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      11-26-2020, 07:39 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
Reasonable theory, but we are going to have to look at sales figures later to confirm/deny. The new grill could hurt or help sales, its too soon to know
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      11-26-2020, 07:46 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Markus Flasch was very pompous at the M8 launch labeling it as a "Porsche 911[SIZE="1"]turbo[/SIZE] killer" while it falls significantly short of even matching it.
The M8 or heavy 2 door GT market is effectively non existent... it was at one point ruled by Aston Coupes for 150K and in the exotic realm, things like the Bentley GT.

Now BMW had this genius idea that making their M6 even more upmarket and giving it a price of $150K was a brilliant idea... except people at that price range expect almost an exotic GT or a thorough sports car like a 911... the M8 fits neither of these and this is also why Benz got out of the S class coupe asap... at that absurd weight people don't particularly care about weigh so why not just get something heavy like a 4 door s class, panamera or amg gt63.
The issue with the 8 series is Tesla Model S competition too. People in that price range are looking for sustainable cars. Same reason that Porsche Panamera is not doing so well
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      11-26-2020, 09:14 AM   #69
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Meaning cooling (the engine) is not a reason for the bigger grilles?
Nope. More than a third of the kidney grille area is blocked by the bumper structure. That grille design is for looks only.
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      11-26-2020, 09:57 AM   #70
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I showed the picture of the front end of the new M3 to my Japanese girlfriend and she started laughing and telling me it looks like Mr. Ton (aka Sh*tty boss) from Aggretsuko It's growing on her though after about 30 minutes so I may have a chance.

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      12-01-2020, 02:33 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
I agree with you. Though my experience is the buyers coming to my F80 were younger and liked the louder design of the G8x over Mercedes. With the exhausts getting quieter the colours and designs have had to compensate.
I think the exhaust sound is defined by the market as in they have fewer limitations in the US than they do in Europe. I am not sure how it is in Australia.

As for the looks, I don't think anyone would have an issue with a flashier look if it was done right. Right now it looks like an angry beaver showing his oversized teeth.
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      12-01-2020, 05:12 PM   #72
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I agree with you. Though my experience is the buyers coming to my F80 were younger and liked the louder design of the G8x over Mercedes. With the exhausts getting quieter the colours and designs have had to compensate.
I think the exhaust sound is defined by the market as in they have fewer limitations in the US than they do in Europe. I am not sure how it is in Australia.

As for the looks, I don't think anyone would have an issue with a flashier look if it was done right. Right now it looks like an angry beaver showing his oversized teeth.
Agree re looks. I think they've gone for attention and not a high quality design that resonates. Attention grabbing works in the immediate term but quickly fades over time where quality design prevails. No doubt future designs will pick up and re-install the essence of BMW design.
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      12-02-2020, 03:15 PM   #73
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The grill is subjective. You either hate it or love it. I love it. Looks aggressive and I don't care a bit about it being different from older generations. The grill has changed many times over time. In any case, where are the road and track tests???? I want to see how this baby performs!!!!!!
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      12-02-2020, 03:36 PM   #74
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I am not a fan of the grille, I dislike it, but I am willing to get black which makes it disappear. I can not be mad at BMW because they still gave us a manual 5 seat sedan.

The only agonizing thing to me, is I really like the looks of the M2cs, M5lci, M8, G20. Wish the M3 followed those cars in regards to the grilles.
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      12-02-2020, 06:56 PM   #75
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Those that are betting for or against the success of this car, we will never know the real reason. Historically vehicles sell better or worse than the prior gen due to macro economic variables, that is all. If the world economy is strong, the car will sell well, if the markets they rely on are weak, sales will be weak. The other factor is how much vehicles will be discounted or not to move cars. You not only would have to look at sales vs prior gen, you also would need to look at sales vs the comp set and sales price as a percentage of say MSRP vs. prior gen and comp. This is the reason the Bangle 7 sold so well, even considering the design was not well received, we were in the middle of a massive financial bubble when the car was released.

The other issue is that there really is no other competition in the segment. AMG going with 4cyl is the end of the C63. I have spent hours upon hours looking into a 992 911, it becomes too big of a step up from a cost prospective (purchase price, standard maintenance, etc).

For me the options are either keep my F80 longer since it is barely driven and low mileage, or upgrade to a G80.
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      12-02-2020, 09:18 PM   #76
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3.5/10 thread. The damage control is strong but badly illustrated. Additional commentary (re: support) by others helps his case, but ultimately nowhere near enough (nor possible) to rectify this mistake.
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      12-02-2020, 09:23 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityLife View Post
Those that are betting for or against the success of this car, we will never know the real reason. Historically vehicles sell better or worse than the prior gen due to macro economic variables, that is all. If the world economy is strong, the car will sell well, if the markets they rely on are weak, sales will be weak. The other factor is how much vehicles will be discounted or not to move cars. You not only would have to look at sales vs prior gen, you also would need to look at sales vs the comp set and sales price as a percentage of say MSRP vs. prior gen and comp. This is the reason the Bangle 7 sold so well, even considering the design was not well received, we were in the middle of a massive financial bubble when the car was released.

