[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

I have a 2018 and 550 and I have been debating about eventually upgrading to another ICE like an F90 or G80.

I have recently started thinking about an EV, but looking at the Taycan.

I have a Cayenne GTS for my family car and that is one bad ass SUV. Once you’re in the Porsche world it’s hard to drive anything else.

The other day I was on the freeway and there was a guy ahead of me in a Taycan turbo. I could tell he was frustrated because the car in front of him was going slow in the fast lane. He changed over to the right lane to pass and his car fucking exploded. It was one of the most incredible feats of acceleration I have seen.

I think Teslas look boring, and I would never want one but a Taycan…. Porsche handling / fit and finish - and the instant power of an EV.

Something to think about if you can afford it. Prices on these are dropping like bricks you could probably get a really nice Taycan turbo CPO for about 100 grand.

.

I so badly wanted to buy a Taycan. Love Porsche and was selling my 911 for something more practical. But the price / performance just isn't there. A 4S feels about as fast as my Model 3 AWD, and only a Turbo S feels as fast as my Model 3 Perfromamce. That was one strike. The price was another. The reliability is a third (spoke to my Service advisor, in addition to the 911 we still have 958 and 9Y0 cayennes). Next, it's a big car but it's damn tight inside. Back seat is really small and while the driver's seat is comfy, ingress is odd.

Finally, as good as it is, for the $$ I knew I was going to own it a while...and I just didn't feel like it was a well resolved enough product to buy a 2-3 year old used one and keep it another 4-6 years.

If I had FU money I'd lease one as a daily and have a GT3 for the weekends. But that's just too much.

I feel like the G80 is a high water ICE mark and having experienced the Tesla and driven a lot of Taycans, I like what I see but I have plenty of driving years left and didn't want to miss out on this golden age of ICE.

[SaMaster14]

Real world, unless the M3 driver is "locked in" the Model 3 performance will probably jump from the start with instant torque, but the M3 will catch it.

Regardless of straight line speed, absolutely nothing else of the Tesla is enticing to me. Extremely cheap materials, uncomfortable ride (just about every Uber "comfort" in LA is a model 3 of some kind), horrible ergonomics, and bad quality control.

If I were going electric, I'd absolutely go BMW, Audi, or Porsche at this point, no questions asked.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by SaMaster14

Real world, unless the M3 driver is "locked in" the Model 3 performance will probably jump from the start with instant torque, but the M3 will catch it.

Regardless of straight line speed, absolutely nothing else of the Tesla is enticing to me. Extremely cheap materials, uncomfortable ride (just about every Uber "comfort" in LA is a model 3 of some kind), horrible ergonomics, and bad quality control.

If I were going electric, I'd absolutely go BMW, Audi, or Porsche at this point, no questions asked.

The M3 wouldn't catch the Model 3 Performance until over 100 MPH, IMO. The acceleration is pretty relentless up to about 70-80 then it tapers.

I overlooked the cheap materials because it was SUCH a good commuter car. I had a 90 mile / day round trip in some pretty bad traffic (I know Houston is not LA but it's pretty bad). And the EV plus the active cruise / autosteer REALLY lowered my stress level. And at that time, there was nothing comparable.

In the end the ride was one of the three main issues that killed it for me. The ride SUCKS. SO, SO bad. The other two were just general instability of the company / product / leader and absolutely horrendous service.

[Jackie Chiles]

I traded my 2017 F87 M2 for a Tesla M3Perf. Not enamored with the M2.

The M3P was a revelation with the huge amount of instantaneous, massive torque. but I had too many issues with the car such as phantom braking, intermittent power, loss, low range, poor service, etc. And the suspension is very, very soft.

Traded the Tesla in for an M4CX. All around, the BMW is a far superior car. Better service network, well appointed, feels almost as fast up to 60 and then kicks ass above that, and is a much, much better handling car that is a huge amount of fun to drive in almost all situations.

[Diesel power]

Tesla's are one trick ponies. If someone's definition of performance is quickest 0-60 (or 30-70) in virtually any condition than the Tesla takes it hands down. Other than that the M3 is a better all around car.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Diesel power

Tesla's are one trick ponies. If someone's definition of performance is quickest 0-60 (or 30-70) in virtually any condition than the Tesla takes it hands down. Other than that the M3 is a better all around car.

Ehhh, performance wise, yes, speed is all they have going. They can't turn or stop worth a damn.

But as a car? I'd say it's got a lot more going for it. It's a very, very good EV and has excellent software, much of which makes your day a lot easier.

But unfortunately some of it also makes your day harder (wipers, voice commands, intermittent connectivity, etc) so you take the good the bad. it's frustrating. If every idea they had on that car just worked right, it would be a killer package. It doesn't need to be an m3. Fit a half decent suspension, fix the connectivity with a better modem, put on an IR wiper sensor, put some decent brakes on it and add a bit of lateral bolstering and I'd buy another. Not as a replacement to an M3. But vs. a 340i? Would be an interesting comparison.

