[AhsanU]

Originally Posted by Mike02z

No bump which makes sense. The manual can’t support the tq from the Comp.

Lmao, what absolute drivel and nonsense. Please don't post things like this and present it as fact - it isn't. The stock clutch on the 6MT can handle well north of 500wtq, which is far more than the Comp models make in stock guise. BMW simply wants to sell more Comp models because they're charging more for it and there's less wear 'n tear on an automatic vs. manual so less visits from clients at their service centres, so they've fed this narrative of "the 6MT makes less power because it can't handle the torque!" so more gullible people buy the Comp models. Nothing against the ZF8/Comp models, but BMW has deliberately detuned the base model just to sell fewer of them. This is the same reason why they refuse to make version of the 6MT with AWD - more people would buy it and less profits for them vs people buying Comp xDrive versions.

I was on the most aggressive map on RaceChip and had no clutch slip issues. I was also on an OTS bootmod3 map with no clutch slip issues (10-15k miles in). It wasn't until I was pushing close to 600wtq on a custom map where my clutch started to slip, so please - stop peddling BMW's bs.

Edit: I'll concede that more power will shorten the life of the stock clutch, but making the same power as the Comp models wouldn't constitute a night and day difference in terms of miles. It's purely for marketing and $$$ reasons.

[Mike02z]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

Lmao, what absolute drivel and nonsense. Please don't post things like this and present it as fact - it isn't. The stock clutch on the 6MT can handle well north of 500wtq, which is far more than the Comp models make in stock guise. BMW simply wants to sell more Comp models because they're charging more for it and there's less wear 'n tear on an automatic vs. manual so less visits from clients at their service centres, so they've fed this narrative of "the 6MT makes less power because it can't handle the torque!" so more gullible people buy the Comp models. Nothing against the ZF8/Comp models, but BMW has deliberately detuned the base model just to sell fewer of them. This is the same reason why they refuse to make version of the 6MT with AWD - more people would buy it and less profits for them vs people buying Comp xDrive versions.

I was on the most aggressive map on RaceChip and had no clutch slip issues. I was also on an OTS bootmod3 map with no clutch slip issues (10-15k miles in). It wasn't until I was pushing close to 600wtq on a custom map where my clutch started to slip, so please - stop peddling BMW's bs.

Edit: I'll concede that more power will shorten the life of the stock clutch, but making the same power as the Comp models wouldn't constitute a night and day difference in terms of miles. It's purely for marketing and $$$ reasons.

You may be right. My data comes from a lot of what I read here. Multiple threads where people say this and when I was looking my SA told me the same thing. If you have harder data I stand corrected.

[AhsanU]

Originally Posted by Mike02z

You may be right. My data comes from a lot of what I read here. Multiple threads where people say this and when I was looking my SA told me the same thing. If you have harder data I stand corrected.

The proof is BMW themselves. They built the M3 3.0 CSL with 553bhp and the same ZF procured manual transmission found on the base G80 M3.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

The proof is BMW themselves. They built the M3 3.0 CSL with 553bhp and the same ZF procured manual transmission found on the base G80 M3

Wow, hey tough guy - it’s the torque figure as OP said. You’re quoting HP now which is not the limiting factor for the 6MT. The manual may be able to handle more torque than ~406 lb-ft, but for how long? The 3.0 CSL still has the lower torque figure similar to the base G80/82.

[AhsanU]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Wow, hey tough guy - it’s the torque figure as OP said. You’re quoting HP now which is not the limiting factor for the 6MT. The manual may be able to handle more torque than 406-407 ft-lb, but for how long? The 3.0 CSL still has the lower torque figure similar to the base G80/82.

I would not be surprised in the slightest if BMW sandbagged the torque number, an advertised 406lb ft, just to save face with 6MT owners. I'd love to see a 3.0 CSL put on a dyno for verification purposes. I also cannot imagine an extra 30-40lb ft of torque at the peak will mean that the clutch will start slipping at 50k miles vs. 100k miles with 407lb ft. Maybe a few thousand miles? It's impossible to say with certainty, but it's extremely unlikely to cause issues at a significantly earlier milage amount.

