'm all for it.

I caveat that statement with: The way the RS3 went into a corner was awful and I wouldn't swap the traction for such a piss poor feel and understeer BUT if M can walk a fine line then it might just work.

Originally Posted by ///M4TT

...and AWD is the default at launch!

Originally Posted by Wills2

I've always disliked the idea of AWD in a sporty car, I've owned Quattro Audi and VW Touaregs and xdrive BMWs and the system suits those non sporty cars.

However I ran in a tuned RS3 the other week and was astounded by the acceleration off the line, made my M3 feel limp wristed, IF M can keep the M dynamic and add the traction of AWD I'm all for it.

I caveat that statement with: The way the RS3 went into a corner was awful and I wouldn't swap the traction for such a piss poor feel and understeer BUT if M can walk a fine line then it might just work.

We shall see if in further reviews whether or not BMW accomplished this fine-line balance on the F90 M5... assuming BMW was successful on the F90, then a 500 lb. lighter G80 should be able to pull it off all the better!

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

I think it will be here next gen and the M2 will remain the last RWD only M car.

I also think this.

M5 performance seems on another level now. Next M3/4 S58 and 470Hp and able to put it down will be fantastic I hope.

[kyrix1st]

Front heavy M is no longer an M but a cleverer variant of Audi RS. There's simply no way to achieve 5:5 balance with a heavy ass center shaft, transfer box and 8 speed Zfat unless you put a 50kg battery in the trunk which makes car heavier all together.
Put R&D on better aero and we have a lightweight high HP FR sports car.

[Powerslide]

As far as RWD vs. AWD - I really don't care, as long as:

1) the new generation puts the power down even better than current F8x gen;
2) next gen is faster; and
3) has better driving dynamics (if RWD) than current gen, and equal or greater driving dynamics if AWD.

[Han0115]

Do you guys think the new G80 will have X-Drive, Sport X-Drive, and Rear wheel drive options just like the M5 F90?

[uniqueMR]

X-Drive

[JMon]

I wouldn't buy another RWD M3.
It is AWD or not another M3
We NEED AWD to be fast in the real world at this point.

If I want a RWD track car, I'd just get an M2; Besides at this point I think the M2 is the new M3 and the M3 is the old M5

[danniexi]

i'd much rather have a much lighter M3 with rear wheel steering vs x-drive.

M3 doesnt need more power. it needs less weight. rear wheel steering will counteract the ever growing wheelbase (which has grown too much imo).