[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

Didn't they say a manual CS or CSL was going to debut for the enthusiasts? Nothing wrong with the auto though!

Hand bulit manual M4 not for the US market. Might have the P58 engine. Search the other threads. Rumor has it priced at € 600,000 and already sold out.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Hegge

You may want to get a 911 GT3 assuming you can get an allocation. High end sports cars are not going to have a manual because manual is slower. Porsche RS cars, etc.

Yeah understand the manual is slower - doesn't have to be the absolute fastest car for me. Looking at this car from a pure enjoyment standpoint for me - and in this one in particular I feel like I would enjoy the 6spd more than the ZF. Will not be my fastest track car anyways - and will not track the CSL very often anyways.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Yeah understand the manual is slower - doesn't have to be the absolute fastest car for me. Looking at this car from a pure enjoyment standpoint for me - and in this one in particular I feel like I would enjoy the 6spd more than the ZF. Will not be my fastest track car anyways - and will not track the CSL very often anyways.

I agree so much but it is what it is, they just won't build a 6MT over 450hp

[M3EATERS]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Winglets revealed/teased now on the exterior too.

Hoping that this is not a sticker. It looks tacky

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by M3EATERS

Hoping that this is not a sticker. It looks tacky

Of course it's a sticker because it's lighter

[The_Werm]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I agree so much but it is what it is, they just won't build a 6MT over 450hp

They used to…

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by The_Werm

They used to…

That damn M5 Manual is going to keep kreeping up for a long time

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

So there's going to be a M3 and M4 CS but just a M4 CSL?

Not much point to a 4-door with rear seat delete…

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I agree so much but it is what it is, they just won't build a 6MT over 450hp

I thought I read it was torque not HP that limited the use of manual gearbox

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I thought I read it was torque not HP that limited the use of manual gearbox

You are right. The limit is 550Nm, which is already pushing it. Originally, the tranny was designed for 450Nm.

[Laguna01///M3]

Originally Posted by Jason

Updated May 15, 2022

Official teaser image of the M4 CSL seats, with backlit CSL lettering.

Attachment 2884761

Attachment 2884762

Jeez, the stitching is terrible!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Erebor

You are right. The limit is 550Nm, which is already pushing it. Originally, the tranny was designed for 450Nm.

True torque is the limiting factor, not power, but the 6MT F10 M5 that used a predecessor to this gearbox had 500lb-ft / 678N-m...

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

True torque is the limiting factor, not power, but the 6MT F10 M5 that used a predecessor to this gearbox had 500lb-ft / 678N-m...

I am almost certain the M5 used the GS6-53BZ, which was the larger and more durable gearbox than the GS6-45BZ used in the G8x and also F8x.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Erebor

I am almost certain the M5 used the GS6-53BZ, which was the larger and more durable gearbox than the GS6-45BZ used in the G8x and also F8x.

I don't imagine there would be any reason why the 53BZ couldn't be used here; in fact, I'm wondering if that is what they ended up using with the GTH Hommage-50

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I don't imagine there would be any reason why the 53BZ couldn't be used here; in fact, I'm wondering if that is what they ended up using with the GTH Hommage-50

It's an out of date gearbox and they don't use it anymore. But i suppose they will find something adequate for their 600k limited car.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Erebor

It's an out of date gearbox and they don't use it anymore. But i suppose they will find something adequate for their 600k limited car.

Is it possible they'd detune the S58 to the point where the torque isn't as high as it is with the CSL? I guess not having the X-Drive might also be more than a weight-saving measure

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Is it possible they'd detune the S58 to the point where the torque isn't as high as it is with the CSL? I guess not having the X-Drive might also be more than a weight-saving measure

That is definitely possible. You can go 550 HP with 550Nm of torque easily.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Erebor

That is definitely possible. You can go 550 HP with 550Nm of torque easily.

Case in point, the new Porsche 911 Sport Classic, 600N-m and 550hp.

However, making 550hp with 550N-m would require the power to be reached at ~7,100rpm. I am not sure the S58 as it stands is capable of that, it would likely require different turbos.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Case in point, the new Porsche 911 Sport Classic, 600N-m and 550hp

BMW is just so efficient at making money, no interest investing for a very small % of there buyer basis. Porsche is some sort of an in-between, not the exotic manufacturer but clearly more specialized than BMW, they tailor there offer way more precisely to all there buyer base.

It's a shame BMW doesn't want to lose a bit of margin and offer more variety (500+HP 6mt cars) because there new G series are just sooo good. I went to drive the M4 last night with my brother-in-law and we were totally blown away how good this car has become. I've only rode in GT3's on track and never test drove a 992 on the street but I'm sure the gap is a lot closer that it as ever been.

At first I was like you and taught the new G8x was too expensive and not worth its asking price but I've now changed my opinion, yes it's a good chunk more expensive than the F series but the value is there.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PLF69

BMW is just so efficient at making money, no interest investing for a very small % of there buyer basis. Porsche is some sort of an in-between, not the exotic manufacturer but clearly more specialized than BMW, they tailor there offer way more precisely to all there buyer base.

It's a shame BMW doesn't want to lose a bit of margin and offer more variety (500+HP 6mt cars) because there new G series are just sooo good. I went to drive the M4 last night with my brother-in-law and we were totally blown away how good this car has become. I've only rode in GT3's on track and never test drove a 992 on the street but I'm sure the gap is a lot closer that it as ever been.

At first I was like you and taught the new G8x was too expensive and not worth its asking price but I've now changed my opinion, yes it's a good chunk more expensive than the F series but the value is there.

To be fair, the Sport Classic will be a 250k USD low volume car and Porsche capped the torque of the 3.7L "turbo" engine at 442lb-ft (600Nm) to Carrera levels, which is the limit of their current 7MT. They did not develop a bespoke gearbox, even for that rather expensive unicorn.

My point was to support the point that it is possible to tune turbo engines with lower torque and good top end power.

I still do not like the G8X in general. There are just too many individual elements that turn me off about it. But I am eager to see the performance of the CSL, I think it will be a hell of a beast.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My point was to support the point that it is possible to tune turbo engines with lower torque and good top end power.

I actually really like this, I love the more motorsports feeling of the S58 (more linear) vs the stoplight stomper B58.

I often get caught up deblataring about cars but it's time I actually take a real world ride in Porsches.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I actually really like this, I love the more motorsports feeling of the S58 (more linear) vs the stoplight stomper B58.

I often get caught up deblataring about cars but it's time I actually take a real world ride in Porsches.

I do all of the Virages and BMW club Quebec events at LCMT. I can give you a ride if you ever attend one