09-29-2020, 09:22 AM | #23 |
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Wow, what an interesting thread. I knew Europe was getting more stringent, but I had no idea the curve was that steep. 50k Euro taxes is something I'd expect more in Scandinavian countries. And to think that just a few years ago, it was fractionally less.
We always seem to blame manufacturers for making less and less cars that we as a group like, but when you see crazy numbers like this, it really does put it into perspective. Meanwhile where I live, we don't even have car inspections... P.S. With reading things like this, it really does make me wonder if the G series M cars will be the last ones with 3 pedals and the next ones will truly go PHEV route
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09-29-2020, 09:45 AM | #24 | |
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https://www.bmwtaxfree.co.uk/personal-tax-free-sales It might not be all that attractive now, but if you can get a good exchange rate then plan it out. The reason for my rant - 40,000 EUR tax has killed it for me |
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09-29-2020, 10:06 AM | #25 | |
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The US despite all its shortcomings still allows you to have some freedom. In the US, a middle class family can afford to do things they want to do even if those things are out of the norm. If you like horses, you can sacrifice where you live and how large your home is in order to afford one. If you like cars, you can decide to get an expensive one and live in a trailer park. If you like the track, you can elect to buy your clothes at Walmart and eat Ramen noodles every day to fund your hobby. If you want to have a wood workshop in your little garage you can do it. In Europe, DaddyandMommy-state has already made the decision for you. You are allowed a cookie cutter existence and if you want to do anything special you'd better be a friggin millionaire. Edit: freedom also comes at a cost, so it's not all positive for the US. Still, the best civilized country to live in.
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09-29-2020, 07:10 PM | #26 | |
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Don’t call US the father of modern democracy for no reason. EU is hopeless but I believe the Europeans can still fight it out through voting but then too many people wants to talk and look political correct. That’s why they are where they are now. |
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09-30-2020, 03:47 AM | #27 | |
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https://www.challenges.fr/automobile...en-2022_729330 but I am afraid it will be voted. This is insane and will kill the non electric/hybrid sport & luxury car market ... that being said there are still a number of EU countries where taxes for these cars are reasonnable. But for how long? |
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09-30-2020, 06:38 AM | #28 |
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Just out of curiosity, how are used car taxes? Would something like an E92 M3 be prohibitively expensive to own, not counting fuel?
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09-30-2020, 07:53 AM | #29 |
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Very interesting, wasn't aware of such a steep tax penalty on high emission cars in France. Currently probably part of a minority, but that will definitely change - especially when taking in mind Europe wants to be an ecological leader in the future.
But let's look on the bright side of things: Automakers are forced to invest into alternatives - mainly EV and (P)HEV, which come with their own advantages. I'm pretty sure (from a performance POV only, taking out emotions) future cars will be faster and have less emissions. A remapped 45e can push easily over 500 crank hp while still offering locally emission free driving and significantly reduced combined emmissions even when using both engines. With next gen battery packs, the weight penalty isn't that much anymore and will allow for longer stretches of electric only. A usable milage compared to the handful of miles we were able to drive on last gen PHEVs (15mi last gen, 30-60m current gen, hopefully 60-triple digits mi next gen). I would really, really want to comment on the EU vs US/"freedom" comments on this thread - but that's getting too political and thats a highly emotional topic. Let's just say I disagree, but I don't think this is the right place to go into detail about that... |
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09-30-2020, 08:19 AM | #30 |
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Very interesting. I don't claim to have all the answers but this seems like a crappy solution. Makes me want to collect manual and NA cars (or at least internal combustion!) bc I'm sure the US isn't far behind.... If there's ever been a time to buy a GT3 in manual ...
