[vetteflier]

Doing research on the Falkens, the consensus is they are much more oriented to summer ultra performance tires than true "all season," but better in the rain. A couple of reviews even said they handled better in the dry than P Zeros. That, of course, is just opinion. I would be interested in seeing the difference in launch between performance biased A/S and regular summer. In a straight line, I would not expect much difference. The tread pattern and sidewall stiffness should yield similar results, assuming they are properly warmed up.

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

Doing research on the Falkens, the consensus is they are much more oriented to summer ultra performance tires than true "all season," but better in the rain. A couple of reviews even said they handled better in the dry than P Zeros. That, of course, is just opinion. I would be interested in seeing the difference in launch between performance biased A/S and regular summer. In a straight line, I would not expect much difference. The tread pattern and sidewall stiffness should yield similar results, assuming they are properly warmed up.

This. So much this. This is the review I would love to see! Been searching for this answer for a while now.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by Reprosal

I am still trying to find out how much difference there is using xdrive launch control with all seasons vs. pure summers.

Sent you a PM. You're going to see a difference between performance all seasons and dedicated performance summer tires in launch control. The summers are just stickier because the compound doesn't have to adjust for "winter" temperatures like an all season does. It is what it is. It's probably not enough to discourage you from getting them if that's why you want but again it's just physics and limitations of the compound of an all season tire.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

Im not arguing what tire is better. That's all subjective opinion. Im simply saying that between the two brands. I have found that Michelins last much longer, fit better and look better.

And like most other members here, I am just daily driving. I am not pushing the limits of my tires as it is. So its not like there is this SUPER drastic change in feel. Most wouldn't even tell a difference. And then there is p zero rubbing issues with lowered G80.

So to me, there are four things that make the Pzero not liked by me.

1.) I cant tell a difference between the two with how I drive
2.) When lowered, Pzero rub, Michelins dont.
3.) Michelins have always last longer for me.
4.) P zero buldges out a lot. Looks like nascar tire. Michelins look much nicer on the front wheels.

So for me, I dont like Pzero even if the Hypercars use them. But whatever. You like what you want and I will like what I want and who cares?

Understood. The Michelins do make sense for you then. I'm just used to the forum bashing on the Pzeros and spewing complete nonsense about tire lotteries with no evidence, and clearly no knowledge of the tire market.

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Sent you a PM. You're going to see a difference between performance all seasons and dedicated performance summer tires in launch control. The summers are just stickier because the compound doesn't have to adjust for "winter" temperatures like an all season does. It is what it is. It's probably not enough to discourage you from getting them if that's why you want but again it's just physics and limitations of the compound of an all season tire.

Thank you so much for the response. I really appreciate it! I think I will stick with summers/winters for now but just change them out in the fringe seasons a bit earlier.

[Limegrntaln]

BMW Specs tires specifically for this car. The brands are Michelin, Pirelli, Continental, and Yokohama. Save yourself, and order a proper tire for the car. BMW specs winter tires for this chassis. This will keep you from creating another post, asking why your drivetrain failed, and now BMW is shit.

BMW identifies their tires with a Star on the sidewall. You will see, when you order tires from places like Tire Rack, they designate if the tires are Star marked, or not. Falken, UniRoyal, Firestone, Dunlop, arent on the list. Go out to your car, and look at the OEM tires that came on the car, and you will see the Star. Fit the other brands on this chassis at your own risk.

[vetteflier]

Goodyear isn't on the "approved" list either. I doubt anyone can criticize their reputation in high performance cars. I have never seen Yokos on a BMW, but understand they are now an OEM supplier. I have no concern about a failing drivetrain with Goodyears, Dunlops, Firestone, Falken or Kumho. Porsche has an "NO" I believe that is like the BMW star. A friend with a Turbo S tossed (sold) the OEM Goodyears (which are not OEM for BMW as you note) originals and put Generals on it--also non-BMW, but excellent tires. He consistently wins SCCA runs with them. So, while I would not put questionable tires on any performance car, I have no concerns whatsoever with Falkens on the M4C, and look forward to driving in sunny but cold conditions--and a 50,000 mile treadwear guarantee. Lose a little grip? I can live with that.

[vetteflier]

Just an update: had tires mounted today by Discount--only one I'd use. Great ride, no vibration, did not notice a difference in grip at all. Only pita was getting the tire system in the M4 to recycle. Had a warning light until 3rd recycle of ignition. You need to change the tire type to Winter/All Season from summer. Then drive a while to get the pressures. I did the change twice, cycled the ignition 3 times--could see the pressure was reading fine, and all set now. Very happy with A/S decision.

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

Just an update: had tires mounted today by Discount--only one I'd use. Great ride, no vibration, did not notice a difference in grip at all. Only pita was getting the tire system in the M4 to recycle. Had a warning light until 3rd recycle of ignition. You need to change the tire type to Winter/All Season from summer. Then drive a while to get the pressures. I did the change twice, cycled the ignition 3 times--could see the pressure was reading fine, and all set now. Very happy with A/S decision.

Do you hook up just fine from 0 pedal to the floor?

[vetteflier]

Originally Posted by Reprosal

Do you hook up just fine from 0 pedal to the floor?

There is tire spin, but there was also with the P Zeros. Haven't launched it yet, but doing that--with stability and traction control off, the car goes side to side for awhile after launch with the Pirellis and I would expect about the same with the Falkens. Kind of fun...You do have to screw around with the TPMS after getting new tires, as I said. But, sets correctly after a few restarts once you update tire settings. Other than that, looking forward to taking it out after the snow we're getting tonight goes away.