[Diesel power]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Ehhh, performance wise, yes, speed is all they have going. They can't turn or stop worth a damn.

But as a car? I'd say it's got a lot more going for it. It's a very, very good EV and has excellent software, much of which makes your day a lot easier.

But unfortunately some of it also makes your day harder (wipers, voice commands, intermittent connectivity, etc) so you take the good the bad. it's frustrating. If every idea they had on that car just worked right, it would be a killer package. It doesn't need to be an m3. Fit a half decent suspension, fix the connectivity with a better modem, put on an IR wiper sensor, put some decent brakes on it and add a bit of lateral bolstering and I'd buy another. Not as a replacement to an M3. But vs. a 340i? Would be an interesting comparison.

I've only had Tesla's as rentals so some of the tech may just take some getting used to, but so much of the UI/ Experience seems to be different for the sake of being different or cost cutting dressed up as innovation (i.e. getting rid of as many buttons, knobs, stalks as possible).I get how someone who has driven Honda's Toyota's, etc would be blown away by the tech implementation and performance, but I don't think it stacks up to my Audi's, BMW's. I'll give them kudos for their willingness to take risks, and tackle some of the big things that other companies still haven't gotten right (Charging, OTA updates, some aspects of self driving). On the other hand I think we need to be honest about what they don't do well, which is Ride and Handling, Braking, User Interface, Quality control, Customer Service, Safety, etc.
I'm admittedly biased because my wife and I were exploring EV's for her next SUV and after a few minutes in the Tesla gallery we ended up at Audi buying a new E-Tron. It's not as fast as a Y or X, but it's a MUCH better all around vehicle (the screaming deal didn't hurt either).

[SaMaster14]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

The M3 wouldn't catch the Model 3 Performance until over 100 MPH, IMO. The acceleration is pretty relentless up to about 70-80 then it tapers.

I overlooked the cheap materials because it was SUCH a good commuter car. I had a 90 mile / day round trip in some pretty bad traffic (I know Houston is not LA but it's pretty bad). And the EV plus the active cruise / autosteer REALLY lowered my stress level. And at that time, there was nothing comparable.

In the end the ride was one of the three main issues that killed it for me. The ride SUCKS. SO, SO bad. The other two were just general instability of the company / product / leader and absolutely horrendous service.

That’s probably right if the G80x isn’t using launch control/pseudo launch control and the model 3 launches first.

To your last points though, that’s why I just can’t jump on the Tesla bandwagon (not counting the fact they are literally every other car on the road in LA). Honestly don’t know, but how does range/charge affect performance of these? I hear horror stories of some of the EV trucks trying to tow and losing ⅓ of their range immediately.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Diesel power

I've only had Tesla's as rentals so some of the tech may just take some getting used to, but so much of the UI/ Experience seems to be different for the sake of being different or cost cutting dressed up as innovation (i.e. getting rid of as many buttons, knobs, stalks as possible).I get how someone who has driven Honda's Toyota's, etc would be blown away by the tech implementation and performance, but I don't think it stacks up to my Audi's, BMW's. I'll give them kudos for their willingness to take risks, and tackle some of the big things that other companies still haven't gotten right (Charging, OTA updates, some aspects of self driving). On the other hand I think we need to be honest about what they don't do well, which is Ride and Handling, Braking, User Interface, Quality control, Customer Service, Safety, etc.
I'm admittedly biased because my wife and I were exploring EV's for her next SUV and after a few minutes in the Tesla gallery we ended up at Audi buying a new E-Tron. It's not as fast as a Y or X, but it's a MUCH better all around vehicle (the screaming deal didn't hurt either).

The UI is polarizing. But honestly aside from the wipers, most everything runs on auto so you don't need to touch it. There's not a lot to do / adjust in the car and I'm not one of those people that's constantly farting with the climate controls. Just set on auto and tap the temp up or down a few degrees if needed. But everying is very intuitively laid out, 10 minutes after owning the car you can do everything without thinking about it. It's very snappy and responsive.

Originally Posted by SaMaster14

Honestly don’t know, but how does range/charge affect performance of these? I hear horror stories of some of the EV trucks trying to tow and losing ⅓ of their range immediately.

Different for every EV. Depends on how you aggressively they manage thermals, how they buffer the battery, etc. But I never noticed significant degradation until below maybe 30% of the battery.

The towing thing is different. I mean, when you tow in an ICE vehicle, your MPG takes a similar hit, no? Wouldn't an ICE 1/2 ton truck go from maybe 17 MPG down to 9 or 10? Except in that truck, you have a 25 plus gallon fuel tank and can refill in 5-10 minutes, anywhere. In an EV you have, essentially a 4 gallon gas tank (literally the 131 kW usable battery in an Extended range F150 lightning holds the same amount of energy as a bit less than 4 gallons of gas. So if your MPGe goes from 80 to 40 you're going to feel it. But it'll still pull hard even at low state of charge. But you need to fill, often.