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View Poll Results: My choice for a G8X alternative will be a....
Mercedes 52 11.11%
Porsche 214 45.73%
Audi 39 8.33%
TESLA 35 7.48%
Chevrolet Corvette C8 45 9.62%
Other (..be specific) 83 17.74%
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      01-27-2020, 02:31 PM   #177
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I still love the GTR and don't really need to see a change in its iconic look. Don't want a huge change in the 911 looks either but that could be because of my advanced age
GTR has definitely a new price 160K. WTF.
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I still love the GTR and don't really need to see a change in its iconic look. Don't want a huge change in the 911 looks either but that could be because of my advanced age
GTR has definitely a new price 160K. WTF.
That's not quite right— I've ordered a '20 premium for 115k. The new Nizmos are an alarming 210k and the track edition gtr about 145k. The anniversary edition premium are now selling same as new premium.
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      01-27-2020, 03:12 PM   #178
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Talking alternatives, have anyone seen the M5/G30 lci launch date and or SOP?

Edit: ynguldun has it covered: SOP July 2020.

Last edited by solstice; 01-27-2020 at 03:28 PM..
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      01-28-2020, 03:27 PM   #179
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      02-10-2020, 12:58 PM   #180
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My wife and I stopped by the local Porsche dealer again and then went to BMW as well. Turns out she likes the 8 series. I’m not a big fan myself ( too big for a 2 door and a bit soft looking) but It’s worth to schedule a test drive for her before we go further with the P-car negotiations I guess. Anyone here who has driven the 8? Is it as soggy feeling as the 5 series ( except the M5 )?
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      02-10-2020, 01:46 PM   #181
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My wife and I stopped by the local Porsche dealer again and then went to BMW as well. Turns out she likes the 8 series. I'm not a big fan myself ( too big for a 2 door and a bit soft looking) but It's worth to schedule a test drive for her before we go further with the P-car negotiations I guess. Anyone here who has driven the 8? Is it as soggy feeling as the 5 series ( except the M5 )?
I drove the M850i Coupe at the M Town Tour/Test Drive, and personally it was my least favorite vehicle of the bunch - I test drove the M340, M2C, Z4 M40i.

I think it suffers from an identity crisis in some ways. To me, it feels like it doesn't know if it wants to be a luxury car or a sports car, so it tries to do both and doesn't really succeed. Its very similar to the current G30, being that its heavily based on it.

The steering is numb but nicely weighted, the handling is a bit ponderous and overall the car feels heavy and large, and the belt-line isn't the best. In typical BMW fashion the powertrain is excellent, however Merc's V8's still sound better, but the engine is smooth and quick, although an 840i may be better as it reduces front end weight. Brakes are a bit touchy as they are brake by wire.

Luxury wise, materials are pretty decent (although you have to option full leather to get rid of the cheap plastics on the sides of the center console tunnel and door bins) and quality wise it feels nice and put together but the design is pretty boring compared to the competition or even the past 6-series and doesn't really look like its price, which is also very high for what it is, and rear seat space is non-existent, and no sunroof is offered, adding a dark and closed off feel to the cabin unless optioning for a lighter interior color.

It mostly feels like a coupe version of an M550 which is also a car I find unimpressive.

Personally, I'd look at the Porsche, while its price is higher, it will make up for it in resale/value, and will satisfy in both luxury and handling due to the lighter weight, engine placement, engaging transmission choices (PDK or Manual) and overall Porsche engineering excellence.
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      02-10-2020, 02:27 PM   #182
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I drove the M850i Coupe at the M Town Tour/Test Drive, and personally it was my least favorite vehicle of the bunch - I test drove the M340, M2C, Z4 M40i.

I think it suffers from an identity crisis in some ways. To me, it feels like it doesn't know if it wants to be a luxury car or a sports car, so it tries to do both and doesn't really succeed. Its very similar to the current G30, being that its heavily based on it.

The steering is numb but nicely weighted, the handling is a bit ponderous and overall the car feels heavy and large, and the belt-line isn't the best. In typical BMW fashion the powertrain is excellent, however Merc's V8's still sound better, but the engine is smooth and quick, although an 840i may be better as it reduces front end weight. Brakes are a bit touchy as they are brake by wire.

