[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by omaralt

The plot thickens. Went to the local Porsche dealership to test drive a boxter gts manual they had. Honestly wasn’t impressed. Feels slow off the line and then you have to rev it (sound amazing) but then you get into the whole tall gearing issue.

This should not be surprising. Everyone oohs and ah's over the NA Porsche thing but ignores the reality of weedy torque and having to rev the nuts off a car with long gearing. It's why I sold my 991.1 Redline in second, SECOND, was....72 freaking MPH. 7,600 RPM Redline. Peak power at 7,200 peak TORQUE at 5,600.

Oh, and it had 7 gears. DUMB.

So yeah if you're used to turbo power, it's gonna feel weedy.

Originally Posted by omaralt

Next door was a Cadillac dealership. Walked in and they have a ct5 blackwing with a manual. Matte black (black noir). Msrp is $110k. They were asking $190k lol. After a few mins they agreed to a $15k markup. Told them I’m gonna sleep on it. Wouldn’t let me drive it without agreeing to numbers (makes sense). They offered me $68k on my m3… decisions decisions

$190k GTFO.

If you're cool with losing that $15k, just be aware you'll never see that back. If you go look on the M3 vs. forum there are two members who just bought CT5 BW's and offer honest opinions of them. https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2020399&page=3 Personally, you're looking at nearly DOUBLE your asking price. It's the last ICE Caddy and a bad ass engine but are you willing to live with low teens mileage, burning through rear tires and a lack of rear grip? What are you going to do with the car? You're kind of all over the place, why are you looking to get out of the M3 in the first place?

I'm not trying to say M3 is the answer, but to flip flop between a Cayman and a CT5 BW from a G80 sounds like something I'd consider, which means I know it's completely irrational.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by omaralt

The plot thickens. Went to the local Porsche dealership to test drive a boxter gts manual they had. Honestly wasn’t impressed. Feels slow off the line and then you have to rev it (sound amazing) but then you get into the whole tall gearing issue.

Next door was a Cadillac dealership. Walked in and they have a ct5 blackwing with a manual. Matte black (black noir). Msrp is $110k. They were asking $190k lol. After a few mins they agreed to a $15k markup. Told them I’m gonna sleep on it. Wouldn’t let me drive it without agreeing to numbers (makes sense). They offered me $68k on my m3… decisions decisions

Then why not keep the m3 which is awesome as well? Plus the $50K+ you save can't hurt.

[omaralt]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

$190k GTFO.

If you're cool with losing that $15k, just be aware you'll never see that back. If you go look on the M3 vs. forum there are two members who just bought CT5 BW's and offer honest opinions of them. https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2020399&page=3 Personally, you're looking at nearly DOUBLE your asking price. It's the last ICE Caddy and a bad ass engine but are you willing to live with low teens mileage, burning through rear tires and a lack of rear grip? What are you going to do with the car? You're kind of all over the place, why are you looking to get out of the M3 in the first place?

I'm not trying to say M3 is the answer, but to flip flop between a Cayman and a CT5 BW from a G80 sounds like something I'd consider, which means I know it's completely irrational.

lol I’m all over the place, I know. Honestly I’m just itching for something new. I usually switch cars every year or two. I’ve had this m3 for 14 months but I had a G82 before that for a year. So I’m at over two years in technically the same car!

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by omaralt

lol I’m all over the place, I know. Honestly I’m just itching for something new. I usually switch cars every year or two. I’ve had this m3 for 14 months but I had a G82 before that for a year. So I’m at over two years in technically the same car!

Yeah, I understand that. Don't do it but understand it.

If you really want to get into a P-Car, get a 991.2. They are turbo, but feel very N/A and actually sound pretty good. Plus, you know, TORQUE. Then put an M Engineering tune on it and...see ya. I just can't recommend the 4 cylinder turbo Caymans. They sound SO BAD.

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I just can't recommend the 4 cylinder turbo Caymans. They sound SO BAD.

I agree. The NA GTS 4.0 and GT4 aren't the best street cars but on the track they are sublime.