But if the boost pressure goes up, as it clearly has on the S58 found in the 3.0 CSL, it's very likely that torque figures go up too. The only way to know for sure is with a dyno of the two cars on the same day, which will probably never happen. But given the fact that no one's slipping on a RaceChip Map 7/JB4 on 93 fuel, to my knowledge, means the stock clutch can handle far more than BMW's thrown at it.

Again, BMW can claim that they've decreased power/torque for longevity reasons, but it's not the primary reason why they did it and anyone that understands the fact that BMW is beholden to its shareholders should understand that.

[Bimmerfun82]

Fair enough. But I don’t claim to know or to understand why they did it. What I will say is I like the torque figure on my base M3. I wouldn’t mind a bit more HP especially at higher RPMs so it feels like it’s accelerating to red line. But I’m not complaining - it’s a great engine and thoroughly quick enough for me. The comp is insane and suitable for destroying a track time.

[meechy6ix0]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

I would not be surprised in the slightest if BMW sandbagged the torque number, an advertised 406lb ft, just to save face with 6MT owners. I'd love to see a 3.0 CSL put on a dyno for verification purposes. I also cannot imagine an extra 30-40lb ft of torque at the peak will mean that the clutch will start slipping at 50k miles vs. 100k miles with 407lb ft. Maybe a few thousand miles? It's impossible to say with certainty, but it's extremely unlikely to cause issues at a significantly earlier milage amount.

But if the boost pressure goes up, as it clearly has on the S58 found in the 3.0 CSL, it's very likely that torque figures go up too. The only way to know for sure is with a dyno of the two cars on the same day, which will probably never happen. But given the fact that no one's slipping on a RaceChip Map 7/JB4 on 93 fuel, to my knowledge, means the stock clutch can handle far more than BMW's thrown at it.

Again, BMW can claim that they've decreased power/torque for longevity reasons, but it's not the primary reason why they did it and anyone that understands the fact that BMW is beholden to its shareholders should understand that.

Plenty of modified cars run higher power figures without issue. However, this doesn’t mean that BMW is gimping the manual. ZF rates the the GS6-53BZ at 600nm/443lb-ft. As an OEM that provides a warranty, I would argue they made the right move by limiting tq for both the manual and the 3.0 CSL.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by meechy6ix0

Plenty of modified cars run higher power figures without issue. However, this doesn’t mean that BMW is gimping the manual. ZF rates the the GS6-53BZ at 600nm/443lb-ft. As an OEM that provides a warranty, I would argue they made the right move by limiting tq for both the manual and the 3.0 CSL.

Very sensible

[utsteve98]

If the claim is the manual can’t handle the torque then maybe they need a better manual. I don’t buy the argument since the CT5-BW comes with 650+ HP and TQ and still has a 6 speed manual.

[Jim B]

Originally Posted by utsteve98

If the claim is the manual can’t handle the torque then maybe they need a better manual. I don’t buy the argument since the CT5-BW comes with 650+ HP and TQ and still has a 6 speed manual.

The Black Wing and the Mustang Dark Horse both use Tremec 6MT transmissions. BMW should too, then they wouldn't have that problem of handling the torque. It's one of the best manual transmissions out there.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

F80 was a hot mess.

It really was. If a car was ever a spaz, it’s the F80. I do miss mine.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

The proof is BMW themselves. They built the M3 3.0 CSL with 553bhp and the same ZF procured manual transmission found on the base G80 M3.

And I have read repeatedly that BMW mandates the clutch in the CSL 3.0 needs replacing every X 10k miles. Not sure if that is an urban legend, but I would be cautious when comparing the ultra small series 3.0 CSL with the base M3. It could also be that BMW just priced in warranty clutch replacements into the 3.0.CSL's MSRP.