The other issue is that there really is no other competition in the segment. AMG going with 4cyl is the end of the C63. I have spent hours upon hours looking into a 992 911, it becomes too big of a step up from a cost prospective (purchase price, standard maintenance, etc).

For me the options are either keep my F80 longer since it is barely driven and low mileage, or upgrade to a G80.
Upgrade??

Is it?
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      12-03-2020, 01:59 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I am not a fan of the grille, I dislike it, but I am willing to get black which makes it disappear. I can not be mad at BMW because they still gave us a manual 5 seat sedan.

The only agonizing thing to me, is I really like the looks of the M2cs, M5lci, M8, G20. Wish the M3 followed those cars in regards to the grilles.
I went from the F80 to the F87 CS and sidestepped the G80 in the process because of its design. That will buy me many more years to watch BMW's design evolve from inside the cabin of a very well designed and engineered machine.
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      12-03-2020, 03:43 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
Ive stated lots of times, ever since we first saw the launch/spy car. A lot of people who complain about the grill will still end up getting one. Yes there is some hate and that's totally cool and I respect that, but as you can see as time goes on more and more on here are changing their mind.
This is me. I did and still complain about the grill, but just this past weekend put a deposit down to get inline to order the AWD. The rest of the car just looks so good, and if you are really looking for a car (4 door) in this category I think your options are limited.
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      12-03-2020, 08:27 PM   #80
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Everything but the front will look great in M3 guise with widened arches, etc and the performance will win people over on its own but there was no reason for BMW to have to make it this hard to like the car design. Hearing people say "I'll get a dark color to hide the design" is sad. Any decent kidney grille and they would have lines for forever.
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      12-06-2020, 01:01 PM   #81
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I might be in the minority among BMW enthusiasts but I actually like the new grille. It's an evolution of the company. Hard core enthusiasts are a small percentage of the clientele and clearly BMW want to reach out to the other 99% out there. It's a radical change for sure so kudos to BMW for being unafraid to rock the boat.

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      12-06-2020, 09:25 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
I went from the F80 to the F87 CS and sidestepped the G80 in the process because of its design. That will buy me many more years to watch BMW's design evolve from inside the cabin of a very well designed and engineered machine.
Evolve to what? full EV because that's the future and more disappointing to me than any M car they make today. Future won't be brighter if all we have to look forward to is EV. Design then is irrelevant at least to me. I am sure then, y'all will be reminiscing about how great the G80/G82 were and wished you could still buy one new.

When the E90/92 M cars debuted many were outraged due to engine choice and today you find people proclaiming how great a car it was. Same will be said of this new Gen M3/M4 cars in some future timeline.
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      12-06-2020, 09:54 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
I went from the F80 to the F87 CS and sidestepped the G80 in the process because of its design. That will buy me many more years to watch BMW's design evolve from inside the cabin of a very well designed and engineered machine.
Evolve to what? full EV because that's the future and more disappointing to me than any M car they make today. Future won't be brighter if all we have to look forward to is EV. Design then is irrelevant at least to me. I am sure then, y'all will be reminiscing about how great the G80/G82 were and wished you could still buy one new.

When the E90/92 M cars debuted many were outraged due to engine choice and today you find people proclaiming how great a car it was. Same will be said of this new Gen M3/M4 cars in some future timeline.
I'm not a fan of current EVs but the Taycan and some other emerging models seem to offer a glimmer of hope that not everything in front of us will be worse than what came before.
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      Yesterday, 09:29 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
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Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
yea but the issue is the marketing is trash. Who are they appealing to again? 20-something year -old's during a pandemic when many of the target demo are losing employment, many of which have already been saddled with student loan debt and are underemployed? Doesn't seem like good marketing.

I don't think young people care about german enthusiast cars in general, its all Elon and Tesla, and no amount of targeted marketing is going to reverse that trend. They just did themselves a disservice with that target demographic. Because there aren't that many young people that have an extra 80K-90K laying around.

And I'm not counting Silicon Valley, because they are electric focused anyway.
not 100% true. Some of us support elon and TSLA and think electrification makes sense from a business standpoint, and traded a fraction of our gains from TSLA for a german car.

and speaking with my local BMW dealer...youngest buyer was late 30s and most people are 50+ buying / preordering for their retirement car.

i also work in silicon valley. not all of us are electric loving hippies
+1 just sold a few TSLA shares myself for a G82 M4, if Elon only knew 😂
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      Yesterday, 10:25 AM   #85
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Well for me it's a no go this time of the M3/4 but not for grill reasons.

I always love a good laugh at any thread where the statement is 'yeah BMW know better'.

No $hit I wonder if they just fluked their way to a multi billion million trillion profit business.

I'm sure it's reassuring for them to have the threads supper though
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      Yesterday, 07:58 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for him.
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