[PLife]

The gts 4.0 has the shitty 4.0 with very long gears and less hp. Also has smaller wheels/tires than gt4. Id say step up to gt4 or keep m3
In addition to extra 200 rpm redline, the gt4 has full motorsport suspension and aero

[nu2M]

If you get tired of cars easily (ie. less than 2 years), Cayman GTS will surely not be in your stable for long. You’d have to be someone who appreciates the NA 4.0 engine and take it on a track and/or the twisties with some long stretches to really work the engine. A cure would be to fork out the $$$ and own your dream car or be ready to swap out cars every two years. Many of us on these car forums have a car addiction, as my wife puts it. As much as I like my M3CX, I don’t see her staying in my garage for more than 3-4 years.

[Bimmerfun82]

If you’re on the list for the 911, this is a stepping stone. You won’t lose much on the cayman when the 911 arrives. I say do it.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by PLife

The gts 4.0 has the shitty 4.0 with very long gears and less hp. Also has smaller wheels/tires than gt4. Id say step up to gt4 or keep m3
In addition to extra 200 rpm redline, the gt4 has full motorsport suspension and aero

The gt4 has the same shitty 4.0 with the same long gears. It does have 20hp more and 200 higher rpm limit which you might notice on the track, maybe. Same with the aero. So I guess the gt4 is just about as shitty.

[MJBO]

Spent a day with a manual GT4 and while it was lovely, the long ratios kinda spoil it. On a nice road you basically stick it in second and that’s it.

[HNSKP]

After driving a GTS 4.0 PDK at the Porsche Experience Center track, I was very underwhelmed. Sure the car felt much lighter than my G80 as expected, but the engine didn’t feel or sound that special. Very disappointed with the steering feel as well. Tons of midcorner understeer compared to the 718 GT4. At the asking price, I’d definitely step up to the GT4 (probably 981 although I’ve yet to drive one).

[M4Tejas]

Originally Posted by omaralt

Thanks. I’ve had a 2018 991.2 with the 7spd. Enjoyed it but the back seat is useless. So essentially a two seater. I’ve heard great things about the cayman, especially the 4.0 gts. I want to go and drive it but it’s a 3 hour drive

Get it and have DeMan do the 4.5 conversion. SOLD! Hunt down BMW's....


https://demanmotorsport.com

[LuvMyE92]

I'm the third (unmentioned) G8x --> CT5V BW convert, and it is a fabulous car. I highly recommend it.

However, it is not in the same category as the Cayman. It's up to you to decide what category you want to be in.

As for the Porsche, I've owned both and the Cayman/Boxster platform is superior to the 911. There, I said it.

For me, personally, I could not live with the Cayman as my DD. The G8x or the BW, sure, but not the little sports car thingie. But that's me, the old guy.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by omaralt

The plot thickens. Went to the local Porsche dealership to test drive a boxter gts manual they had. Honestly wasn’t impressed. Feels slow off the line and then you have to rev it (sound amazing) but then you get into the whole tall gearing issue.

Next door was a Cadillac dealership. Walked in and they have a ct5 blackwing with a manual. Matte black (black noir). Msrp is $110k. They were asking $190k lol. After a few mins they agreed to a $15k markup. Told them I’m gonna sleep on it. Wouldn’t let me drive it without agreeing to numbers (makes sense). They offered me $68k on my m3… decisions decisions

Shop around if you go with the blackwing. There is no markup at some dealers if you finance with their preferred bank. And the prepayment clause was after 3 months no penalty to pay off the loan. So if the interest rate is higher can play the game to avoid the markup. I looked into these when I came out of my g80cx.

The other option if you don’t mind the ZF8 is a lightly used z4m40 around 65k. I got one new and dropped it on stiffer springs, and it’s a blast. If you want a car that’s fast and quick and agile and don’t mind an automatic, it’s a great option that’s forgotten and underrated (to quote SG).

[Vishal50028]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Why would you even say this?

Go spur further discussion on a message board

[PLife]

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

The gt4 has the same shitty 4.0 with the same long gears. It does have 20hp more and 200 higher rpm limit which you might notice on the track, maybe. Same with the aero. So I guess the gt4 is just about as shitty.