Sad times for car enthusiasts when Germany commits to no more combustion engines (move production to US???)... and not to mention the controversy surrounding the devastation caused by battery production .. will all of this actually help the world? *sigh*
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09-30-2020, 02:13 PM | #31 | |
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The taxes to register a used car are significanlty lower and in addition are decreasing by 10% every year after the first registration. So I believe an E92 M3 which is at least 7 years old should be relatively inexpensive to register... There is however an additional (minor)yearly tax (160 Euro) because of the co2 level. |
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09-30-2020, 02:19 PM | #32 | |
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Consuming less energy, that is eco friendly. Instead we get high powered, expensive vehicles so rich people can avoid paying taxes on the cars and enjoy free charging that the poor people are subsidizing. Kind of like people flying in private jets to give speeches about climate change. I'm not sure what the tax law in France is, but in Spain there is no car tax for electric cars. So you can buy your plaid mode Tesla without tax while the poor bastards buying 70hp diesels pay tax. |
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09-30-2020, 02:20 PM | #33 |
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if i recall correctly a dutch friend was telling me there wasn't really a difference, you paid a giant % tax even if the car was used if it originally was expensive.
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09-30-2020, 02:31 PM | #34 | |
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09-30-2020, 02:34 PM | #35 | |
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09-30-2020, 10:27 PM | #36 | |
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All this is based on Co2 emissions. But Dodge and Ford are getting around this problem by make their high Co2 emissions vehicles flexfuel (E85 bioetanol) and these have regular low taxes. So i suggested to BMW Sweden to do the same and they said that they would forward it but i has not heard anything since. Maybe this can be a solution i other European countrys too? |
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10-01-2020, 12:25 AM | #37 |
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The Australian government doesn't even pretend their car tax cash grab has anything to do with the environment.
There is a 33% "luxury car" tax on every dollar above $67,525 of a new car price. It was initially brought in to protect Australian car makers, but there are no Australian car makers anymore. |
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10-01-2020, 12:35 AM | #38 | |
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10-01-2020, 06:13 AM | #39 | |
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The tax can apparently now go up to 8000 Euro for the high hp cars. Still a bargain compared to the current 20000 or future 40/50000 Euro on new car. Puissance fiscale du véhicule (en CV fiscaux) Montant de la surtaxe malus écologique Inférieure à 10 CV 0 euros 10 / 11 CV 100 euros 12 à 14 CV 300 euros De 15 à 35 CV 1000 euros 36 CV 1500 euros 37 CV 2000 euros 38 CV 2500 euros 39 CV 3000 euros 40 CV 3500 euros 41 CV 4000 euros 42 CV 4500 euros 43 CV 5000 euros 44 CV 5500 euros 45 CV 6000 euros 46 CV 6500 euros 47 CV 7000 euros 48 CV 7500 euros Supérieur ou égal à 49 CV 8000 euros |
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10-01-2020, 06:47 AM | #40 | |
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What is strange in France is that in few years they moved from a relatively favorable system to one of the worst. Who is going to pay an additional tax of 50000 Euro to register a car, just few hyper car owner I guess...others will either move to something else or try to by-pass the system (leasing / registration in other countries) |
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10-01-2020, 07:22 AM | #41 | |
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So you let someone take the 40,000 euro hit on first registration then 6 months later you buy without penalty. Crazy |
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10-01-2020, 07:30 AM | #42 | |
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What an odd system.
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10-01-2020, 08:08 AM | #43 | |
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When your income is half (at most) what it is in the US, then you are taxed ~60% of that, then out of the 40% remaining you still have to pay ~20% VAT plus 70% tax on gasoline, property taxes, etc, well, you're basically living with 30% of your income. Let's break it out in numbers. In the US let's say you make 200k/year. In Europe let's assume you can find the same job and you're lucky that it pays you ~50%. Let's say 100k/year. Taxes take half of that. You have 50k left VAT takes 20% of that. You have 40k left. If you want to buy a car there's an additional VAT of ~20%. If you want fuel it's 8/gal. You pay property tax, you pay for private healthcare because the public healthcare is clogged up. You don't have a lot of money left when all is said and done.
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10-01-2020, 08:43 AM | #44 | ||
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