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      09-25-2020, 01:28 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn View Post
They had no choice but to be bold and big. Sedans of this type (in the USA) are rare. To survive , it makes sense so they would stay relevant.

The truck size war going on in the USA is insanity. The larger the truck, the bigger your ....manhood must be, and the more popular it is for some American men. I live in Florida....there's no mountains or bad weather/snow. It's not even functional at a certain point. I never even see these people actually hauling "tonnage" either. The truck bed sizes are actually shrinking.

It's uniquely a western phenomenon, especially in America. I think there are some definite insecurities or compensating factors at play. More importantly, something is missing...or lacking...almost like something was taken away or missing from a young age. It's a curious thing that I think has spread like a virus recently that has made sedans and cars irrelevant because they are perceived as only for "sissy men".

Enter the G80/G82. Look at me, don't F with me little man, I'm still here!! This is human nature coming through in cars and trucks!
Relax and enjoy the spirit of America, I’ll bet you’ll miss the likes of the Raptors when this is what our streets look like

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      09-25-2020, 01:28 PM   #24
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It's a sign of the times. Society and the younger generations are more than ever obsessed with "making a statement" and "individuality" no matter how tasteless it is. The days of handsome but restrained are gone. It's all about being loud and seeking attention.

Additionally, CUVs are dominating the market so in order for sedans to survive, they really need to offer some sort of proposition over comparable CUVs. Styling is one of those areas they are really trying to emphasize. Toyota Honda Kia Hyundai etc. have done the same thing with their sedans.

The Tesla Model 3's success is another factor. BMW is trying to capitalize on the fact that the Model 3 is a slightly above average looking commuter car that everybody has now. It doesn't evoke emotion in the way the new M3/4 do. The parking lot at my work place is filled with the Model 3's of colleagues. It has become an ordinary looking car that nobody looks at twice.
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      09-25-2020, 09:46 PM   #25
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Domagoj Dukec-BMW Head Designer Interview

Interesting interview on Oversized Grills:

" You Can't Please Everybody"

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/inter...ase-everybody/
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      09-26-2020, 03:13 AM   #26
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I have always found the m performance parts mostly outrageous looking but im pretty new to the bmw scene so maybe thats a recent development lol i think theyre going in this direction because audi and mercedes performance sedans look pretty similar to the base version and tesla kind of has the same thing goin on so theres a big untapped market share for something with unique styling...they probably figure the purists will still buy it because it's about the only thing left with a stick. The giulia qf would probably be stiffer competition if it wasn't so notoriously unreliable that is definitely a better looking car than the m3 but I dont think i could roll the dice on not getting where I need to go 🤣
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      09-26-2020, 01:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn View Post
They had no choice but to be bold and big. Sedans of this type (in the USA) are rare. To survive , it makes sense so they would stay relevant.

The truck size war going on in the USA is insanity. The larger the truck, the bigger your ....manhood must be, and the more popular it is for some American men. I live in Florida....there's no mountains or bad weather/snow. It's not even functional at a certain point. I never even see these people actually hauling "tonnage" either. The truck bed sizes are actually shrinking.

It's uniquely a western phenomenon, especially in America. I think there are some definite insecurities or compensating factors at play. More importantly, something is missing...or lacking...almost like something was taken away or missing from a young age. It's a curious thing that I think has spread like a virus recently that has made sedans and cars irrelevant because they are perceived as only for "sissy men".

Enter the G80/G82. Look at me, don't F with me little man, I'm still here!! This is human nature coming through in cars and trucks!
Relax and enjoy the spirit of America, I’ll bet you’ll miss the likes of the Raptors when this is what our streets look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn View Post
They had no choice but to be bold and big. Sedans of this type (in the USA) are rare. To survive , it makes sense so they would stay relevant.

The truck size war going on in the USA is insanity. The larger the truck, the bigger your ....manhood must be, and the more popular it is for some American men. I live in Florida....there's no mountains or bad weather/snow. It's not even functional at a certain point. I never even see these people actually hauling "tonnage" either. The truck bed sizes are actually shrinking.

It's uniquely a western phenomenon, especially in America. I think there are some definite insecurities or compensating factors at play. More importantly, something is missing...or lacking...almost like something was taken away or missing from a young age. It's a curious thing that I think has spread like a virus recently that has made sedans and cars irrelevant because they are perceived as only for "sissy men".

