[AUSf22]

Originally Posted by Game

No true car guy puts just springs on their car IMO. Go coilovers or leave it alone.

Could not agree more, it's pretty common knowledge now that putting a set of lowering springs to non matching shocks actually makes the car drive worse!

[MFNATIK]

Who wants to bet that the G80 won't be released with the tombstone grilles? I have a feeling BMW is gonna backpedal even before its launched and just go with a redesigned 3 series front?

Also, I am noticing the CF *roof is gone?

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by Montaver

6 interesting minutes on engineering and driving driving dynamics... and all people on this forum can talk about is the front grill. Sigh.

This is exactly why bad/poor design detracts from excellent engineering and chassis tuning. Someone at BMW fucked up and it wasn't the engineers.

[2000Z3M]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

This is exactly why bad/poor design detracts from excellent engineering and chassis tuning. Someone at BMW fucked up and it wasn't the engineers.

well they did say they are taking away steering feel

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

This is exactly why bad/poor design detracts from excellent engineering and chassis tuning. Someone at BMW fucked up and it wasn't the engineers.

The engineers will definitely f*** it up. They literally said they engineered out steering feel in the video.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by solstice

The steering feedback ship has sailed long time ago. EPS in current designs just isn’t capable of it. No, not even Porsche’s.

With that in mind I’m not really concerned about the statement above. I’m more curious to see how it has evolved into a better tool for performance driving. Same story as the ship for NA type of engines have sailed with all the glory they are capable of and now it’s no longer about comparing the FI engines to them but to see how the FI engines evolve and improve on their strengths.

The friction feedback elimination is nevertheless disturbing in historic context...

When the 991 was released a lot of people disliked it's EPS compared to the hydraulic system in previous 911s. Porsche put out a statement saying how they wanted to eliminate "negative feedback" from the road, things that cause pull drift/tramlining, while maintaining "positive feedback." This "negative feedback" is what we enthusiasts enjoy, but according to Porsche this makes it more difficult for the car to drive quickly. Fair point I suppose.

However, Porsche's EPS is still more naturally weighted and feedback-providing than any EPS-equipped BMW I have driven. There's not loads of feedback, but there is some depending on the road surface. Its not like it's hurting sales on their bread-and-butter Macan/Cayenne which sell overwhelmingly to badge seekers.

It's just disappointing that BMW won't at least try to replicate Porsche's approach to EPS. Fine, BMW steering doesn't have to be as stiff and full of road feedback as it used to be to appease the badge seekers and people with noodle arms who don't even lift, but it shouldn't be Audi/Merc/Lexus levels of boring!

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

When the 991 was released a lot of people disliked it's EPS compared to the hydraulic system in previous 911s. Porsche put out a statement saying how they wanted to eliminate "negative feedback" from the road, things that cause pull drift/tramlining, while maintaining "positive feedback." This "negative feedback" is what we enthusiasts enjoy, but according to Porsche this makes it more difficult for the car to drive quickly. Fair point I suppose.

However, Porsche's EPS is still more naturally weighted and feedback-providing than any EPS-equipped BMW I have driven. There's not loads of feedback, but there is some depending on the road surface. Its not like it's hurting sales on their bread-and-butter Macan/Cayenne which sell overwhelmingly to badge seekers.

It's just disappointing that BMW won't at least try to replicate Porsche's approach to EPS. Fine, BMW steering doesn't have to be as stiff and full of road feedback as it used to be to appease the badge seekers and people with noodle arms who don't even lift, but it shouldn't be Audi/Merc/Lexus levels of boring!

BMW EPS is just not good despite a decade of use, even my Mercedes has better steering than any of my newer BMW's and that is from a brand who is prided on making quiet and comfortable cars for retirees, even my son's Mazda 6 and his wife's CX-9, a three row FWD based crossover, have better steering than most BMW's.

Best steering right now that I've driven is Porsche GT Cars (991.2 GT3, 981 GT4), Chevy Camaro/Cadillac ATS-V, Mustang GT350 and Alfa Giulia in my opinion.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Stubborn and obviously out of the loop.

The grieving process starts with denial, and everyone moves at their own pace. You can see all five stages in this thread.

But, hey, this is a “safe space“ right? We won’t judge. That doesn’t mean there’s no accountability however, so I’ll politely remind everybody to go easy on the anger stage. Maybe take it off line, hit the heavy bag.

