[Mani59]

Join Carwow as they put every generation of M3 up against a drag race.

Go E30!

[Davil]

E46 really gets off the line!

https://youtu.be/xtx6SY-0bUQ

[bri1042]

Nice treat for Saturday morning coffee and Youtube time.

[pbonsalb]

E46 probably had the most experienced driver. E90 needs some mods—I had one for 10 years and was not impressed in stock form but with all the bolt on mods and a tune it woke up. Turbo is where it’s at for small displacement performance in a mid weight car. The F80 with its balance of power and weight was impressive but tune the G80 and use an AWD version and it would dominate.

[ASAP]

The G80 is conveniently RWD and has the worst driver...

F80 still does real well though... that turbo engine era really just takes things to the next level here.

Or the G80 just isn't as fast as folks say... I think the DCT helps the F80 gets out of the hole real well here.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The G80 is conveniently RWD and has the worst driver...

F80 still does real well though... that turbo engine era really just takes things to the next level here.

Or the G80 just isn't as fast as folks say... I think the DCT helps the F80 gets out of the hole real well here.

Actually, the G80 is a lot faster than everyone said or thought. The more they mess with that engine the faster they make it. Definitely a different league than its predecessors.

I never really understood why so many BMW enthusiasts like BMWs DCT. I think it sucks. Or better yet just inferior. You better carry a bottle of Advil with you when using it. If you want to see, a real smooth bad ass dual clutch in operation drive a Porsche. It’s not even close to the same. Remarkably superior. I’ll take BMW’s Z8 over their DCT any day of the week. There’s a reason why BMW didn’t carry their DCT to the G80 series and it’s not because the Z8 is cheaper like so many on this forum try to say.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Actually, the G80 is a lot faster than everyone said or thought. The more they mess with that engine the faster they make it. Definitely a different league than its predecessors.

I never really understood why so many BMW enthusiasts like BMWs DCT. I think it sucks. Or better yet just inferior. You better carry a bottle of Advil with you when using it. If you want to see, a real smooth bad ass dual clutch in operation drive a Porsche. It’s not even close to the same. Remarkably superior. I’ll take BMW’s Z8 over their DCT any day of the week. There’s a reason why BMW didn’t carry their DCT to the G80 series and it’s not because the Z8 is cheaper like so many on this forum try to say.

You can't compare modified cars... stock is stock which is what this is... and either no one can drive the G80 or the F80 is just really fast.

As far as DCT... I think the DCT is clunky and has smoothness issues but it's phenomenally involving and fast... its just a joy to bang the gears with that tranny. In the ZF8, I just don't get the same excitement... also the Zf8 has that weird jerk forward hesistation when shifting whearas the DCT has the jerk backward which makes it feel far more sporty... again, I think the Zf8 is real fun but it doesn't come close in terms of sheer fun or responsiveness to the DCT.... this is my only complaint about the G80.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ASAP

You can't compare modified cars... stock is stock which is what this is... and either no one can drive the G80 or the F80 is just really fast.

As far as DCT... I think the DCT is clunky and has smoothness issues but it's phenomenal involving and fast... its just a joy to bang the gears with that tranny. In the ZF8, I just don't get the same excitement... also the Zf8 has that weird jerk forward hesistation when shifting whearas the DCT has the jerk backward which makes it feel far more sport... again, I think the Zf8 is real fun but it doesn't come close in terms of sheer fun or responsiveness to the DCT.

I’m talking about stock F80 vs G80 compared to one another. They really aren’t even close. I’ve owned both.

As far as the DCT goes, I dislike it for the exact reasons you say you like it. I don’t need to get jerked around in a car. Owning a turbo S shows you how DCT really should be. Try one out sometime and you’ll see what I mean. In the meanwhile, when dealing with BMW , I will definitely take the smoother and slightly faster Z8.

Having said all that, I understand your reasons for like the DCT in the F80 and respect them. We all like things different. :-)

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I’m talking about stock F80 vs G80 compared to one another. They really aren’t even close. I’ve owned both.

