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      04-08-2021, 10:07 AM   #1
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Drive Shaft. M3 and M4 - explained, Episode 18

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      04-08-2021, 10:35 AM   #2
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I can't make the link to how a particulate filter has anything to do with the driveshaft. Can someone explain it to me like I'm 5?
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      04-08-2021, 10:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonahk View Post
I can't make the link to how a particulate filter has anything to do with the driveshaft. Can someone explain it to me like I'm 5?
I think its a size issue. Like it wouldnt fit with a larger diameter driveshaft.
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      04-08-2021, 10:43 AM   #4
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So THAT was the cause of the driveshaft recall on my F82? ...in the U.S.?

Couldn't the filter just be relocated/reshaped instead of having to reengineer the whole drive shaft?
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      04-08-2021, 11:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
So THAT was the cause of the driveshaft recall on my F82? ...in the U.S.?

Couldn't the filter just be relocated/reshaped instead of having to reengineer the whole drive shaft?
Well I guess they thought about it and didn't have any other option rather than changing the driveshaft.
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      04-08-2021, 12:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Scorp!on View Post
Well I guess they thought about it and didn't have any other option rather than changing the driveshaft.
I suppose with as compact as everything is down there, that was the easiest option to change to make room. Can you imagine the reactions to the engineer who had to propose that idea?
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      04-08-2021, 01:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
I suppose with as compact as everything is down there, that was the easiest option to change to make room. Can you imagine the reactions to the engineer who had to propose that idea?

In a case like this I think every business takes the decision based on the same parameters:
least cost option

So yes as you say it, it was the easiest way to make room otherwise they would have had to rearrange too much.

too bad....by the way, they didn't produce the M3 anymore in EU because it was not worth to adapt it, the M4 on the other hand was worth it because of the sales number and fitted it with the OPF.
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      04-08-2021, 01:42 PM   #8
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Regulations ruining everything as usual.
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      04-08-2021, 03:35 PM   #9
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Glad this was explained for the CFRP crybabies.
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      04-08-2021, 03:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Glad this was explained for the CFRP crybabies.
well I also would prefer the CFRP

But the regulations are what they are...

also he mentioned they wouldn't save any weight with the new 50mm diameter, did I get this right ? I mean when done in CFRP.
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      04-08-2021, 03:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
So THAT was the cause of the driveshaft recall on my F82? ...in the U.S.?

Couldn't the filter just be relocated/reshaped instead of having to reengineer the whole drive shaft?
No, that was because of a manufacturing issue. BMW doesn't have to add emissions equipment on cars that are already on the road. That would be dumb.
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      04-08-2021, 03:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorp!on View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Glad this was explained for the CFRP crybabies.
well I also would prefer the CFRP

But the regulations are what they are...

also he mentioned they wouldn't save any weight with the new 50mm diameter, did I get this right ? I mean when done in CFRP.
Yeah. The CFRP would need to be too thick at 50mm, so there really weren't any weight savings going that route.
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      04-08-2021, 03:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorp!on View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
I suppose with as compact as everything is down there, that was the easiest option to change to make room. Can you imagine the reactions to the engineer who had to propose that idea?

In a case like this I think every business takes the decision based on the same parameters:
least cost option

So yes as you say it, it was the easiest way to make room otherwise they would have had to rearrange too much.

too bad....by the way, they didn't produce the M3 anymore in EU because it was not worth to adapt it, the M4 on the other hand was worth it because of the sales number and fitted it with the OPF.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm a skeptic. The EOP for the F80 was known before the first one was even built. And it was known that the F82/83 would continue production for at least an additional year from F80 EOP. Same thing happened with the E90 vs E92/93 as well.

Also, AFAIK, the F80 m3 sold in EUR did indeed transition to a non-CF driveshaft and added the OPF for a few months right before F80 EOP.
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      04-08-2021, 03:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm a skeptic. The EOP for the F80 was known before the first one was even built. And it was known that the F82/83 would continue production for at least an additional year from F80 EOP. Same thing happened with the E90 vs E92/93 as well.

Also, AFAIK, the F80 m3 sold in EUR did indeed transition to a non-CF driveshaft and added the OPF for a few months right before F80 EOP.
Ok then maybe I confused something, I got told from several BMW Employees that the F80 was dismissed because they weren't able to meet the new regulations as for the F82 they adapted whatever was needed.
I thought it was the OPF.

Sorry if I got something wrong here.
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      04-08-2021, 04:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorp!on View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
I suppose with as compact as everything is down there, that was the easiest option to change to make room. Can you imagine the reactions to the engineer who had to propose that idea?