[eman4517]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The grieving process starts with denial, and everyone moves at their own pace. You can see all five stages in this thread.

But, hey, this is a "safe space" right? We won't judge. That doesn't mean there's no accountability however, so I'll politely remind everybody to go easy on the anger stage. Maybe take it off line, hit the heavy bag.

Well said. It's amazing how some people just lose their minds when anyone shares a view that is different than theirs. It's a forum for Pete's sake! lol

fo·rum:
a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

I guess then 90% of us are stubborn and out of the loop because we share a different view. Good grief. Can't wait for this reveal to put this thing to bed already. Anything is possible so let's keep an open mind. Hardliners might be eating crow later.

[SabineBimmer]

I picture the lead designers in a similar situation when designing the new grille. Idiots...

https://www.theonion.com/concept-car...w-w-1819578561

[V-Eight]

can't wait to see it into reality....and if'll have the normal g20 grill.......I only say:

SHUT UP & TAKE MY MONEY :-D

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Who wants to bet that the G80 won't be released with the tombstone grilles? I have a feeling BMW is gonna backpedal even before its launched and just go with a redesigned 3 series front?

Also, I am noticing the CF *roof is gone?

I'll take that bet alllllllll day. You already owe me In & Out. Why not up the ante?!?

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by V-Eight

can't wait to see it into reality....and if'll have the normal g20 grill.......I only say:

SHUT UP & TAKE MY MONEY :-D

Maybe they'll put the G20 front on the M-Xdrive automatics, and the big G22-like front on the RWD 6MT, just to see who really buys those cars for sheer driving pleasure.

[Loma]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Maybe they'll put the G20 front on the M-Xdrive automatics, and the big G22-like front on the RWD 6MT, just to see who really buys those cars for sheer driving pleasure.

There are easier and less expensive ways to find it out.

[V-Eight]

Or maybe, they'll put the M4 front into the CS version?

In my opinion, if they'll put the normal G20 grille, they'll make the goal.

And looking at what they're already doing....the X5M and X6M doesn't have the same front. So why going on with this stupid decision only into the M3/4?

I would prefer more "differences" also between and M3 and an M4. If somebody choose a 3 series, is beacause of some reasons, I don't want to have an M3....with an M4 maquillage. For me, it doesn't work at all; whre's all the differentiation they're trying to make us accept makineg them identical...again?

So, please BMW, put onto the M3 the normal G20 grille thank you.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Considering the saloon starts production first, it would make logical sense the coupe follows the sedan design attributes. Not the other way.

Is the G22 really that much wider than the G20? Probably not enough for that to be the reasoning.

Not like the M version has ever shared its non-M brethren's bumpers.

Like I've said before, the M3 is the "M version" of the 3 series. It's shouldn't be taking it's design cues from the 4-series. Before it was no big deal. Now, it's a pretty big deal with the design language. Now if I want an M3, I have to buy an M4 with 2 extra doors.

... I think it's in BMW's interests as well to not make it easy to swap nose/read bumper cover with ease from M series onto entry 3/4...

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Stubborn and obviously out of the loop.

Horribly out of the loop and thinking he is wise beyond belief. Ahh, to be young.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by del82

Personally speaking I can't see the M3 front end and grill being fundamentally different to the G20 - exception being the usual M trinkets and styling. It would be far too costly to have a completely different under skin front end just for the M3.

M4 will copy the 4 series front end with the grill and M3 will be 'normal' sized grill is what I expect. This is in line with the mantra of having the 4 series different to the 3 series rather than the 4 being a 2 version of the 3 series like previous.

We'll soon find out I guess!

M3 is solidified to have the new larger grill language

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Also, while we're on this topic - everyone who has been commenting that the huge grilles must be important for airflow does realize that the middle of the grilles is blocked off by the front crash beam, right? Even the G20 3 series' grilles are partially fake towards the top because they're far larger than they actually need to be.

For reference....

[IB M]

Does it require restating here on page 8 - The car is way more visually appealing with the grill as per the test mule in the video than with the 4 series fish mouth / pig nose grill. C'este la vie as the French say.

[AUSf22]

We will find out within the next two months people! official reveal shouldn't be too far away since they are giving us all these teasers.

It will be interesting to see how much quicker the M Xdrive variant will be compared to its 2WD counterpart.

[AD18]

I'd like to see them find a more real world representation of a "bumpy road". Its no wonder now why everything M comes out super stiff. Most of us would dream to call that a 'bad road'.