01-25-2021, 02:10 PM | #67 | ||
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The m4 comp is £76K base and £92K with all the options. for a 4 series....... The 992 might be down in pure power terms but since when did that alone make a car good to drive? The 911 as a driving tool will be hands down Better, and better engineered. And more desirable and hold its value better and not look like it fell out the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
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01-25-2021, 03:14 PM | #68 | |
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But interesting how you compare a fully loaded M4 with a not fully loaded 992, makes totally sense. And how do you know how the M4 will drive? have you tried it yet? and everything else is just speculation, you don't know if and how these cars will hold their value. So in the end all you do is compare like crap and assume something without knowing. Awesome! |
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01-25-2021, 03:54 PM | #69 | ||
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01-25-2021, 04:25 PM | #70 | |
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I said in the UK you have different prices than in CH and that is a fact. I actually checked the UK prices before my last post and yes you are right, but still the car has nothing in it and you compare it with a FULL loaded M4. (just an example...carbon roof ist standard on the M4, Porsche not). So you basically compare apples with bananas. Of course the Porsche is a ultimate driver car, nobody is EVER going to say something else but you can say what you want it is a total different price range! The only one in the price range of the M3/M4 (at least in Switzerland) is the Cayman GT4. And I don't have to tell you the practicality of this car... you don't have to like the new M3/M4 on how they look. Jesus even the driving feeling is a thing of taste and subjective but the price may be "high" but in the segment where BMW is the competitors are on the same level. And the competitors are Mercedes, Audi etc. and not Porsche. Porsche is a complete different world. In the end you get a lot of bang for bucks with BMW. That's how the car industrie is going on and if you want 500BHP and all the little gadgets and plaything and adaptive suspension etc. etc. etc. you pay this price, no matter which brand. |
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01-25-2021, 04:39 PM | #71 |
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Personnaly I would opt for M2 or jump to 911 instead of an M4 but I'm trying to find an alternative to the M3 that is capable of withstanding track abuse and carry a child in the back and fun to drive.. no competitor as all these attributes in balanced way like the M3.
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01-25-2021, 04:41 PM | #72 | ||
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The price is the same, you said it yourself and it's published information to within 1 or 2 thousand pounds in the uk, glad you agree with me. the m4 is a 3 door sports car with relative practicality, and 4 seats - same as the 992 then, the comparison is strikingly similar. Which begs the comparison and why I chose that car in my initial response. An m4 is a track focused sports car, you don't by an m4 for tech, or gadgets, you could just get a fully loaded 5 series if that was the case. You by it to DRIVE, the Porsche is the ultimate drivers car (your words) and Porsche is in a league above BMW, (again your words). So, in your words the 911 is a better sports car AND you agree they cost the same? Maybe you should give up proving my exact points for me and bore off. Remember arguing on the internet is like gold at the special olympics, even if you win it's still retarded.
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01-25-2021, 04:44 PM | #73 | |
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Whatever makes you happy. I'm out of this discussion. |
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01-25-2021, 05:07 PM | #74 |
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01-25-2021, 07:57 PM | #75 |
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Lol you can't compare a zero options 911 (they barely even give you a steering wheel) to a MAX optioned M4. Compare zero options to zero options if you must and there will be a huge price gap and you get far FAR more usable equipment on the base M4.
If you want to talk used 911 vs new M4 then you're speaking a possibly reasonable argument but otherwise quiet down. |
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01-26-2021, 02:24 AM | #76 | |
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We'll see again comparison between apple vs oranges, new vs used, base model vs top of the range, zero options vs full equipped and so on Haters never give up |
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01-26-2021, 03:44 AM | #77 |
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Ok I've made clear comparisons between the cars which you can ignore, I'd take a 992 with zero options over that panda-pig any day That's my opinion sorry if you don't agree.
My point all along is that a base 992 will DRIVE better than the new m4 so as a performance / sports car with 4 seat it will drive better, ignoring all the tech and Options bells and whistles you lot seem to love, we know both Porsche and BMW are terrible for this. I love BMW's and own and have owned half a dozen myself but I won't blindly support a brand that has lost its way so badly in terms of design aesthetics and driving dynamics. People can Bury their heads, I never in fact said the 911 had to be brand new of course the second hand market and approved used markets provide even more options, but the fact that you can buy a BASE 992 for the same money as a "fully loaded" m4 is still shocking to me. The 718 GTS is cheaper than the BASE M4 (although it's a two seater) so you could make a case their if you didn't need 4 seats, and it won't have a massive pig snout slapped on the front. If you need to justify the huge expense of buying an ugly, overpriced & overweight car that won't drive as well for other things in that price range then go ahead, just don't expect people not to disagree.
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01-26-2021, 04:06 AM | #78 |
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Maybe the UK market is another story, but it's only one market.