Luxury wise, materials are pretty decent (although you have to option full leather to get rid of the cheap plastics on the sides of the center console tunnel and door bins) and quality wise it feels nice and put together but the design is pretty boring compared to the competition or even the past 6-series and doesn't really look like its price, which is also very high for what it is, and rear seat space is non-existent, and no sunroof is offered, adding a dark and closed off feel to the cabin unless optioning for a lighter interior color.

It mostly feels like a coupe version of an M550 which is also a car I find unimpressive.

Personally, I'd look at the Porsche, while its price is higher, it will make up for it in resale/value, and will satisfy in both luxury and handling due to the lighter weight, engine placement, engaging transmission choices (PDK or Manual) and overall Porsche engineering excellence.
Thanks, that’s pretty much sums up what I suspected. As the 6 before it it’s mainly a very overpriced 5 series with a fancier shell.
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      02-13-2020, 01:13 AM   #183
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Thanks, that’s pretty much sums up what I suspected. As the 6 before it it’s mainly a very overpriced 5 series with a fancier shell.
That's basically what the old 8 series was as well. Only made special by nostalgia and good looks.
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      02-13-2020, 08:55 AM   #184
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That's basically what the old 8 series was as well. Only made special by nostalgia and good looks.
Not quite since a V12 is always special.
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      02-13-2020, 10:48 AM   #185
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Not quite since a V12 is always special.
Those were just the engine options available on the 7 series at the time. Mercedes and BMW have continuously put V12s in their top end luxury cars for a while and while they're kinda cool, they're not really special.
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      02-13-2020, 12:00 PM   #186
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Those were just the engine options available on the 7 series at the time. Mercedes and BMW have continuously put V12s in their top end luxury cars for a while and while they're kinda cool, they're not really special.
Exactly, it does make it much more upscale and special than the 5 series options to offer an engine only available at BMWs absolute top models in luxury and prestige, the 760s. A V12 always set a car apart.
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      02-15-2020, 08:45 PM   #187
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Definitely going Porsche, but I am one of those that will give the brand another shot the next generation. There is a significant difference in price when building out a 911S, but the fact that the F80 is a car I still absolutely love, I will be happy holding on to it a couple more years than I normally would have. Pumped for the 992, and this grill has really made me take the BMW blinders off and look at every brand without the bias I have carried since I could legally drive and own a vehicle.
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      02-16-2020, 06:59 AM   #188
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I ditched BMW for Porsche two years ago, and I don't think Ill ever be back.
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      02-16-2020, 08:04 AM   #189
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I ditched BMW for Porsche two years ago, and I don't think Ill ever be back.
But the fact you are posting here makes me think there's a thread of hope haha. What did you go with?

I would love it for porsche to make a small 4 door car....
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      02-20-2020, 03:26 PM   #190
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      02-24-2020, 11:15 AM   #191
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There are rumors of a reveal of a 620hp GTA version of the Giulia at Geneva...if true it will take some wind out of the G80 sail before its even launched.
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      02-25-2020, 09:06 PM   #192
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There are rumors of a reveal of a 620hp GTA version of the Giulia at Geneva...if true it will take some wind out of the G80 sail before its even launched.
Here in Toronto, at least one dealer still has brand "new" 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio in inventory available for sale. They're being deeply discounted and still unable to get rid of them after 2 years.

Even if BMW makes the entire front end of the G80 into one gigantic grille, I don't see Giulia taking any wind out of G80 sales.
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      02-26-2020, 12:59 AM   #193
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Here in Toronto, at least one dealer still has brand "new" 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio in inventory available for sale. They're being deeply discounted and still unable to get rid of them after 2 years.

Even if BMW makes the entire front end of the G80 into one gigantic grille, I don't see Giulia taking any wind out of G80 sales.
Yeah not so much sales impact since it will be pricey, more prestige. When you launch a new M3 you want to be the fastest in the segment and even if I suspect that the new M3 will be ferociously fast I can’t see it able to top a component upgraded and lightened 620hp Giulia.

Though the power delivery has to become nasty with blowers big enough to get 620hp out of that sub 3l V6. But with Ferrari in the supply chain who knows...
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      02-26-2020, 04:49 AM   #194
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There are rumors of a reveal of a 620hp GTA version of the Giulia at Geneva...if true it will take some wind out of the G80 sail before its even launched.
Here in Toronto, at least one dealer still has brand "new" 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio in inventory available for sale. They're being deeply discounted and still unable to get rid of them after 2 years.