As far as the DCT goes, I dislike it for the exact reasons you say you like it. I don’t need to get jerked around in a car. Owning a turbo S shows you how DCT really should be. Try one out sometime and you’ll see what I mean. In the meanwhile, when dealing with BMW , I will definitely take the smoother and slightly faster Z8.

Having said all that, I understand your reasons for like the DCT in the F80 and respect them. We all like things different. :-)

I will add, I don't have any experience with Porsche DCTs but I do with Audi DCTs. They are tuned so smoothly, that it honestly makes me questions why they even use a DCT as opposed to a traditional auto. There is no involvement, the shifts are not responsive and not really all that fast... that would be a perfect example of a poor usage of a DCT.

[///MPhatic]

But which one is more fun to flip around on the weekend?

E30

[Tacoma]

Interesting. The F80 was reputed to have launch problem due to wheel spinning but it looks like it got off to the best start in all the races but not surprisingly the G80 eventually reeled it in due to hp advantage. The AWD G80 would have cleaned house (except for the brake test), but it is a fair match to have all cars RWD for proper comparison.

I'm surprised the E90 did so poorly. The E46 was able to get off the line faster than the E90 probably due to weight and because the V8 requires high revs to reach its peak hp.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I will add, I don't have any experience with Porsche DCTs but I do with Audi DCTs. They are tuned so smoothly, that it honestly makes me questions why they even use a DCT as opposed to a traditional auto. There is no involvement, the shifts are not responsive and not really all that fast... that would be a perfect example of a poor usage of a DCT.

Porsche is extremely smooth also. It’s like a symphony.

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

But which one is more fun to flip around on the weekend?

E30

For me, it would be the fastest most agile vehicle with the most options. But that’s just me. Lots of people here in Florida driving around in vintage cars though. They seem to love them.

On a sidenote, is that Roundel in your avatar real? if so, can you tell me about it in a PM please?

[RugbyBro]

Porsche PDK is really great but it’s not this massive leap forward that the internet makes it out to be. It’s quick, smooth, and does a better imitation of a planetary transmission than MDCT and that’s it. Under load MDCT is just as responsive and has a lot more raw shift feel. And yes I’ve driven a few iterations of PDK - including the newer 8spd in a 992 Turbo and I would not consider that transmission as a MDCT killer. The only discernible difference to me is PDK having a smoother, more clutch slipped feel and MDCT having a more raw, racy feel. If all you do is around town driving then sure PDK is smoother. Under significant load? They’re in the same class. Different strokes for different folks.

People talk down BMW and MDCT and fall back on P cars as a catch-all justification like it’s the second coming; it’s really not. My opinion only.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Interesting. The F80 was reputed to have launch problem due to wheel spinning but it looks like it got off to the best start in all the races but not surprisingly the G80 eventually reeled it in due to hp advantage. The AWD G80 would have cleaned house (except for the brake test), but it is a fair match to have all cars RWD for proper comparison.

I'm surprised the E90 did so poorly. The E46 was able to get off the line faster than the E90 probably due to weight and because the V8 requires high revs to reach its peak hp.

The E46 to E90 weight increase was really significant, about the same increase as the E30 to E36. I still would have expected it to do better based on the published 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of both cars, but both of them are also pretty old so I guess it's possible that those particular examples aged differently. That E92 could be down more power than some other E92, for example.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Patton250

For me, it would be the fastest most agile vehicle with the most options.

The fastest is never the most agile, nor does it have the most options. That's the thing with performance, you must pick your poison. Then when you find the quickest, and the fastest you find that neither are the most fun.

Originally Posted by Patton250

On a sidenote, is that Roundel in your avatar real? if so, can you tell me about it in a PM please?

https://bimmerplug.com/products/bmw-...em-roundel-set

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Porsche PDK is really great but it’s not this massive leap forward that the internet makes it out to be. It’s quick, smooth, and does a better imitation of a planetary transmission than MDCT and that’s it. Under load MDCT is just as responsive and has a lot more raw shift feel. And yes I’ve driven a few iterations of PDK - including the newer 8spd in a 992 Turbo and I would not consider that transmission as a MDCT killer. The only discernible difference to me is PDK having a smoother, more clutch slipped feel and MDCT having a more raw, racy feel. If all you do is around town driving then sure PDK is smoother. Under significant load? They’re in the same class. Different strokes for different folks.