[MT6]

Originally Posted by Jim B

The Black Wing and the Mustang Dark Horse both use Tremec 6MT transmissions. BMW should too, then they wouldn't have that problem of handling the torque. It's one of the best manual transmissions out there.

Yes that’s what I have been saying BMW should source Tremec MT.

If Tremec was a European establishment BMW would have been working with them like they do with ZF

[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

The proof is BMW themselves. They built the M3 3.0 CSL with 553bhp and the same ZF procured manual transmission found on the base G80 M3.

And how much torque does the M3 3.0 CSL make? 406 lb ft, same as the base M3.

As you say, the proof is BMW themeless. The manual transmission cannot reliably handle extra torque.

[randomserious]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Curious, have you driven a G series car? Have you tracked a G series car? I can assure you that you are completely wrong on the the objective items here.
1. Compliance, if you're talking about suspension compliance, you are 10000% off base here. The G series cars are light years beyond what you get in previous M cars in terms of performance & compliance on the suspension side. They are comfortable enough to drive all day and absolutely kill it on a race track. I've had a G82 with two wheels on the rumble strips at 120+ going into corners. Simply put, outside of a Porsche GT car, Z06 Vette, and a Viper, there's very few cars that can have that compliance on track, yet you can cross country a G8X without a hiccup.
2. Handling is top notch. Again, either street or track, the G8X cars deliver more than any other BMW I've ever driven. Car stays flat and inspires confidence when you're pushing it. Again, this is a street car first that you can track and not a track car that you can drive on the street, AKA any Viper.
3. Feedback through the wheel is great, sure in some modes it is artificial but it's not like you don't know what the wheels are doing. I've driven cars that lack any sort of feedback and its disconcerting, there's plenty of feedback in these cars.
4. Better braking system? I thought the braking on these cars would be crap with the rear being a floating single piston caliper, boy was I dead wrong. If you ever take one on the track, you'll know that if you stand on the brakes, these cars stop, like right now. Can't get better braking, hell you can even get ceramic brakes for fade free fun, if you have the budget for it.
5. Light weight wheels? I don't really know of any car that offers super light weight wheels. The 1000M forged wheels are fairly light weight for their size. Hell, I went with Apex VS-5RS and it was only $3K out the door. Super cheap.
6. The overall design is subjective.

If you get the chance, drive one on the street and on the track, it will blow you away.

sold, sign me up for a MY25

[speedmaster20d]

I agree the new headlights are a tough sell. does anyone know if you can install the older laser headlights? If it is coded it might be hard or even physically not possible.

[milehighguy]

I myself am trying to figure out if I wait a few months for a 2025 G80 allocation or submit a 2024 build right now. My lease is up in May.

So far I am seeing a 20HP bump and new headlights. Anyone know if we will be getting the new tails that are on the 2025 G82 as well? I also see the 2025 G82 will be getting idrive 8.5 which is in my wife’s 2024 X5 and it’s awesome.

[drkenng]

Originally Posted by milehighguy

I myself am trying to figure out if I wait a few months for a 2025 G80 allocation or submit a 2024 build right now. My lease is up in May.

So far I am seeing a 20HP bump and new headlights. Anyone know if we will be getting the new tails that are on the 2025 G82 as well? I also see the 2025 G82 will be getting idrive 8.5 which is in my wife’s 2024 X5 and it’s awesome.

my guess is the M3 won't get the laser CSL style taillights
and that it will get iDrive 8.5.
not thrilled about the headlights, but it looks like all the new 5-series have plain LED's
I've passed on 2 2024 allocations and hearing that you like 8.5 might make it worthwhile.
at least I'll get to drive my '18 'vert for one more summer.

[BIGW0RM]

Im not feeling the 25 front lights at all. But I want that 25HP. Ugh. Im tempted to jump back to a 911. BMW is just all over the place looks wise these days.