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

There is tire spin, but there was also with the P Zeros. Haven't launched it yet, but doing that--with stability and traction control off, the car goes side to side for awhile after launch with the Pirellis and I would expect about the same with the Falkens. Kind of fun...You do have to screw around with the TPMS after getting new tires, as I said. But, sets correctly after a few restarts once you update tire settings. Other than that, looking forward to taking it out after the snow we're getting tonight goes away.

Are you RWD?

[vetteflier]

Originally Posted by Reprosal

Are you RWD?

Yes, but probably will go AWD on next one. Speed only, never would drive in sloppy conditions.

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

Yes, but probably will go AWD on next one. Speed only, never would drive in sloppy conditions.

I am AWD. I think all seasons would grip from 0 in AWD mode.

[vetteflier]

I agree. Whatever loss in RWD would be made up for by the fronts gripping. Excepting the low ground clearance, an AWD M3 would be the ideal daily driver. The M4 would too, if you only have small kids for the back seat. Keep everything in efficient, respect braking distances on slippery roads, and you'd be good for ~ 3-4 inches of snow. Ice? Forget it in any car.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Physics. You can't have long wear and grip. It's a ratio. The Pzeros are a better performing tire than the Michelins because they are softer. They also have stiffer sidewalls which is why they tend to offer a better steering feel. As a consequence they probably wear out a bit faster. I don't know how I can make that any more clear. Maybe you should get some Pimacys or something that last 60,000 miles.

Also, please don't Google ps4s peeling or Pilot Sport peeling. You wouldn't want to be informed about how shit Michelin tires can really be.

As you can see with my snip of the best All Seasons vs the best Summers Tire Rack test you really are not giving up that much if any grip and you gain x2 wear. So for example I would pick the Goodyears as I have had a great time with those on my last car and you can have them for $1000 for a full set or $900 with all the CC rebates.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by Allerum

As you can see with my snip of the best All Seasons vs the best Summers Tire Rack test you really are not giving up that much if any grip and you gain x2 wear. So for example I would pick the Goodyears as I have had a great time with those on my last car and you can have them for $1000 for a full set or $900 with all the CC rebates.

Thanks for the info. So my question to you is, why do the summers wear at twice the rate? Do the all seasons just defy the laws of physics and offer a harder, longer wearing compound with immaterial differences in grip and performance?

The extra grip you have with a dedicated summer tire is why they wear twice as fast. These charts seem to ague that there is a paradox here where the energy from the 2x wear rate is somehow lost into the ether.

If this is true then perhaps for most people an all season probably makes more sense for their daily.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Thanks for the info. So my question to you is, why do the summers wear at twice the rate? Do the all seasons just defy the laws of physics and offer a harder, longer wearing compound with immaterial differences in grip and performance?

The extra grip you have with a dedicated summer tire is why they wear twice as fast. These charts seem to ague that there is a paradox here where the energy from the 2x wear rate is somehow lost into the ether.

If this is true then perhaps for most people an all season probably makes more sense for their daily.

There is still a valid performance delta there, but its 6 feet shorter stopping and .3 more on the skidpad. I believe its exponential, to get that last little bit of performance sacrifices the wear and weather capabilities.

[vetteflier]

As I said, I'll give up .2 of a G on the skidpad for 50,000 tread wear warranty and the ability to drive in dry but cold (<40) weather. As to 2X the wear, I would have gotten maybe 7500 on the right rear, and 1000-1500 more on the left. The fronts were good for probably 10-11,000. I expect the Falken A/S will last LONG after I trade the car in. From the research I did, the sidewalls are unusually stiff and the tread surface somewhat softer than other Ultra High Performance All Seasons. And the price was right. Whether they make sense is an individual decision, of course. They do for me and I had always planned on getting them for my next set--just not so soon.

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

I agree. Whatever loss in RWD would be made up for by the fronts gripping. Excepting the low ground clearance, an AWD M3 would be the ideal daily driver. The M4 would too, if you only have small kids for the back seat. Keep everything in efficient, respect braking distances on slippery roads, and you'd be good for ~ 3-4 inches of snow. Ice? Forget it in any car.

I plan on A/S for longetivity and sudden temp changes (living in SK Canada) and a dedicated winter set. I plan on daily driving it 365. No front lip for me!

[vetteflier]

Just an update: took it out on my normal backroads. No difference that I noticed. Going around 25MPH (suggested) curves at 65, launch control, or simply punching it at various speeds. On a track or skidpad--neither of which I do, maybe some diminished cornering speed would be noticed. But on straights or constant and gently decreasing radius turns, feels the same.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

Just an update: took it out on my normal backroads. No difference that I noticed. Going around 25MPH (suggested) curves at 65, launch control, or simply punching it at various speeds. On a track or skidpad—neither of which I do, maybe some diminished cornering speed would be noticed. But on straights or constant and gently decreasing radius turns, feels the same.

It's only at the edge of physics is is possible to notice. Maybe in some rain but really it's overblown on the "sacrifice" you give up. And you gain some snow traction.

[It's Oz]

Originally Posted by vetteflier

Just an update: took it out on my normal backroads. No difference that I noticed. Going around 25MPH (suggested) curves at 65, launch control, or simply punching it at various speeds. On a track or skidpad--neither of which I do, maybe some diminished cornering speed would be noticed. But on straights or constant and gently decreasing radius turns, feels the same.

Came across this thread because I’m in the same boat as you. What’s your latest update on the A/S Falkens? Also, which all seasons did you go with?