Even if BMW makes the entire front end of the G80 into one gigantic grille, I don't see Giulia taking any wind out of G80 sales.
They won't... great cars but those things been sitting EVERYWHERE. I actually wanted one at one point and I still might pull the trigger but first....G80 😂
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      02-27-2020, 01:36 PM   #195
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Here in Toronto, at least one dealer still has brand "new" 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio in inventory available for sale. They're being deeply discounted and still unable to get rid of them after 2 years.

Even if BMW makes the entire front end of the G80 into one gigantic grille, I don't see Giulia taking any wind out of G80 sales.

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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Yeah not so much sales impact since it will be pricey, more prestige. When you launch a new M3 you want to be the fastest in the segment and even if I suspect that the new M3 will be ferociously fast I can’t see it able to top a component upgraded and lightened 620hp Giulia. Alfa is currently immaterial to BMW.

Though the power delivery has to become nasty with blowers big enough to get 620hp out of that sub 3l V6. But with Ferrari in the supply chain who knows...
Understand your point and the 620hp will certainly raise some eyebrows but hp isn't the reason for it's problems. Their biggest issues are rooted in (1) poor reliability, (2) poor reliability, (3) poor reliability reputaton and (4) poor dealer network in North America. Their Ferrari lineage has already been highlighted in Alfa's marketing before but it hasn't helped and 620hp isn't going to change that until they fix their root issues.

Alfa has already scrapped plans for future models 8C and GTV and discontinued the 4C, so if anything, they're actually pulling back. The Quadrifoglio MSRP is already priced higher than the F80. I don't see how increasing price to be commiserate with 620hp is going to help take wind out of the G80 sail no matter the size of the grille. Alfa is currently immaterial to BMW.
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      02-27-2020, 03:54 PM   #196
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Understand your point and the 620hp will certainly raise some eyebrows but hp isn't the reason for it's problems. Their biggest issues are rooted in (1) poor reliability, (2) poor reliability, (3) poor reliability reputaton and (4) poor dealer network in North America. Their Ferrari lineage has already been highlighted in Alfa's marketing before but it hasn't helped and 620hp isn't going to change that until they fix their root issues.

Alfa has already scrapped plans for future models 8C and GTV and discontinued the 4C, so if anything, they're actually pulling back. The Quadrifoglio MSRP is already priced higher than the F80. I don't see how increasing price to be commiserate with 620hp is going to help take wind out of the G80 sail no matter the size of the grille. Alfa is currently immaterial to BMW.
I agree on all of what you say except the last part. Being the fastest or a distant second in the segment matters for branding/prestige of a car with track ambitions.
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      03-17-2020, 01:17 PM   #197
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moved to an audi s5 to try the brand. Liking it a lot so far and have a rs5 in my sights since I cant stomach the new bmw design. I like how audi is still maintaining the sleeper look for their rs models. I was skeptical at first about awd since I'm a rwd guy but the torsen diff quattro system is really a lot of fun, especially in snow!
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      03-18-2020, 10:52 AM   #198
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Understand your point and the 620hp will certainly raise some eyebrows but hp isn't the reason for it's problems. Their biggest issues are rooted in (1) poor reliability, (2) poor reliability, (3) poor reliability reputaton and (4) poor dealer network in North America. Their Ferrari lineage has already been highlighted in Alfa's marketing before but it hasn't helped and 620hp isn't going to change that until they fix their root issues.

Alfa has already scrapped plans for future models 8C and GTV and discontinued the 4C, so if anything, they're actually pulling back. The Quadrifoglio MSRP is already priced higher than the F80. I don't see how increasing price to be commiserate with 620hp is going to help take wind out of the G80 sail no matter the size of the grille. Alfa is currently immaterial to BMW.
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I agree on all of what you say except the last part. Being the fastest or a distant second in the segment matters for branding/prestige of a car with track ambitions.
Branding/prestige mean little if it doesn't translate to sales. Last year Alfa sold around 8600 Giulia's in US (240 in Canada). BMW sold 126,000 3-Series in US. How many Guilias are QV and 3-Series are M3/4? Maybe 3%?

Using 3%, that translates to about 260 QV's in US. And then what % of the 260 that had they not purchased the QV would choose an M3/4 over another brand (e.g., MB, Audi, etc.)? Regardless of the number you choose, it's going to be extremely small relative to overall BMW sales.

So from an overall BMW perspective that sells hundreds of thousands of cars overall, $ lost due to QV sales is immaterial to BMW Corporate.

Last edited by Tacoma; 03-18-2020 at 11:06 AM..
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