In a case like this I think every business takes the decision based on the same parameters:
least cost option

So yes as you say it, it was the easiest way to make room otherwise they would have had to rearrange too much.

too bad....by the way, they didn't produce the M3 anymore in EU because it was not worth to adapt it, the M4 on the other hand was worth it because of the sales number and fitted it with the OPF.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm a skeptic. The EOP for the F80 was known before the first one was even built. And it was known that the F82/83 would continue production for at least an additional year from F80 EOP. Same thing happened with the E90 vs E92/93 as well.

Also, AFAIK, the F80 m3 sold in EUR did indeed transition to a non-CF driveshaft and added the OPF for a few months right before F80 EOP.
The U.S. transitioned to a steel driveshaft as well.
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      04-08-2021, 04:19 PM   #16
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Forget the CFRP part...the "crash" serration bit is interesting...I have a suspicion that the level of force required to trigger that chain reaction might just also happen when the car is tuned and there's a ton of torque heading down the driveshaft...crank hub 2.0?
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      04-08-2021, 04:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorp!on View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
I suppose with as compact as everything is down there, that was the easiest option to change to make room. Can you imagine the reactions to the engineer who had to propose that idea?

In a case like this I think every business takes the decision based on the same parameters:
least cost option

So yes as you say it, it was the easiest way to make room otherwise they would have had to rearrange too much.

too bad....by the way, they didn't produce the M3 anymore in EU because it was not worth to adapt it, the M4 on the other hand was worth it because of the sales number and fitted it with the OPF.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm a skeptic. The EOP for the F80 was known before the first one was even built. And it was known that the F82/83 would continue production for at least an additional year from F80 EOP. Same thing happened with the E90 vs E92/93 as well.

Also, AFAIK, the F80 m3 sold in EUR did indeed transition to a non-CF driveshaft and added the OPF for a few months right before F80 EOP.
No, the F80 in Europe did not have a steel driveshaft. They stopped production of Euro models just as the WLTP and OPF regulations kicked in. This was March 2018. Many other models were affected, for example, the 6MT in 340i was slashed as the B58 got OPF and they didn't see much sense in certifying cars nearing their production life (Euro F80) or cars that weren't selling (manual Euro B58s).

Around that time, BMW also had to stop selling M Performance exhausts and Power and Sound Kits. They now cannot sell those in EEA markets. Sound regulations have also gotten stricter.
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      04-08-2021, 04:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorp!on View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
I suppose with as compact as everything is down there, that was the easiest option to change to make room. Can you imagine the reactions to the engineer who had to propose that idea?

In a case like this I think every business takes the decision based on the same parameters:
least cost option

So yes as you say it, it was the easiest way to make room otherwise they would have had to rearrange too much.

too bad....by the way, they didn't produce the M3 anymore in EU because it was not worth to adapt it, the M4 on the other hand was worth it because of the sales number and fitted it with the OPF.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm a skeptic. The EOP for the F80 was known before the first one was even built. And it was known that the F82/83 would continue production for at least an additional year from F80 EOP. Same thing happened with the E90 vs E92/93 as well.

Also, AFAIK, the F80 m3 sold in EUR did indeed transition to a non-CF driveshaft and added the OPF for a few months right before F80 EOP.
The U.S. transitioned to a steel driveshaft as well.
See, I've heard that too, but to this day I do not believe we've ever seen a USDM F80 that was actually delivered with the steel driveshaft.

Happy to be proven wrong, I just must have missed it if that's the case.
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      04-08-2021, 04:38 PM   #19
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Great video........see what you could have had

Rule #1 in marketing - if something is worse or in any way negative on the new model STFU about it.
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      04-08-2021, 04:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F8SEVEN View Post
Forget the CFRP part...the "crash" serration bit is interesting...I have a suspicion that the level of force required to trigger that chain reaction might just also happen when the car is tuned and there's a ton of torque heading down the driveshaft...crank hub 2.0?
I'm pretty sure the seratiom is axial not radial. In case of a head on collision the driveshaft can collapse instead of becoming a spear...
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      04-08-2021, 04:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Great video........see what you could have had

Rule #1 in marketing - if something is worse or in any way negative on the new model STFU about it.
Rule # 1 when the public perception of a technical downgrade is negative is to explain what caused this. Especially when it's a change that has been forced on you by external circumstances.

What is said in this video is basically; "We at BMW M would have loved to give you the CFRP driveshaft, but unfortunately regulation changes has made that practically Impossible. We evaluated every possible solution to achieve this, but in the end it came out with no advantages over the steel shaft".
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      04-08-2021, 04:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F8SEVEN View Post
Forget the CFRP part...the "crash" serration bit is interesting...I have a suspicion that the level of force required to trigger that chain reaction might just also happen when the car is tuned and there's a ton of torque heading down the driveshaft...crank hub 2.0?
That thought crossed my mind, but I'm sure it's strictly designed to give under impact force vs. rotational force.
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