Enter the G80/G82. Look at me, don't F with me little man, I'm still here!! This is human nature coming through in cars and trucks!
Relax and enjoy the spirit of America, I’ll bet you’ll miss the likes of the Raptors when this is what our streets look like

[IMG]https://www.pandasecurity.com/mediac...0/smartcar.jpg[/IMG]
My manhood is in check, I asked my wife.... but I still think the M3 is a good looking car
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      09-30-2020, 06:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by av.7447 View Post
To be honest I don’t understand what you are asking? The m performance parts catalog always looked the same and in my opinion haven’t changed. It has a classic collection of parts created by middle school children with Asian countries being their primary target audience. In Canada we call them “ricers”....sooo...nothing changed...
The M-Performance parts on the F8X were quite classy, save for that tacky wing. I had/have CF rear spoiler, CF diffuser, CF mirror caps, MPE and MP-HAS on my cars. I found them great performance and esthetic enhancement for my cars and certianly do not consider them RICEd out. Many of these on the G8X are a bit over the top for me though.
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      09-30-2020, 07:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The M-Performance parts on the F8X were quite classy, save for that tacky wing. I had/have CF rear spoiler, CF diffuser, CF mirror caps, MPE and MP-HAS on my cars. I found them great performance and esthetic enhancement for my cars and certianly do not consider them RICEd out. Many of these on the G8X are a bit over the top for me though.
Agreed. It seems we'll get most of the classy bits through the carbon exterior pack, but I imagine they're going to lose sales if that's the only MPE option. Hopefully there's still some sort of HAS option and they're just not showing it.
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      09-30-2020, 07:37 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by unfoundnemo View Post
Agreed. It seems we'll get most of the classy bits through the carbon exterior pack, but I imagine they're going to lose sales if that's the only MPE option. Hopefully there's still some sort of HAS option and they're just not showing it.
Yes, there is a MP-HAS option for the G8X, it is stated in the press release and the black/red press show car is wearing it.

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Suspension and sound even more closely linked to motorsport.

The M Performance sports suspension was developed and tuned on various different racetracks and is also directly associated with motor racing. The coilover suspension permits an infinitely variable reduction of ride height of between five and twenty millimetres (recommended lowering -10 mm vs. the M base model). With unchanged damper adjustment, the driver benefits from a lower centre of gravity, reduced rolling movement and even higher cornering speeds. In addition to increased dynamics, lowering also enhances the sporty looks.
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      09-30-2020, 07:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Yes, there is a MP-HAS option for the G8X, it is stated in the press release and the black/red press show car is wearing it.
Thanks, I guess I turned away too quickly after seeing all the other nonsense.
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      09-30-2020, 08:08 AM   #32
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I think BMW needed to diversify their ///M Brand from the rest of their vehicles. The G80/82 are what I'd call the flagship design for all upcoming ///M models. The M5/8 just look like a slightly different version of their less powerful counter parts. Gone are the days of sleeper performance models. With increasing competition they need to diversify the lineup and stand out for better or worse. I like the new M3/4 design, it's aggressive and people will unmistakably know what you're driving.
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      09-30-2020, 09:22 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
I think BMW needed to diversify their ///M Brand from the rest of their vehicles. The G80/82 are what I'd call the flagship design for all upcoming ///M models. The M5/8 just look like a slightly different version of their less powerful counter parts. Gone are the days of sleeper performance models. With increasing competition they need to diversify the lineup and stand out for better or worse. I like the new M3/4 design, it's aggressive and people will unmistakably know what you're driving.
It now seems like they are differentiating more visually than technologically...

I drive my cars for myself, not for others. How it drives matters more to me than how it looks.
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      09-30-2020, 09:32 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
I think BMW needed to diversify their ///M Brand from the rest of their vehicles. The G80/82 are what I'd call the flagship design for all upcoming ///M models. The M5/8 just look like a slightly different version of their less powerful counter parts. Gone are the days of sleeper performance models. With increasing competition they need to diversify the lineup and stand out for better or worse. I like the new M3/4 design, it's aggressive and people will unmistakably know what you're driving.
It now seems like they are differentiating more visually than technologically...