It is LOL. The big difference is the GT suspension from the GT3. But its still not as sharp as a new gt3 or the RSs.

[MackyT83]

911 or nothing.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by PLife

It is LOL. The big difference is the GT suspension from the GT3. But its still not as sharp as a new gt3 or the RSs.

I’m just joking obviously. It’s funny when we look at our requirements. We have to go all the way up to a gt3 or RS to make ourselves happy and even there I’m sure we can find something. Not to mention that some of the requirements contradict each other. I think we want a high revving NA motor with the low end torque of a turbo.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

I’m just joking obviously. It’s funny when we look at our requirements. We have to go all the way up to a gt3 or RS to make ourselves happy and even there I’m sure we can find something. Not to mention that some of the requirements contradict each other. I think we want a high revving NA motor with the low end torque of a turbo.

So you want a 992.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Vishal50028

911 or bust

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Why would you even say this?

For Porsche-people, the 911 is so revered and classic that everything else is second best. In my head, I know that the 718 chassis is superior to the 911's, but as a 25-year 911 driver, my heart would never allow me to buy one. When seeing a 718 on the road, Porsche snobs (of which, I may be one) immediately think, "oh, couldn't afford a 911, huh?" But the 718 is an awesome, awesome car.

Originally Posted by omaralt

The plot thickens. Went to the local Porsche dealership to test drive a boxter gts manual they had. Honestly wasn’t impressed. Feels slow off the line and then you have to rev it (sound amazing) but then you get into the whole tall gearing issue.

Up until a year ago, I was a diehard, save the manual guy. Then I bought an M8 (which I subsequently traded for an M4). The M8's monster V8 and excellent AT made me understand why MTs are dying. There's simply no way you can drive any MT as quickly as a good, modern AT. And Porsche's PDK is superior to BMW's ATs. If you opt for an MT today, you have to take pleasure from the engagement it offers, not from its speed.

Originally Posted by omaralt

Next door was a Cadillac dealership. Walked in and they have a ct5 blackwing with a manual. Matte black (black noir). Msrp is $110k. They were asking $190k lol. After a few mins they agreed to a $15k markup on any car. Told them I’m gonna sleep on it. Wouldn’t let me drive it without agreeing to numbers (makes sense). They offered me $68k on my m3… decisions decisions

First, I'd never pay a markup on any car. That's why I don't own a Porsche right now. It's $15k that's gone from the moment you write the check. Second, if you've been driving BMWs or European cars for any length of time, I fear you'll be disappointed in the Caddy. They are good cars, but they lack the driving finesse and sophistication of BMWs and Porsches. It'll be hard to pinpoint, but imo, you'll have a nagging feeling that you've somehow downgraded.

To your original question, "think of trading my M3 for a cayman, crazy??" As a long-time BMW and Porsche owner, my answer is, No. Never. Imo, Porsche makes the finest, most sophisticated sports cars on the market today. And they're disguised as daily drivers. Try that with an F-car, Aston, or any other so-called exotic. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with any Porsche sports car.

[Mike02z]

I change cars every 2 years so I’ve been on a LOT of car forums. There is a thread like this in all of them 😔

I never understood coming to a specific car brand/model forum and asking the members for their opinion on a different brand/model but to each their own.

My brother is a P guy and has had many 928’s, 944’s and of course 911’s. The only 2 I drove were an 87 911 targa manual and a 07 911 Carrera S manual. I didn’t like the way either drove. There wasn’t a single issue I could point to. For me it was a number of small annoyances.

Good luck with your decision.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by hinckley

For Porsche-people, the 911 is so revered and classic that everything else is second best. In my head, I know that the 718 chassis is superior to the 911's, but as a 25-year 911 driver, my heart would never allow me to buy one. When seeing a 718 on the road, Porsche snobs (of which, I may be one) immediately think, "oh, couldn't afford a 911, huh?" But the 718 is an awesome, awesome car.

.

I’ve owned two 911’s. Been a Porsche owner for a decade. Followed the brand since the 80’s. Very active in my local PCA chapter. We don’t roll like that at all. Sorry that you feel this way. I think fewer people share this opinion that you might believe.