People talk down BMW and MDCT and fall back on P cars as a catch-all justification like it’s the second coming; it’s really not. My opinion only.

I’m not talking down BMW. I’m just telling you in my opinion it’s a lot rougher. I’ve driven both extensively and they are mind boggling worlds apart. But then again I am not a BMW lifelong enthusiast. I’m being objective here. I’m not saying you are not I’m just saying in my detailed experience, the differences are stark and compelling. Also, the F80 was $63,000 basic (if I remember)and the turbo s is $210,000 basic. You would expect it to be at least 2 1/2 times better. I think that’s probably a good estimate.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

The fastest is never the most agile, nor does it have the most options. That's the thing with performance, you must pick your poison. Then when you find the quickest, and the fastest you find that neither are the most fun.



https://bimmerplug.com/products/bmw-...em-roundel-set

I’ve never seen them go up against each other, but I bet the G 80 would beat the F 80 on a track. Including being in rear wheel drive. If I turn out to be wrong, I absolutely will admit it.

Brother, thank you for the link. I appreciate that.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I’ve never seen them go up against each other, but I bet the G 80 would beat the F 80 on a track. Including being in rear wheel drive. If I turn out to be wrong, I absolutely will admit it.

That would depend on the track.

And again, preference would depend on what you value most; the experience or the number.

Many of todays cars produce good numbers, but not so good driving experiences. It's due in large part to manufacturers thinking that they can give people everything in one package, but they can't. The heavier the car, the worse the driving experience.

For reference, this is my other car, it's under 1900 lbs, and the experience will easily outshine a G anything.

City of Gold. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

That would depend on the track.

And again, preference would depend on what you value most; the experience or the number.

Many of todays cars produce good numbers, but not so good driving experiences. It's due in large part to manufacturers thinking that they can give people everything in one package, but they can't. The heavier the car, the worse the driving experience.

For reference, this is my other car, it's under 1900 lbs, and the experience will easily outshine a G anything.

City of Gold. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

I agree with everything you just wrote and in my experience, the G80 drives significantly better than the F80. I’m pretty sure that was the hopes of BMW as well. I would think they would hope that for every new generation of vehicle that people find it better driving and a better experience. Otherwise they would be going backwards. The problem with the G80 is it wouldn’t matter if it was the best driving car in the history of the planet because lifelong BMW enthusiasts want every front grille, on every model, every year to look the exact same and the G80 doesn’t. They’ve never been able to get over that. So obviously, the drive experience is inferior to the previous generation with the correct front grille.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I’m not talking down BMW. I’m just telling you in my opinion it’s a lot rougher. I’ve driven both extensively and they are mind boggling worlds apart. But then again I am not a BMW lifelong enthusiast. I’m being objective here. I’m not saying you are not I’m just saying in my detailed experience, the differences are stark and compelling. Also, the F80 was $63,000 basic (if I remember)and the turbo s is $210,000 basic. You would expect it to be at least 2 1/2 times better. I think that’s probably a good estimate.

Yah I’ll be clear in saying that overall I feel that PDK is the better box all things considered. Day to day is much more refined. My point is only that when driving hard, they’re both in the same league of speed and responsiveness. I really like the sensory thump on track but the car only does that if your tires are pointed straight - under lateral load it’s PDK smooth. I find that dailying MDCT in S1 is not rough at all but I also never drive it automatically and can appreciate that not everyone does that. My personal order overall would be PDK > MDCT > ZF8.

[Forzanerazzurri]

E46 FTW.

[Laurie100uk]

How can the f80 be faster off the line that the g80? Its meant to be slower 0-60 surely