I drive my cars for myself, not for others. How it drives matters more to me than how it looks.
they have been doing things under the hood so to speak but until we all get to drive one we won't know how it feels
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      09-30-2020, 09:42 AM   #35
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Do any of you ever check automotive trends and notice that sedans and coupes are dying a slow death in the marketplace? It's like some of you expected this new model to look similar to the F80 where it could slowly fade into obscurity while sales numbers continued to shrink. BMW is trying to bring some attention to these cars. I can't recall if it was Motortrend or Road & Track but one columnist stated correctly after the reveal that the worst thing that can happen on a new model introduction is lack of buzz. The entire industry has been talking about these cars and it matters not how controversial it is, as long as it remains a relative topic it's a major win. When these cars start appearing on the street people are going to have double takes and be genuinely curious what the car is. Even if they don't know what to make of it at first sight the fact it got their attention is positive as if it looks like every other BMW it's just going to fade into the background. These cars are going to forever stick out in the BMW lineup going back over the generations and notoriety is better than being forgotten. Now if you don't like it, then don't buy it. It's really that simple and this "direction" is more an attempt at preservation in an ever-shrinking model segment before it gets to the point where every automaker sells CUV's and SUV's almost exclusively.
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      09-30-2020, 11:05 AM   #36
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What I have been wondering is what happened to the 'pure model' that was rumored? This model was reported on by pretty much all publications and insiders and it never materialized in the ways it was rumored to. Instead there is just a base model without much change other than less power and a manual option.

The pure was supposed to be manual transmission, significantly less weight, manual brake, cloth, a return to basics, where did it go? I was so excited. Happy to have the manual transmission, but since the launch I have been thinking what happened to the ‘pure model’....it would have been ideal, IMO.

Does it come along with a CS or CSL version?
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      09-30-2020, 11:25 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
What I have been wondering is what happened to the 'pure model' that was rumored? This model was reported on by pretty much all publications and insiders and it never materialized in the ways it was rumored to. Instead there is just a base model without much change other than less power and a manual option.

The pure was supposed to be manual transmission, significantly less weight, manual brake, cloth, a return to basics, where did it go? I was so excited. Happy to have the manual transmission, but since the launch I have been thinking what happened to the 'pure model'....it would have been ideal, IMO.

Does it come along with a CS or CSL version?
I think the auto rags made way too many assumptions when they heard the term "pure"...

The only credible rumor was that they were testing an even lower power version (450ish hp) that was called "pure" which could have just as easily been a descriptive term for the manual model not a specific all out version of the car...

The other line items like weight, brakes, etc were all wishful thinking that circulated enough to be treated as credible. If they are to come, you are probably right that a CSL would make sense but with a price premium to justify
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      09-30-2020, 11:52 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The M-Performance parts on the F8X were quite classy, save for that tacky wing. I had/have CF rear spoiler, CF diffuser, CF mirror caps, MPE and MP-HAS on my cars. I found them great performance and esthetic enhancement for my cars and certianly do not consider them RICEd out. Many of these on the G8X are a bit over the top for me though.
Don't you think they "riced" the CS rear spoiler a bit? Stuck it half way up the boot lid. It should have been a more aggressive version of the M Performance spoiler that extended to the end of the boot. The wings including the GTS I think look like a universal fitment direct from the rice shop!

The other F82 carbon parts, HAS and exhaust are well engineered, work and look great
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      09-30-2020, 12:00 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by RevNev View Post
Don't you think they "riced" the CS rear spoiler a bit? Stuck it half way up the boot lid. It should have been a more aggressive version of the M Performance spoiler that extended to the end of the boot. The wings including the GTS I think look like a universal fitment direct from the rice shop!

The other F82 carbon parts, HAS and exhaust are well engineered, work and look great
It’s a question of form follows function. The CS’ CF rear gurney flap is aerodynamically functional and generates net downforce, as opposed to the “normal” M3/4 that have net lift. Same for the GTS wing, even if I do find the GTS wing a bit over the top for a daily driver. So if they are functional, they are not cosmetic and hence not RICE. On the other hand, the spoiler design you suggest, if it’s mainly for cosmetic enhancement, would be RICE .
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      09-30-2020, 12:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
I was almost trying to start to accept the grills. Then the M-performance parts show up.