In Switzerland (where I live) and in Italy (where I come from) the market is different, the price gap between a 992 S and an M4 is huge (I mean new vs new, same options and with the maximum discount possible), around 45k chf/40k eur. The base 992 (385hp...) is still more expensive than the M4, and it's slower than an M2. I mean 150k eur/165k (992S) chf vs 110k eur/120k chf (M4C). To pay a 911 as much as a brand new M4 you need to buy an used 991.2 GTS. Are we really comparing apples with apples? The 911 is BY FAR a better car, and you have to pay for that "more". |
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01-26-2021, 04:24 AM | #79 |
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I agree markets are different, but here's a uk example of an approved used 2019 992 with 5K miles, it's got decent options for £91,000.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...02010014429977 I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't pick this over a new m4, which in the uk has a fully optioned list price of £90K + In the UK the new m3 & m4 are overpriced (as are many AMG & RS products), so much so that they push up against premium brands like Porsche, which creates comparisons, yes these are different cars and people have a thousand different reasons for buy a car, I was specifically referring to pure driving dynamics (not just power figures). Of course BMW generally offer dealer contributions and a huge proportion of people get the cars on finance but the m3 & 4 are in high demand / short supply right now ahead of launch so I believe there is no price reduction from the dealers here in the UK. It's just an insane amount of money to me compared to what you can get elsewhere, irrespective of the looks don't you think?
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01-26-2021, 05:03 AM | #80 |
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It does not make sense.
For the same reason, a brand new 992 S is too expensive compared to a used Ferrari 488 GTB, which is much better than the Porsche. Just as it is useless to buy a brand new 440i instead of a used M4 and so on. I would never, ever buy a used car, I want a car just for me, the way I want it (color, wheels, options etc.), I want to be the first to drive it, breathe in it and fart in it. |
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01-26-2021, 08:00 AM | #81 | |
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01-26-2021, 08:05 AM | #82 |
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At 6 feet I can sit in relative comfort in the back of my M2 and an M4. Not in a 911
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01-26-2021, 08:11 AM | #83 |
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I could afford a 911 personally but I got two kids, I hate having two cars and I want one car that I use to go to work, holidays and once per month to the track. There are barely any cars that can do this combination of activities.
Why are we comparing different things? Want a cheaper car that probably drives better than a 911? Get an Alpine A110. It's crazy fun and has 0 practicality. |
01-26-2021, 11:34 AM | #84 | ||
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I haven't mentioned the Alpina b3 bi-turbo as an M3 alternative as yet that's the real elephant in the room for the new one. Alpina showing Bmw that a fast beautifully driving 3 series doesn't have to be fugly.
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01-26-2021, 02:31 PM | #85 | |
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The closest Porsche comparison to an ~$85KUSD loaded M3/4 X-Drive competition in terms of overall power and performance will be the base $122KUSD Carrera 4S. The 100-200kmh top end acceleration (the truest measure of power and acceleration) for the 4700lbs BMW X3M Comp on the German Autobahn in 10.14s and the 992 Carrera does it in 10.18s. So in terms of top end, the base 992 has the same performance as an X3M. The G8X is going to weight about 700lbs less with better aerodynamics, so the same powertrain should easily be in the 8's for 100-200kmh which would be in league with the 992C4S. All that aside, there should be no argument that the true direct German competitors to this car in terms of chassis configuration, powertrain, drivetrain, driving dynamics and overall use scenario are the C63S (front engine multipurpose track/daily driver platform, similar power/weight/price no AWD) and the RS5 (front engine multipurpose track/daily driver platform, similar weight/price/AWD but down on power). The 992, like all cars in the rear engine class, would arguably not be considered a true daily driver due to lack of rear seating and poor interior/small frunk utility space. APPLES AND ORANGES... GTFO WITH YOUR COMPLETELY INANE COMPARISON, I NEED TO GO TAKE A TYLENOL. Last edited by Giggler; 01-26-2021 at 03:32 PM.. |
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01-26-2021, 03:41 PM | #86 |
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They should rename this place to Bimmer&PorschePost
Page 1 - discussion about the car Hits the front page Page 2 - grille moaners Page 3 - Porsche wankers How is a second hand Porsche that's way into its warranty even a comparison to a brand new M4. The mental gymnastics people do on this forum. You can split the grille moaners into 3 categories - 1. People that can afford a Porsche and for some reason have to keep telling us all they are getting one instead (no one cares FYI to you). 2. People that can't afford a Porsche and need to compare second hand or poverty spec models to a fully loaded M4/M3. 3. Miserable people that need to moan and argue instead of accepting and moving on. My theory is they don't like change, which is what the new M3 and M4 is, so they go to a nice safe option of a Porsche, which has not and probably never will change its design. Go buy a Porsche if you can't accept the new design, the grille is not changing and we won't miss you here. I truly hope you love whatever car you get instead and it makes you happy, just stop trying to suck the joy out of everyone that loves the design and direction of the new G8X models, some of us love it and love talking to others about it without the constant rhetoric in every damn thread
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01-26-2021, 04:38 PM | #87 | |
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The G8x looks like a mishmash of a Lexus and a Mustang with a BMW and I wouldn't call this timeless/evolution. It's not like there are many driving reviews out there of the G8x so that we can have other (non looks related) discussions. Before you all come at me with pitchforks, if I had the money, I'd have a F82 GTS and a GT3RS in my garage.
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