What are your thoughts about why BMW M is going in this direction?
Younger (34 now so not young!) DINKs like me who have more disposable income and want a fast sedan, and are looking at cars like the Audi, Alfa and AMG offerings, are now looking at the M3 as well, where as I would say the M3 was more for the purist who didn't mind a harsh ride as they tracked it, but it's a lot closer to an M5 now and it seems very intentional.
I do intend to track this in the future, so am glad it's kept a lot of that in its DNA, but I also want tech and comfort and my wife to be able to use it easily. I also love the new look, the Audi and Mercedes options are near impossible to tell apart on the road, and I can tell most cars apart easily; there is no issue with the M3 and people want that. I'm spending $90k on this, yeah I want it to be known it's an M3 and not an M340i with a body kit, or from even further away often any 3 series, which the F80 M3 suffers from (the M4 is a little easier to distinguish)
I get that was a large factor for people, the stealth/incognito appeal, but times have changed and people don't want subtle anymore. I couldn't care less about internet points (likes, upvotes etc) but for me I want an aggressive sedan, with comfort and tech and an option to enjoy on a track - nothing comes close to the G80!
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      09-30-2020, 12:57 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
It’s a question of form follows function. The CS’ CF rear gurney flap is aerodynamically functional and generates net downforce, as opposed to the “normal” M3/4 that have net lift. Same for the GTS wing, even if I do find the GTS wing a bit over the top for a daily driver. So if they are functional, they are not cosmetic and hence not RICE. On the other hand, the spoiler design you suggest, if it’s mainly for cosmetic enhancement, would be RICE .
The ideal component to generate downforce on the F82 chassis is the GT4 rear wing. Anything less than that is rice despite the limited downforce it may generate. The styling component of the lesser wings and spoilers I'd suspect is prioritised, not the aerodynamic potential.
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      09-30-2020, 01:03 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Younger (34 now so not young!) DINKs like me who have more disposable income and want a fast sedan, and are looking at cars like the Audi, Alfa and AMG offerings, are now looking at the M3 as well, where as I would say the M3 was more for the purist who didn't mind a harsh ride as they tracked it, but it's a lot closer to an M5 now and it seems very intentional.
I do intend to track this in the future, so am glad it's kept a lot of that in its DNA, but I also want tech and comfort and my wife to be able to use it easily. I also love the new look, the Audi and Mercedes options are near impossible to tell apart on the road, and I can tell most cars apart easily; there is no issue with the M3 and people want that. I'm spending $90k on this, yeah I want it to be known it's an M3 and not an M340i with a body kit, or from even further away often any 3 series, which the F80 M3 suffers from (the M4 is a little easier to distinguish)
I get that was a large factor for people, the stealth/incognito appeal, but times have changed and people don't want subtle anymore. I couldn't care less about internet points (likes, upvotes etc) but for me I want an aggressive sedan, with comfort and tech and an option to enjoy on a track - nothing comes close to the G80!
I don't ever remember seeing your SN on the F8x forums so I just assume you never owned one? So I don't get where you are coming from, BMW provided a subtly aggressive, distinguishable and fully capable platform in the F8Xs. Time will tell if the G platform will deliver the same but with what we know so far they may have missed that mark. Also saying DINKs like you were looking at Audi, Alpha and AMG are now looking at M3s makes no sense either? These brands have always been competitors, the only difference is Audi and Merc did away with MTs and Alpha is a bust...again. But people who bought F8s for sure cross shopped all of those brands and then some. You then go on to say the M3 is harder to distinguish from a regular 3 series but an M4 is easier? Yet you can identify most cars on the road regardless? That statement along with your other ones leads me to believe you really don't have an informed opinion on any of this.

I will agree with you on one thing, you are the absolute targeted audience for this car. Someone who wants a 'look at me in my $90k car' and that's fine for you. But for the rest of us its just not what we expected BMW to deliver. Whether I move into one I don't know but it certainly won't be because I want a car that will let everyone know that I have made it in this life. Finally how do you know nothing comes close the G80? Because BMW and the paid youtuber shills told you so? You haven't driven one let alone sat in one.
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      09-30-2020, 01:34 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by RevNev View Post
The ideal component to generate downforce on the F82 chassis is the GT4 rear wing. Anything less than that is rice despite the limited downforce it may generate. The styling component of the lesser wings and spoilers I'd suspect is prioritised, not the aerodynamic potential.
You should read up on the CS development. There was a fair bit of wind tunnel work by BMW to improve aerodynamic downforce on the CS, the front splitter, vented hood and rear gurney work in unison to generate net downforce and keep the overall front/rear downforce in balance.

The GT4 wing moves it up to another level, but you also need the massive front splitter to keep things in balance.
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      09-30-2020, 02:26 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
You should read up on the CS development. There was a fair bit of wind tunnel development work by BMW to improve aerodynamic downforce on the CS, the front splitter, vented hood and rear gurney work in unison to generate net downforce and keep the overall front/rear downforce in balance.

The GT4 wing moves it up to another level, but you also need the massive front splitter to keep things in balance.
Agreed. Even the CS lip is kind of low.

When you look at the GTS and the front splitter required to balance out the rear GT4 wing, well, you can't just put than on street cars left and right, it's really low.
Appreciate 1
CanAutM321104.50
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